• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Are you in favor of a sugar tax in your city?

Are you in favor of a Sugar Tax in your city?

  • Total voters
    84
Geoist said:
I see no problem with it when those life choices become costly to the taxpayers.
Click to expand...

Nice gig, isn't it?

1) Put the taxpayer on the hook for medicine.

2) Claim that cost to the taxpayers is sufficient cause to control what people do.
 
KevinKohler said:
I agree, but don't tax the process...tax the result. Tax fat people and diabetics.
Click to expand...

Lol, well I know you are being sarcastic to make a point, but there are many reasons, both ethical and legal, why 'taxing the result' would be problematic. Pigovian taxes are at least straight-forward.

But I do find it fascinating how some people will tolerate the taxation of labor/fruits of labor while freaking out over sin taxes.
 
Geoist said:
I see no problem with it when those life choices become costly to the taxpayers.
Click to expand...

This is completely ridiculous and completely unamerican and anti-freedom. Where does it end? If parents have disorders and have a kid with a disorder, should they be punished for their choices? What about all those obese people? What about alcohol? What about fried foods? What about caffiene? What about everything.

And really, the argument along the lines of "I don't want my taxes to go towards this or that" is complete bull****, because people's taxes are a pittance of the government spending, and people get far more in benefits from the government (law and order, justice, defense, roads, infrastructure, etc) than they put in.

And many times the people that make such a claim want to force people to pay for bogus wars that do nothing but kill and destroy, or allow corporations to exploit people across the world
 
Harshaw said:
Nice gig, isn't it?

1) Put the taxpayer on the hook for medicine.

2) Claim that cost to the taxpayers is sufficient cause to control what people do.
Click to expand...

Are you proposing an end to Medicare? Insurance companies? Good luck with that. This is why I left the right-libertarian movement, completely unrealistic and impractical ideas.
 
Last edited:
Sampson Simpson said:
This is completely ridiculous and completely unamerican and anti-freedom.
Click to expand...

But you'll go ahead and continue putting up with the income tax like a good American, right?


Where does it end? If parents have disorders and have a kid with a disorder, should they be punished for their choices?
Click to expand...

Talk about apples and oranges. :roll:

What about all those obese people? What about alcohol? What about fried foods? What about caffiene? What about everything.
Click to expand...

Most people become obese because of life choices, so...

Alcohol is already taxed more, as it should.

We are not seeing a health crisis over caffeine. Apples and oranges, once again.

And really, the argument along the lines of "I don't want my taxes to go towards this or that" is complete bull****, because people's taxes are a pittance of the government spending, and people get far more in benefits from the government (law and order, justice, defense, roads, infrastructure, etc) than they put in.
Click to expand...

I am not making an argument against taxes or government spending. I am making an argument in favor of a type of tax over other taxes. You guys go along with taxing labor and productivity... things that benefit society... yet freak out over taxing the things that are costly to society. It is utter hypocrisy.


And many times the people that make such a claim want to force people to pay for bogus wars that do nothing but kill and destroy, or allow corporations to exploit people across the world
Click to expand...

I am about as anti-war as they come.
 
Geoist said:
Lol, well I know you are being sarcastic to make a point, but there are many reasons, both ethical and legal, why 'taxing the result' would be problematic. Pigovian taxes are at least straight-forward.

But I do find it fascinating how some people will tolerate the taxation of labor/fruits of labor while freaking out over sin taxes.
Click to expand...


I accept that government is a necessary evil. I accept that people don't want to work for free, even government employees. And last, I accept that not enough people will voluntarily give enough to fund said government. So, yeah....you can tax my labor. My property value. You're already taxing my beer, that battle was lost. But for gods sake, let me enjoy a root beer in peace!
 
KevinKohler said:
I accept that government is a necessary evil. I accept that people don't want to work for free, even government employees. And last, I accept that not enough people will voluntarily give enough to fund said government. So, yeah....you can tax my labor. My property value. You're already taxing my beer, that battle was lost. But for gods sake, let me enjoy a root beer in peace!
Click to expand...

So you are fine with your labor and house being taxed... but you freak out over a few cents more on a root beer?
 
Geoist said:
So you are fine with your labor and house being taxed... but you freak out over a few cents more on a root beer?
Click to expand...

How else do we fund government?
 
99percenter said:
There are worse things you can put in your body worse than sugar. Are you going to tax that too?
Click to expand...

They already do, which is why my favorite, Jack Daniels, costs so damn much. LOL.
 
Sampson Simpson said:
This is completely ridiculous and completely unamerican and anti-freedom. Where does it end? If parents have disorders and have a kid with a disorder, should they be punished for their choices? What about all those obese people? What about alcohol? What about fried foods? What about caffiene? What about everything.

And really, the argument along the lines of "I don't want my taxes to go towards this or that" is complete bull****, because people's taxes are a pittance of the government spending, and people get far more in benefits from the government (law and order, justice, defense, roads, infrastructure, etc) than they put in.

And many times the people that make such a claim want to force people to pay for bogus wars that do nothing but kill and destroy, or allow corporations to exploit people across the world
Click to expand...

