View Poll Results: Do you believe that Donald Trump colluded with Russia to win the 2016 election?

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  • Yes

    23 31.08%
  • No

    33 44.59%
  • I'll wait until there's more information before I decide

    18 24.32%
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Thread: Do you believe in "Russia-gate?"

  1. #11
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    Re: Do you believe in "Russia-gate?"

    Quote Originally Posted by brothern View Post
    Colluded, in that Trump and campaign were able to establish a regular back-and-forth with the Russian government?

    No.

    However colluded in the sense that Trump and campaign saw attempts from Russia via conduits like Wikileaks to inform them of having in their possession stolen emails and "dirt" on Clinton, and then Trump and campaign in turn, trying to obtain that information from those sources?

    Ah-yup. What's already come out has nearly made a water-tight case on that.
    Exactly.

    1] From the email chains, it's obvious to me collusion has occurred. The emails would seem to be prima facie evidence of this.

    2] Since the Trump Towers Russian meeting(s) involves the Trump Campaign seeking Russian influence upon the election, and the Russians attempt to assist the campaign in providing the influencing materials - thereby conspiring to violate federal campaign laws - it would seem that criminal conspiracy took place that day(s).

    3] What we still don't know, but Mueller may, is whether the Trump campaign actually received and took possession of the Russian election materials? If so, this would supersede the conspiracy, jumping directly to federal election crime itself.

    4] What we also don't know, and again Mueller may, is did the Trump Campaign perform any actions relating to a quid-pro-quo in this or other matters? That Trump's campaign and staff seem to be inundated with Russian contact - contact which they denied and attempted to hide to the point of being guilty of felonious perjury - and that Trump seems to be overtly Russian-friendly to the point of insisting upon changing nearly seven decades of consistent GOP party platform to embrace Russia, would seem to indicate quid-pro-quo is not outside the realm of possibility.

    My current tally:

    1] Collusion: Proven
    2] Conspiracy: Proven
    3] Federal Election Crime: T.B.D.
    4] Quid Pro Quo: T.B.D.
    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

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  2. #12
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    Re: Do you believe in "Russia-gate?"

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lurker View Post
    By that, I mean do you believe that Trump colluded with Russia to win the 2016 presidential election? Do you believe that there's any there there?

    Personally, I think that it's a distraction made by the Deep State in order to prime Americans into hating Russia, which is seen by the US as being a geopolitical rival. I hope that eventually people come to realize that the mainstream media is duping them, especially CNN.

    Edit: Both this article and video represent how I feel about "Russia-gate."

    What We Don?t Talk about When We Talk about Russian Hacking

    In a word...no.
    TANSTAAFL

    “An armed society is a polite society.”
    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

  3. #13
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    Re: Do you believe in "Russia-gate?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    There's no doubt that the government can utilize the media to get certain notions out there and be believed. Today's media for the most part is a willing accomplice. This Russia thing isn't the government though. It is a willing media that didn't want Trump to win in the first place. The media for the most part want to believe this Russia stuff.

    Investigative journalism is passe today. Journalist are too caught up in their own political agenda and or views. It very well could be the media for the most part has become part of the story instead of just reporting the story. They have jumped to conclusions. Regardless of the stripes they wear, the media shows those stripes proudly be they left or right, Republican or Democrat, pro or anti-Trump.

    Objective reporting and just reporting the facts, the event by itself without all the opinions given by the reporters and guest to persuade you one way or the other is passe.
    Great post; objective, fair, and balanced.

    Just as you claim the media should (used to?) be!
    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

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    Re: Do you believe in "Russia-gate?"

    I voted = wait until there's more information before I decide BUT HAVING SAID THAT in an interview just yesterday Trump said the word 'collusion' 16 times within a 30 minute interview.
    What does that say about Trump? Seems Trump has a lot of 'collusion' on his mind
    The REALLY TELLING thing that Trump said is posted as my (current) signature ................. "There is no collusion, and even if there was, it’s not a crime." WTF? Is Trump serious? ............
    "Mexico will pay for that ****ing wall" - "There is no collusion" - "Wars are good and easy to win"
    MAWA - Make America White Again - Donald Trump/The Great WHITE Hope

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    Re: Do you believe in "Russia-gate?"

    Much of this is speculation, but I'm fairly confident that there's an angle where Trump was dealing with shifty (which is to say any large and successful) businesses in Russia and likely laundering money and/or accepting loans from them (same thing,) so I'd guess he is compromised in that way.

    I doubt very much that they coordinated strategy very directly, or in a way that is provably illegal. It makes perfect sense the Russians would prefer Trump over Clinton, having the above history.

    It also makes sense to me that they would use what PR clout they can muster to shift the election in that direction. It's just hard to decide if it had any impact, or if it was illegal. We do the same all over the world. Just look at what we're dealing with today because we just had to jerk around with Iran in the 50s.

