• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Do you believe in "Russia-gate?"

Do you believe that Donald Trump colluded with Russia to win the 2016 election?

  • Yes

    Votes: 23 31.1%

  • No

    Votes: 33 44.6%

  • I'll wait until there's more information before I decide

    Votes: 18 24.3%
  • Total voters
    74
  • Poll closed .
Moderate Right said:
LOL. From the first minute the left said there was plenty of obvious evidence against Trump for obstructing justice. If the evidence was so obvious, why even bother with an investigation that lasts months or years? Just handcuff him now with the obvious evidence.
Click to expand...

LOL Sitting Presidents cannot be charged with a crime. Mueller is working on a possible impeachment proceeding and that takes time.
 
Moderate Right said:
But, we have zero evidence that Trump or his campaign colluded with the Russians to influence the election. But, you are right that it's about impossible to prove that any Russian interference actually changed the election results. On top of that, we also know that the US is in over their own heads in trying to influence the election of other countries.
Click to expand...

They tried to. That's what junior's Russian meeting was about.
 
Moderate Right said:
It's very easy to convince you lefties of Russian Collusion because you are such easy marks and desperate. It's like people with cancer getting duped by false cures. You guys have so much sour grapes over the election you will believe absolutely any propaganda against Trump. It's actually quite funny to watch. I about busted a gut recently when new flashes came up that Ivanka and Jared were in a picture with the Confederate flag in the background.
Click to expand...

Post 42 will suffice.
 
Moderate Right said:
If it was so obvious, then why isn't the investigation over and they can proceed.
Click to expand...
Because the investigation ends when all crimes have been uncovered and prepared for prosecution.

There is no "one crime" or "number of crimes" to uncover (or not). The investigation goes wherever the evidence leads, to whatever it leads.

The investigation is not over, nor will it be anytime soon, because they are not finding enough of anything to indict anyone other than some honest to gosh crooks they have found.
Click to expand...
You've provided no evidence supporting the above, and indeed how could you? Barring an inside connect, to the investigation?
 
Chomsky said:
Anyone claiming "Nothing important has been found", strikes me as whistling while walking past the graveyard ...
Click to expand...

If nothing that's happened up to this point is cause for suspicion, then nothing I have to say is going to have any impact. And frankly, I suspect that anything Mueller has to say at the end of his investigation will do about as much good.
 
Moderate Right said:
If it was so obvious, then why isn't the investigation over and they can proceed. The investigation is not over, nor will it be anytime soon, because they are not finding enough of anything to indict anyone other than some honest to gosh crooks they have found.
Click to expand...

Wow. Some people simply cannot grasp the reality of how investigations function.

Either that, or it's too painful, mentally, for them.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
 
If they had anything chargeable on Trump it would have been leaked by now. This is Washington, fer Chriz' sakes.
 
Moderate Right said:
LOL. From the first minute the left said there was plenty of obvious evidence against Trump for obstructing justice. If the evidence was so obvious, why even bother with an investigation that lasts months or years? Just handcuff him now with the obvious evidence.
Click to expand...
Because this is not about Trump, but about ensuring the integrity of our elections and the democratic process, while bringing those who do criminal activity to justice.

Whether Trump goes down, is NOT the subject of the investigation. If he does go down, it's because he committed a criminal act(s), and all I can say is: "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time!".

To his followers, again if he goes down, I would subsequently suggest they use more care in vetting and picking their candidate. A vote is a sacred thing to maintain a free society, and its use is not to be taken lightly or done without due care.
 
Cardinal said:
If nothing that's happened up to this point is cause for suspicion, then nothing I have to say is going to have any impact. And frankly, I suspect that anything Mueller has to say at the end of his investigation will do about as much good.
Click to expand...
I sadly agree.
 
brothern said:
It is. I would write up a post, but Chomsky nails the explanation in his reply. See point #2. A criminal conspiracy is a plan made by a person(s) to commit a crime, and then takes steps to complete the act. The crime itself does not need to be committed. Ex, an accountant who plans to embezzle funds from his employer by altering system records, but is caught before withdrawing the funds.

Additionally where Chomsky is also correct is that we don't yet know if Trump's campaign actually obtained Podesta's stolen emails or other information. If so this ratchets up tenfold.
Click to expand...

Except, none of that's illegal.
 
Chomsky said:
Anyone claiming "Nothing important has been found", strikes me as whistling while walking past the graveyard ...
Click to expand...