The City of New York has one of the highest sin taxes on cigarettes found in the nation. The government of the City of New York cries the loudest about lost revenues from smuggled and counterfeit cigarettes. Never saw that coming.
 
Geoist said:
I see no problem with it when those life choices become costly to the taxpayers.
Click to expand...

Except they might not be the result of choices.

No one taxes my grappa or my shine. :lamo
 
Geoist said:
Are you proposing an end to Medicare? Insurance companies? Good luck with that. This is why I left the right-libertarian movement, completely unrealistic and impractical ideas.
Click to expand...

I am proposing the riddance of all forms of health insurance. It is a system that has failed. It is time for the failure to end. We're Americans who can do. It is time for better minds to create better solutions. Get the politics out of healthcare, and into funding alternate solutions to the insurance problem.
 
Sampson Simpson said:
This is completely ridiculous and completely unamerican and anti-freedom. Where does it end? If parents have disorders and have a kid with a disorder, should they be punished for their choices? What about all those obese people? What about alcohol? What about fried foods? What about caffiene? What about everything.

And really, the argument along the lines of "I don't want my taxes to go towards this or that" is complete bull****, because people's taxes are a pittance of the government spending, and people get far more in benefits from the government (law and order, justice, defense, roads, infrastructure, etc) than they put in.

And many times the people that make such a claim want to force people to pay for bogus wars that do nothing but kill and destroy, or allow corporations to exploit people across the world
Click to expand...

It endangers exactly where we want it to end. Because we’re an educated populace with an educated govt and we are perfectly capable as people to decide appopriately whether it is ok to ban something (mustard gas) vs tax something heavily (cigarettes) vs not taxing something (charity donation). Because there is such a thing as nuance and critical thinking, which allows us to come to good solutions beyond generalizations of ‘tax bad’ or ‘government bad’.
 
danarhea said:
They already do, which is why my favorite, Jack Daniels, costs so damn much. LOL.
Click to expand...

What about your big mac? Is there a special sin tax on that? How about those non fda approved supplements?
 
OldFatGuy said:
The City of New York has one of the highest sin taxes on cigarettes found in the nation. The government of the City of New York cries the loudest about lost revenues from smuggled and counterfeit cigarettes. Never saw that coming.
Click to expand...
The cigarette taxes have reduced the rates of smoking in NYC. This is most effective for stopping young adults, which means fewer lifetime smokers.

Unsurprisingly, states with the lowest cigarette taxes are the ones with the highest rates of smoking (28%), such as West Virginia. Cigarettes in New York State (not just the city) are about twice the cost as VW, and have significantly lower smoking rates (18%). New York is also a much bigger state, so numerically that is a substantial difference.

While cigarette smuggling is an issue, there aren't big gang wars over it, or guys hanging off of cigarette trucks firing Tommy Guns at one another. It's mostly just buying cases in other states, and slapping counterfeit stamps on the packs. I'll take some cigarette smoking over people dying of lung cancer any day.
 
Geoist said:
Are you proposing an end to Medicare? Insurance companies? Good luck with that. This is why I left the right-libertarian movement, completely unrealistic and impractical ideas.
Click to expand...

Why do you so frequently make these huge leaps from what I say?
 
Visbek said:
The cigarette taxes have reduced the rates of smoking in NYC. This is most effective for stopping young adults, which means fewer lifetime smokers.

Unsurprisingly, states with the lowest cigarette taxes are the ones with the highest rates of smoking (28%), such as West Virginia. Cigarettes in New York State (not just the city) are about twice the cost as VW, and have significantly lower smoking rates (18%). New York is also a much bigger state, so numerically that is a substantial difference.

While cigarette smuggling is an issue, there aren't big gang wars over it, or guys hanging off of cigarette trucks firing Tommy Guns at one another. It's mostly just buying cases in other states, and slapping counterfeit stamps on the packs. I'll take some cigarette smoking over people dying of lung cancer any day.
Click to expand...

Social pressures have accomplished more to stop smoking. And the statistic are based on cigarette taxes collected.

The FBI states that cigarette smuggling in NY and other cigarette high tax states is funding terrorist organizations. Many of the smuggled cigarettes confiscated in NYS are counterfeits from China, Pakistan, Haiti, Guyana, and so forth.
 
Please just stop with the Nanny mentality!

We as a nation would be so much better off.
 
OldFatGuy said:
Social pressures have accomplished more to stop smoking. And the statistic are based on cigarette taxes collected.
Click to expand...
Incorrect. They use multiple measures to determine the number of smokers.


The FBI states that cigarette smuggling in NY and other cigarette high tax states is funding terrorist organizations. Many of the smuggled cigarettes confiscated in NYS are counterfeits from China, Pakistan, Haiti, Guyana, and so forth.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the completely unsupported nonsense. Most of the cigarettes are simply trucked across state lines, with faked stamps and certs. Most are coming from WV, VA, WY, NV and so on.

Cigarette-smuggling-(large).png
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom