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Do you believe in "Russia-gate?"

Do you believe that Donald Trump colluded with Russia to win the 2016 election?

  • Yes

    Votes: 23 31.1%

  • No

    Votes: 33 44.6%

  • I'll wait until there's more information before I decide

    Votes: 18 24.3%
  • Total voters
    74
  • Poll closed .
Goshin said:
My usual answer would have been "waiting for more info".


But this time I chose "no".

It's been a year. If there were any real evidence worth talking about, the impeachment would already be under way. It isn't like Trump lacks enemies that would use any thinnest excuse to get rid of him.
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We have three proven incidents of cooperation.

(1) Don Jr "if it's what you say, i love it" followed by a meeting that they subsequently lied about

(2) Wikileaks "spread this info" followed by Trumps spreading the info

(3) Papadopolous bragging to Australian diplomat that Russia had dirt on Hillary ~2mo before it became public, followed by President Trump publicly asking Russia for help

We have a number of secondary incidents:

* President Trump drags his feet on Russian sanctions

* President Trump makes Crimea policy more favorable to Russian interests

* President Trump makes Syria policy more favorable to Russian interests

* President Trump outright refuses to condemn Putin's political assassinations

* Putin and President Trump effusively exchange praise

* Flynn asked Russia not to react to sanctions, Russia doesn't react to sanctions

* Flynn and Sessions meet with Kislyak multiple times and lie about the meetings

The evidence is already clear.
 
Lutherf said:
You have to understand, there is tons of evidence but the GOP lead, right wing media keeps covering it up.
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The irony of the party that brought us Benghazi using this pathetic excuse in the wake of multiple indictments is truly something to behold.
 
This tweet says it all:

69a5047d8147805a6cbd032e9829a10d.jpg


Instead, President Trump had his son-in-law beg the Russians for a back-channel, specifically to bypass US authorities.
 
Absentglare said:
We have three proven incidents of cooperation.

(1) Don Jr "if it's what you say, i love it" followed by a meeting that they subsequently lied about

(2) Wikileaks "spread this info" followed by Trumps spreading the info

(3) Papadopolous bragging to Australian diplomat that Russia had dirt on Hillary ~2mo before it became public, followed by President Trump publicly asking Russia for help

We have a number of secondary incidents:

* President Trump drags his feet on Russian sanctions

* President Trump makes Crimea policy more favorable to Russian interests

* President Trump makes Syria policy more favorable to Russian interests

* President Trump outright refuses to condemn Putin's political assassinations

* Putin and President Trump effusively exchange praise

* Flynn asked Russia not to react to sanctions, Russia doesn't react to sanctions

* Flynn and Sessions meet with Kislyak multiple times and lie about the meetings

The evidence is already clear.
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If it were clear, unequivocal and prove-able at this time, the impeachment and indictments would already be under way.

There's a reason they are not.
 
Moderate Right said:
I have your admission that the resistance is just payback for Benghazi. I understand. When they go low, you go lower. That's politics. Just own up to the truth.
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Jesus.
Do you blieve what you write? I said the Benghazi investigation dragged on forever and that makes you believe I made an admission about payback?
Nobody's that obtuse. How can you stand there barefaced and make yourself look so idiotic? Do you actually believe the Attorney-General's office is paying back for Benghazi?
Why do you have such a low opinion of the USA?
 
Goshin said:
If it were clear, unequivocal and prove-able at this time, the impeachment and indictments would already be under way.

There's a reason they are not.
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If Trump fled to Russia in a miniature submarine, officially defected and took up residence in an apartment paid for by the FSB, Republicans in congress would insist that Trump be allowed to rule in absentia.
 
Goshin said:
If it were clear, unequivocal and prove-able at this time, the impeachment and indictments would already be under way.

There's a reason they are not.
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That's a logical fallacy. You are assuming that republicans in congress are completely objective. We can see with Nunes, Ryan, McConnell, etc, that they are not.
 
Absentglare said:
That's a logical fallacy. You are assuming that republicans in congress are completely objective. We can see with Nunes, Ryan, McConnell, etc, that they are not.
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There are enough R's in congress that hate Trump for not being R-establishment, that impeachment could be in progress by now, if the evidence were really solid.

My guess is they aren't biting because it isn't.
 
Goshin said:
There are enough R's in congress that hate Trump for not being R-establishment, that impeachment could be in progress by now, if the evidence were really solid.

My guess is they aren't biting because it isn't.
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Another premise i disagree with: that there are enough R's in congress that hate President Trump.

I don't think we're going to see eye to eye on this. Hopefully Mueller clears it up so that we may be able to do so. However, i would urge you to consider that the case against a sitting president might take more time than Mueller has already had.
 