It is worse than that. Far far worse than that.

One of two things is going on with the most vocal Trump supporters who deny there was any Russian interference in our election and the Trump campaign was part to it:

1 - they cynically are willing to have our main foreign anniversary get away with helping to elect a president of the USA and the implications that go with such foreign control simply because they support Trumps policies and see him as a creature of the right wing who cannot afford to be smeared and thus smear the right wing.

or

2 - the mental delusion it takes to willingly deny all the evidence we have seen so far borders on a mental illness caused by a combination of extremist politics and outright denial of reality.

And perhaps it is parts of both.

We will in the end get a report which states that Russian not only interfered in our election but did so with the help of Donald Trump and many of his top campaign officials. And the reason he was willing to do this was for craven greed of money and the prospects of Russian help with his business empire.
 
WOW, talk about a nutty conspiracy theory!!!
 
Anybody recall how long the Nixon investigation lasted? There were two investigators. Most of the investigation was conducted by Archibald Cox (who Nixon had fired). The other was by Leon Jaworski.
 
I strongly suspect it, but my convictions are as definitive as the evidence.
 
Chomsky said:
Exactly.

1] From the email chains, it's obvious to me collusion has occurred. The emails would seem to be prima facie evidence of this.

2] Since the Trump Towers Russian meeting(s) involves the Trump Campaign seeking Russian influence upon the election, and the Russians attempt to assist the campaign in providing the influencing materials - thereby conspiring to violate federal campaign laws - it would seem that criminal conspiracy took place that day(s).

3] What we still don't know, but Mueller may, is whether the Trump campaign actually received and took possession of the Russian election materials? If so, this would supersede the conspiracy, jumping directly to federal election crime itself.

4] What we also don't know, and again Mueller may, is did the Trump Campaign perform any actions relating to a quid-pro-quo in this or other matters? That Trump's campaign and staff seem to be inundated with Russian contact - contact which they denied and attempted to hide to the point of being guilty of felonious perjury - and that Trump seems to be overtly Russian-friendly to the point of insisting upon changing nearly seven decades of consistent GOP party platform to embrace Russia, would seem to indicate quid-pro-quo is not outside the realm of possibility.

My current tally:

1] Collusion: Proven
2] Conspiracy: Proven
3] Federal Election Crime: T.B.D.
4] Quid Pro Quo: T.B.D.
Click to expand...
Agreed, they were obviously 'in' on the conspiracy at least to some extent.

If I wanted to read between the lines, I'd say that IF there was a quid pro quo, it probably involved a refinancing of some of the mortgages and loans Trump/Kushner has out of Deutsche bank by a Russian financial union.
 
No. Putin is a fairly smart guy. The odds that he looked at Donald Trump and thought "Aha! Here is Smart Fellow I can make Super-Secret deal with to control whole world, who can keep his mouth shut." are only slightly worse than the odds of me winning the lotto (I don't buy tickets. That way if I win, I'll know I was really supposed to win).
 
cpwill said:
No. Putin is a fairly smart guy. The odds that he looked at Donald Trump and thought "Aha! Here is Smart Fellow I can make Super-Secret deal with to control whole world, who can keep his mouth shut." are only slightly worse than the odds of me winning the lotto (I don't buy tickets. That way if I win, I'll know I was really supposed to win).
Click to expand...

Fairly? This guy has a long record of being a step ahead of everyone else.....what did Robert Gates say?...."He has played a poor hand extremely well (paraphrase...maybe)"...and he should know.
 
Removable Mind said:
Anybody recall how long the Nixon investigation lasted? There were two investigators. Most of the investigation was conducted by Archibald Cox (who Nixon had fired). The other was by Leon Jaworski.
Click to expand...
It took about two and half years to get Nixon, but the FBI continued some elements of the investigation for another year.

By comparison, Iran-Contra took seven years, Whitewater took six years, and the Plame affair over three years.

The special counsel investigating Trump-Russia will probably last the rest of Trumps presidency.
 
I have no doubt Trump worked with the Russians. There's no feet that guy wouldn't step on to gain power.

LoL at all the people saying "wait for all the facts to come out". You've got a Jawge Dubya Bush minion running it, the outcome of the investigation is a foregone conclusion (not to mention the FBS is a GOP attack machine).
 
No, I don't believe in Russia gate, and this is from a Democrat.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom