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Whats the biggest threat to the USA? [W:216]

Whats the biggest threat to the USA?

  • Radical Terrorism

    Votes: 2 3.2%
  • Nationalism

    Votes: 11 17.7%
  • Liberalism

    Votes: 36 58.1%
  • Global Warming

    Votes: 7 11.3%
  • Evangelicals

    Votes: 6 9.7%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed .
This is a false argument and one that has been used to distract from the issue. Before the high profile shootings began to grow exponentially and become more frequent, Liberals and Conservatives were holding conversations on inner city violence. Besides, poverty exploded in the inner cities of America during the Reagan years, because he targeted programs that went towards low-income families. This increased crime. In fact, handgun-related homicides more than doubled between 1985 and 1990. Now Conservatives wish to distract from the gun issue because Obama didn't fix the inner cities?

What gun issue? liberals never talk about inner city violence. almost all gun crimes are between people who both have criminal records. less than 1% of all gun crimes/homicides are committed by "assault weapons" or gun show sold guns.

and 1985 and 90? why did you stop there?


oh,

Gun homicides steady after decline in ?90s; suicide rate edges up | Pew Research Center

because the numbers have been plummeting since, even though ownership has skyrocketed.


I cant speak for conservatives. But I've been called racist countless times for caring about inner city violence. FWIW.


This is mere propaganda. Besides, aren't you arguing that the white male is a victim?

Nope.


Like I stated, this a State issue and every single red and blue state has anti-smoking laws scattered about. In fact, a smoking ban (either state or local) has been enacted covering all bars and restaurants in each of the sixty most populated cities in the United States except twelve. It is not a "liberal" thing.

state or federal, it was a liberal statist push against the free market.


Most do, but white males are not victims.

strawman


I didn't state that. You did and I responded. Why would I bring up the good that white males have done when my reply was about your accusing Liberals for wanting to "blame white males for the worlds ills?" You accuse as if they are wrong, yet they are not.

I pointed out, simply what you ommitted.


* We do not live in anarchy. Despite our liberties and freedoms we do have order. We do have laws. And these laws are not going to make everybody happy. But one can't simplify issues just to try to make an argument that liberalism isn't what it is. Anti-smoking laws and hate speech laws are petty examples. You may as well declare that you have lost the freedom to use Freon because of those damned Liberals.


Examples were asked for, and they were given.


The Second Amendment issue is an argument, but this is only because it exists as a Constitutional right. But do you know what else is in the Constitution? The Fifth Amendment requires that the power of eminent domain be coupled with "just compensation" for those whose property is taken. This makes the act of eminent domain Constitutional. Do you see how Liberals and Conservatives pick and choose when it comes to the Constitution? How can any Conservative hold up the Constitution to chastise a Liberal for his anti-gun posture, yet push the Constitution away to chastise eminent domain?

"just compensation" and nowhere in the constitution does it justify for private enterprise. Ask the poor black people displaced by the barclay's center if they got "just compensation".



None of your examples can be simplified in a way that we ignore the events, conduct, and development of our society.

Please rephrase.
 
I'm not sure what to call them... antiReverendHellhounders? Maybe left wingers. I'm not sure if that one has a real definition. Maybe statists, but then that just means people in favor of a big, strong central government, and could apply to most of the people both parties send to Washington. What they're not is liberals, as that word actually has a meaning.



Oh are you going to play the definition of "classical liberal" game?


I'm not interested.
 
What gun issue? liberals never talk about inner city violence. almost all gun crimes are between people who both have criminal records. less than 1% of all gun crimes/homicides are committed by "assault weapons" or gun show sold guns.

and 1985 and 90? why did you stop there?

Because that doubling of gun violence was the direct result of killing social programs that greatly affected inner city environments in the 1980s. Personally, I don't care about criminal on criminal violence. Let them shoot each other. I don't like that the country shrugs over mass killings.

I pointed out, simply what you ommitted.

It wasn't omission. It wasn't the topic. Surely, you aren't suggesting that my response to your remark wasn't politically correct enough. Because that, I would argue, is a Liberal thing.

Examples were asked for, and they were given.

I didn't ask for examples. You freely gave those to try to brand Liberals as opposing liberty. But the examples were petty. The mandatory wear of seat belts would be another petty example of your lack of liberty. Societies have laws. Nobody, has perfect freedom. Even our Constitution established that fact. The Libertarian's government would be in a constant state of reaction in order to deal with an anarchically society.


"just compensation" and nowhere in the constitution does it justify for private enterprise. Ask the poor black people displaced by the barclay's center if they got "just compensation".

Well, "just compensation" and private versus public are individual matters for a lawyer to deal with. And the government, the GOP specifically, loves eminent domain. Just look at how the railroad was built - subsidies (in a "free" market), corruption, and land seizures.

Please rephrase.

Meaning Constitutional issues must continue to be flexible as society moves forward. Meaning one case of eminent domain is not like another case of eminent domain. It is not about killing liberty. The traditional ulema's insistence to keep sharia fixed in brittle concrete in the thirteenth century is exactly why Muslim society was so weak in the nineteenth century and is a wreck today. The traditional ulema stopped reinterpreting the original sources, despite society still moving forward.

Our Constitution must be constantly reinterpreted to fit the needs of our social and technological advances and progress. This is why we have added Amendments. Still, cases vary and laws such as those that go to hate speech develop as the context of history rolls forward. We have corporations copyrighting simple everyday symbols and everyday items like an apple. Despite my freedom of expression, I have to ensure that if I draw an apple, it can't resemble the trademark. This is the sort of thing that has developed since the First Amendment got scribbled down on paper.
 