Absentglare said:
Another premise i disagree with: that there are enough R's in congress that hate President Trump.

I don't think we're going to see eye to eye on this. Hopefully Mueller clears it up so that we may be able to do so. However, i would urge you to consider that the case against a sitting president might take more time than Mueller has already had.
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Perhaps. I'll admit I stopped even following all this a while back; the fog of politics makes all information available suspect.

But if at some future date a solid case with solid evidence that is credible and can be verified is presented, I am open to changing my mind.
 
Cardinal said:
You appear to be a lot more bothered by it than I am.
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LOL. You guys have made over one million anti-Trump posts so I think it is rather obvious who is more bothered.
 
Grand Mal said:
Jesus.
Do you blieve what you write? I said the Benghazi investigation dragged on forever and that makes you believe I made an admission about payback?
Nobody's that obtuse. How can you stand there barefaced and make yourself look so idiotic? Do you actually believe the Attorney-General's office is paying back for Benghazi?
Why do you have such a low opinion of the USA?
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So you have a high opinion of the USA, including the White House, the Senate, the House, the Supreme Court, and Jeff Sessions and the DOJ?
 
Moderate Right said:
So you have a high opinion of the USA, including the White House, the Senate, the House, the Supreme Court, and Jeff Sessions and the DOJ?
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3rd. time- Do you say Sessions and the A-G's office are investigating Russian interference as payback to the Republicans for the Benghazi investigation? 'Cuz that's what you said, and it's a flat-out stupid thing to say.
 
Moderate Right said:
LOL. You guys have made over one million anti-Trump posts so I think it is rather obvious who is more bothered.
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I made my peace with how our line of succession works nearly a year ago. You're the one who seems to have just learned about it and is eager to educate others on a basic part of American civics that everybody else learned in fourth grade social studies.
 
Grand Mal said:
3rd. time- Do you say Sessions and the A-G's office are investigating Russian interference as payback to the Republicans for the Benghazi investigation? 'Cuz that's what you said, and it's a flat-out stupid thing to say.
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Do you have a high opinion of the USA, including the White House, the Senate, the House, the Supreme Court, and Jeff Sessions and the DOJ? After all, YOU are the one who told me I don't have a high opinion of the US, but I do. Do you?
 
Cardinal said:
I made my peace with how our line of succession works nearly a year ago. You're the one who seems to have just learned about it and is eager to educate others on a basic part of American civics that everybody else learned in fourth grade social studies.
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I think your liberal counterparts need a crash course because they seem to have forgotten.
 
Moderate Right said:
Do you have a high opinion of the USA, including the White House, the Senate, the House, the Supreme Court, and Jeff Sessions and the DOJ?
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Done with you. You just illustrate the punchline of an old internet joke.
 
Grand Mal said:
Done with you. You just illustrate the punchline of an old internet joke.
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It was just a simple question. Since you said that I don't like the USA, I just asked you if you liked the USA and apparently all you can do is dodge the question.
 
Moderate Right said:
I think your liberal counterparts need a crash course because they seem to have forgotten.
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No, they know too since they attended social studies in the fourth grade too. Anyway, I've explained what is remaining in the investigation. If you want to know more you'll need to sit tight and wait like the rest of us.
 
Cardinal said:
No, they know too since they attended social studies in the fourth grade too. Anyway, I've explained what is remaining in the investigation. If you want to know more you'll need to sit tight and wait like the rest of us.
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Yep. Just like the right did with Benghazi. It's always right around the corner. They're going to be locked up any day now. I say bring it on. I would rather have either Pence or Ryan as president rather than Trump. So, give it your best shot. If you are successful, you lose.
 
Moderate Right said:
Yep. Just like the right did with Benghazi. It's always right around the corner. They're going to be locked up any day now. I say bring it on. I would rather have either Pence or Ryan as president rather than Trump. So, give it your best shot. If you are successful, you lose.
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Okay.
 
Cardinal said:
Okay.
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Smart man. But, you would be smarter if you wanted Trump to stay in power. It would be much better for your side. But, most people on your side are too stupid to realize this.
 
Moderate Right said:
Smart man. But, you would be smarter if you wanted Trump to stay in power. It would be much better for your side. But, most people on your side are too stupid to realize this.
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You're a very nice man.
 
Do I believe the Russians interfered in our election, of coarse they did. They interfere in all kinds of areas and have long before Putin came along. The difference is that now so much of their attacks are cyber (difficult to track and combat). Do, I think Trump colluded with Russia? I don't know. Perhaps. If he did was it unintentional, or is he so arrogant that he thinks rules do not apply to him?
 
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