View Poll Results: Is the US an oligarchy?

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  • Yes

    14 31.82%
  • No

    10 22.73%
  • We're becoming an oligarchy

    20 45.45%
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Thread: Do we live in an oligarchy?

  1. #71
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    Re: Do we live in an oligarchy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Waddy View Post
    Oligarchy is a consequence of centralization of power.
    The causal relationship goes both directions. An oligarchy will create a centralization of power, which will create an oligarchy. It's a self-propelling machine.

  2. #72
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    Re: Do we live in an oligarchy?

    US is a de facto plutocracy at least as early at 2014, and probably well before: https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/...litics.doc.pdf

    It's only gotten worse since.
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  3. #73
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    Re: Do we live in an oligarchy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaea View Post
    So you believe that it's unconstitutional for a media company to refuse to play an advertisement if they disagree with the content of the ad?

    That's how protected speech works.
    If the private media company is not a quasi monopoly and it is not acting under governmental or judicial coercion? Of course it should be allowed to advertise positions it wants to and refuse publication of alternative opinions.

  4. #74
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    Re: Do we live in an oligarchy?

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    If the private media company is not a quasi monopoly and it is not acting under governmental or judicial coercion? Of course it should be allowed to advertise positions it wants to and refuse publication of alternative opinions.
    That's directly contradictory to your statement saying that paid speech should be protected.

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    I believe it is and probably should be protected. I don't really see how else you would want to arrange free speech.

  5. #75
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    Re: Do we live in an oligarchy?

    The powerful can be oligarchs, but they by no means have to be, so I dislike the term but will use it for this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lurker View Post
    Is the US an oligarchy?.
    Not exactly, but on a oligarchy-nonoligarchy scale, you are trending towards oligarchy, as are most countries I'm familiar with.

    It's not exactly a new phenomenon.
    Hammurabi's Law was game changing because it made laws legible for the common man, and made it more difficult for the powerful to manipulate the system.
    Ancient Rome was a game changer because it introduced (in theory at least) equality before the law, making it more difficult for the powerful to manipulate the system.
    Protestantism was a game changer because it insisted on preaching God's word in the local tongue rather than Latin, making it more difficult for the powerful to manipulate the system.

    On the other hand, all the various forms of tyranny have special privilege for the powerful.
    "This law applies to you, but not to me. This tax applies to you, but not to me. This obligation exists for you, but not for me. This exemption applies to me, but not to you. This right of veto applies to me, but not to you."

    Generally, transparency and the abolition of special privilege is associated with human progress and the opposite with it's regress.
    The problem for most countries in the Western world is that one can buy special privilege via (legal) contributions. It is not a problem I have a solution for, because contributions are necessary for popular rule to exist.
    Abolish them and only the rich can afford to run for office. Regulate them and you have a class of bureaucrats deciding who gets to contribute what. Do not regulate them and the rich can afford to buy more privilege than the common man.

    There is no easy solution. I guess the best we can do is to make contributions and privilege as transparent and accessible as possible.
    I would like being able to ask my representatives why they voted for tax breaks to someone who contributed to their interests without having to give up my day job to do so.
    Ok, that does it! I waste Professor Plum with the lead pipe.
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  6. #76
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    Re: Do we live in an oligarchy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Carjosse View Post
    It basically established that corporations and the wealthy have right to influence elections as much as they please. It basically prevents any hope of reform.
    But it is about even on both sides. The money flowing into the Clinton camp or related to the Clinton camp far exceeded Trump's. In fact, Trump was elected with probably the most money ever spent by everyone on both sides in an attempt to stop him. The left likes to pretend that all of this money from corporations and the wealthy goes into the Republican Camp but there is just as much money flowing into the Democratic camp. You've got George Soros, Michael Moore, Warren Buffet, and a bevy of Hollywood celebrities, just to name a few, so don't pretend it is one sided. And, look at all of the money Wall Street gave Hillary in one form or another. She was bought and paid for by corporations.
    Last edited by Moderate Right; 01-04-18 at 07:11 AM.

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    Re: Do we live in an oligarchy?

    We live in a democratic republic.
    Days since a far-leftist has lied:0

  8. #78
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    Re: Do we live in an oligarchy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    But it is about even on both sides. The money flowing into the Clinton camp or related to the Clinton camp far exceeded Trump's. In fact, Trump was elected with probably the most money ever spent by everyone on both sides in an attempt to stop him. The left likes to pretend that all of this money from corporations and the wealthy goes into the Republican Camp but there is just as much money flowing into the Democratic camp. You've got George Soros, Michael Moore, Warren Buffet, and a bevy of Hollywood celebrities, just to name a few, so don't pretend it is one sided. And, look at all of the money Wall Street gave Hillary in one form or another. She was bought and paid for by corporations.
    Now where did I say this was a one-sided issue?
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  9. #79
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    Re: Do we live in an oligarchy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    support strong unions
    raise the maximum tax rate
    revise our election system to minimize the effect of money
    admit corporations aren't people
    establish a single payer health care system like the rest of the modern world has done
    raise the cap on Social Security
    quit looking to other way while illegal labor is being exploited.

    That should do for a start.
    Who is going to pay for any of that and why do you think that will help0 anybody?

  10. #80
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    Re: Do we live in an oligarchy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    We live in a democratic republic.
    And do you think that democratic republic is slowly becoming an oligarchy?

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