    For me concluding Trump is a ****bag and dirty businessman is easy. Concluding there's anything worth exposing on the Russian connection is not.

    What would we get out of the deal? We aren't going to impeach any time soon, whatever is exposed, and it's not clear that that would be in our best interests anyhow.

  6. #16
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    Re: Do you believe in "Russia-gate?"

    Quote Originally Posted by brothern View Post
    Colluded, in that Trump and campaign were able to establish a regular back-and-forth with the Russian government?

    No.

    However colluded in the sense that Trump and campaign saw attempts from Russia via conduits like Wikileaks to inform them of having in their possession stolen emails and "dirt" on Clinton, and then Trump and campaign in turn, trying to obtain that information from those sources?

    Ah-yup. What's already come out has nearly made a water-tight case on that.
    Actually, none of that's illegal
    Quote Originally Posted by americanwoman View Post
    So there is absolutely no evidence this woman, whom you called a slut, did this but you are ready to take someone's word as evidence. Guess you don't think witch hunts have to end when it's going after the certain people.

  7. #17
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    Re: Do you believe in "Russia-gate?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Chomsky View Post
    Exactly.

    1] From the email chains, it's obvious to me collusion has occurred. The emails would seem to be prima facie evidence of this.

    2] Since the Trump Towers Russian meeting(s) involves the Trump Campaign seeking Russian influence upon the election, and the Russians attempt to assist the campaign in providing the influencing materials - thereby conspiring to violate federal campaign laws - it would seem that criminal conspiracy took place that day(s).

    3] What we still don't know, but Mueller may, is whether the Trump campaign actually received and took possession of the Russian election materials? If so, this would supersede the conspiracy, jumping directly to federal election crime itself.

    4] What we also don't know, and again Mueller may, is did the Trump Campaign perform any actions relating to a quid-pro-quo in this or other matters? That Trump's campaign and staff seem to be inundated with Russian contact - contact which they denied and attempted to hide to the point of being guilty of felonious perjury - and that Trump seems to be overtly Russian-friendly to the point of insisting upon changing nearly seven decades of consistent GOP party platform to embrace Russia, would seem to indicate quid-pro-quo is not outside the realm of possibility.

    My current tally:

    1] Collusion: Proven
    2] Conspiracy: Proven
    3] Federal Election Crime: T.B.D.
    4] Quid Pro Quo: T.B.D.


    You know, growing up in high school in the US we were fed about 25 straight tons of the perilous nature of democracy and that it had to be defended against all incursions as it is the very essence of democracy.
    One of the "enemies" to democracy at that time was the peace movement, another blacks, and the third hippies.
    Today, you have a president who has violated the very concept of an American-only election. I am certain in my heart had this happened with a Democrat, the right would be in apoplexy..

    The fact they are not shows that all the wrapping of oneself in the flag, protecting democracy, law and order and every other "American principle" are no more than a currency used to fool the people.

    The hypocrisy that has come out of all this is stupendous.

    I hope the Democrats are hiring every basement hacker out side the country they can find for future elections....the Repulsicans have not one moral pencil thin reed to stand on.
    Americans can always be counted on doing the right thing...after they have tried everything else." Winston Churchill.

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    Re: Do you believe in "Russia-gate?"

    They're now targeting people "of Russian nationality or Russian descent."

    EXPLOSIVE Senate email says anyone "of Russian nationality or Russian descent" will now be targeted

    Things are getting ugly.

  9. #19
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    Re: Do you believe in "Russia-gate?"

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lurker View Post
    By that, I mean do you believe that Trump colluded with Russia to win the 2016 presidential election? Do you believe that there's any there there?

    Personally, I think that it's a distraction made by the Deep State in order to prime Americans into hating Russia, which is seen by the US as being a geopolitical rival. I hope that eventually people come to realize that the mainstream media is duping them, especially CNN.

    Edit: Both this article and video represent how I feel about "Russia-gate."

    What We Don?t Talk about When We Talk about Russian Hacking

    If I were the Russians, this might well be a story I would foster just as I would have supported intervention in the election. It makes sense.

  10. #20
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    Re: Do you believe in "Russia-gate?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Chomsky View Post
    Great post; objective, fair, and balanced.

    Just as you claim the media should (used to?) be!
    The media has always had a bias. But that bias was very covert and those in the media tried to hide it. The idea was just report on what is happening and keep one personal opinions out of it. Not any more. We have cable news channels dedicated to one party or the other and they slant their news that way depending on which party or ideology they have.

    I do think if one realizes this, one can shift through all the propaganda and end up with the news story without all the slants presented. It isn't easy, but can be done. When that doesn't work, just sit back and wait. Sooner or later one or more of the news channels will be proven wrong.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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