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Because that doubling of gun violence was the direct result of killing social programs that greatly affected inner city environments in the 1980s. Personally, I don't care about criminal on criminal violence. Let them shoot each other. I don't like that the country shrugs over mass killings.


1. so then it had to do nothing with actual guns and gun control.

2. if you are like me and dont care if they kill each other off, you then must realize that our gun rate if you take that element out is lower than most of western europe.


Therefore the liberal gun control agenda is bunk.


It wasn't omission. It wasn't the topic. Surely, you aren't suggesting that my response to your remark wasn't politically correct enough. Because that, I would argue, is a Liberal thing.

lol wut? you lost me.



I didn't ask for examples. You freely gave those to try to brand Liberals as opposing liberty. But the examples were petty. The mandatory wear of seat belts would be another petty example of your lack of liberty. Societies have laws. Nobody, has perfect freedom. Even our Constitution established that fact. The Libertarian's government would be in a constant state of reaction in order to deal with an anarchically society.

helmet laws as well. the constitution established limits on government, defered rights not enumerated to the people. no, a libertarian society would not be in such a state, libertarianism is not a death pact any more than liberal or conservatism is.


Well, "just compensation" and private versus public are individual matters for a lawyer to deal with. And the government, the GOP specifically, loves eminent domain. Just look at how the railroad was built - subsidies (in a "free" market), corruption, and land seizures.

Specifically eminent domain for private enterprise. see the examples I gave.


Meaning Constitutional issues must continue to be flexible as society moves forward. Meaning one case of eminent domain is not like another case of eminent domain. It is not about killing liberty. The traditional ulema's insistence to keep sharia fixed in brittle concrete in the thirteenth century is exactly why Muslim society was so weak in the nineteenth century and is a wreck today. The traditional ulema stopped reinterpreting the original sources, despite society still moving forward.

Cept what has to happen in our case is a constitutional convention, unlike the muslim sharia types what we hold dear protects our civil rights, what they hold dear oppresses them, it's in no way comparable.


Our Constitution must be constantly reinterpreted to fit the needs of our social and technological advances and progress. This is why we have added Amendments. Still, cases vary and laws such as those that go to hate speech develop as the context of history rolls forward. We have corporations copyrighting simple everyday symbols and everyday items like an apple. Despite my freedom of expression, I have to ensure that if I draw an apple, it can't resemble the trademark. This is the sort of thing that has developed since the First Amendment got scribbled down on paper.

Incorrect. if it is to be constantly re-interpreted, it's a meaningless document. what if they one day interpreted it to mean "free speech" only applied to government?
 
Cept what has to happen in our case is a constitutional convention, unlike the muslim sharia types what we hold dear protects our civil rights, what they hold dear oppresses them, it's in no way comparable.

Yes, it is. Don't get hung up cultural differences...

Sharia - Sacred Law, based on original sources, that needed to be reinterpreted through the context of time as society advanced.

Our laws - Law, based an original source, that needed to be reinterpreted through the context of time as society advanced.

Islam's condition in the nineteenth century was the result of ijtihad (independent thinking) being banned by the religious establishment, who's duty was to protect the society and the religion. They failed on both counts because they saw blasphemy in altering laws that those closer to Muhammad's seventh century established. Had lawmakers in the U.S. refused to address the Constitution and it inadequacies as society developed, we would still only have the Bill of Rights. BUT, the context of time, (Civil War, corporations, max population voter inclusion, etc.) demanded that the Constitution be amended as society moved forward.

What I am comparing is the sources, as they act as guidance to establishing laws in either culture.


Incorrect. if it is to be constantly re-interpreted, it's a meaningless document.

Case in point...

When the Constitution of the United States was ratified in 1788, the Framers intentionally excluded Native Americans. Article I, Section 2 reads, "Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States...excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons." The Three-Fifths Compromise at least recognized African slaves as being a part of the new nation in some fashion, thereby, placing them within the culture. "Indians," however, were absolutely excluded.

This Constitution had to be eventually amended because the original Bill of Rights failed to live up to the Declaration that "All Men are Created Equal."

Case in point...

Lawmakers have been reinterpreting the Second Amendment since the early twentieth century. The "Right to Bear Arms" is not a right to Bear anything. This is yet another item within the Bill of Rights that is constantly having to be reinterpreted as the context of time went from a musket to nuclear weapons. Reinterpretation has nothing to do with meaninglessness. All documents are subject to reinterpretation in the future. History develops because old documents get reinterpreted in order to compliment newly discovered sources. Our understandings may change, but the documents remain meaningful. The Constitution has never been treated as a document frozen in time. This, by the way, is how Islamists see the Quran - fixed in the seventh century and not subject to reinterpretation. This is why they argue to establish Muhammad's fabled state. By contrast, Americans do not insist that society remain fixed in our eighteenth century source of law. It moves, as we move.
 
The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the powah of the Force!

Stand in the ashes of billions of dead souls and ask the ghosts if the force matters. ;)

Javak for the win!
 
Impressive poll, liberals score a knock out. I guess they do suck!

Funny how the founding fathers were liberals and those loyal to the crown were conservative. See, things do change, except for Dems, they're always on the wrong side. JJ, they must have done something right. And before all the Repub's start puffing out their collective chests, they suck just as bad.
 
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