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Who was the best leader during WWII?

Who was the best actor in WWII?

  • Churchill

    Votes: 46 50.5%
  • Hirohito

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Hitler

    Votes: 4 4.4%
  • Mussolini

    Votes: 1 1.1%
  • Roosevelt

    Votes: 33 36.3%
  • Stalin

    Votes: 7 7.7%

  • Total voters
    91
What tangible benefit did the US gain? Stalin gained Eastern Europe. The US got to subsidize Western Europe. And let's not forget that Stalin's gains turned into threats against the US.

Besides, I don't think that Stalin had any issues with killing off large portions of his population.

the famed journalist Oriana Fallaci (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oriana_Fallaci) was a guest of the Yale Political Union and she talked about effective world leaders. she said the most effective leaders are amoral. She said immoral leaders-like Hitler and Mussolini invariably fail but some leaders who try to be Moral (Jimmy Carter she claimed) often fail as well. She said Stalin and Nixon were perfect examples of effective leaders who were amoral.

We never discussed Sir Winston.
 
I voted for Roosevelt, only because I couldn't vote for Roosevelt and Churchill.
 
Driving out the Soviets from E. Europe

The Britain that went home in 1945 was exhausted by 6 years of war. Not only flat broke but deeply in debt to the USA. The possibility of the UK launching a war against the USSR to remove them from Poland did not exist

PM Churchill did look into it, he ordered a military study by the UK General Staff. What came back was so lop-sidedly horrifying, that I'm not sure it's ever been completely declassified. (Some UK WWII reports & histories are still official secrets, to this day.) Churchill quietly shelved the study, & never mentioned the possibility of driving out the Soviets by force of arms again.

& yes, Churchill, Montgomery & the British high command in general were very very leery of repeating the infantry bloodbaths of WWI. It's why Churchill kept wanting to divert Allied troops to peripheral battles around Europe, instead of facing the Nazis head on across the English Channel.
 
Churchill
Hirohito
Hitler
Mussolini
Roosevelt
Stalin

I've had a tough time coming up with who the BEST actor is. It's easy to find the worst. There are plenty of bad candidates around, but I'm having a hard time finding the best, let alone a good option.

By best, I mean morally good. I don't mean the most successful. That obviously goes to Stalin. Who was the most morally upright leader during this time?

You are seeking "moral goodness" in this group? Moral itself being a very subjective term. Good luck on all that.
 
There was no realistic choice there

And we aided a genocidal Communist regime to dominate Eastern Europe for decades.

Well, the US could have declared war on the USSR. Except that we thought we'd need them to finish the war with Japan. & we'd painted ourselves into a corner, by presenting the war as a war of civilization against barbarism. It ruins the metaphor if as soon as the shooting's over, we declare war on our former ally. Plus in order ot overcome the overwhelming Soviet superiority in numbers of troops, arty tubes, tanks & on & on - we'd have had to nuke troop concentrations & strategic depots, rail & industrial centers, Moscow & its backup, & on & on. The Russians & then the USSR survived Napoleon & Hitler - we could have nuked them into submission, I suppose.

But I don't think we could have ever explained that to the US general population, nor to the World either. The World might have gone along with us, if we threatened everyone with nuclear fire. But that's hardly an auspicious start to the American Century. More likely, it would have closed the door on an era of good feelings for the US.

& the USSR had already fought off military incursions by Russia's former allies after the 1917 Russian Revolution. Stalin nor the USSR were about to allow potential enemies (Germany nor the West in general) to cozy up to the Soviet borders again anytime soon - as long as the USSR had anything to say about it.
 
Churchill did not betray Poland, either in 1940 or 1945. It was not he who returned Russians to near certain death in the USSR but his successor as PM Attlee, who took office in July 1945.

And, by the way I was at the time fine with bombing German civilians. Taking the view those those who made the tanks were as much a legitimate target s those who manned them in battle.

Not talking about justifying bombing civilians but there was this thing called the Battle of Britain that involved bombing English cities.
 
You can not limit to one. You had Roosevelt, Churchill, and Hitler. No matter good and evil, all possessed charisma, and the ability to lead their countries.
 
Per Albin Hansson, Swedish Prime Minister, was the best leader of WWll. He prepared his country for war, but kept it neutral right in the heart of Europe, and the country made a fortune from almost all the countries involved in the conflict. He rejected outright Hitler's demands. While war raged across Europe, his countrymen lived relatively comfortable, affluent lives, and there were very few shortages. He was also instrumental at helping Allied combatants, refugees, and Jews escape the Axis. Considering the circumstances, he did a better job than any other leaders of the period.
 
Of the choices listed I voted for Churchill, but I think Truman should have been on the list also. Truman had what was undoubtedly the most profound moral choice of the war: whether or not to drop the atomic bomb. When one considers that lives were being lost every day across the Far East and what the cost of an invasion would have been, bringing the war to the quickest conclusion possible is difficult to top.
 
What do you call the Marshall Plan?

A great idea by George Marshall. It is a pity, though, that none of the funds designed to revive the economies of Continental Europe came Britain's way.
 
During WWII? The US certainly sold everything that was requested of us to the Allies - ammo, arty, ships, aircraft, trucks, beef, grain, preserved food of all kinds, leather goods, POL, finished & semi-finished goods. We sold cash, we sold & extended credit, we traded goods for leases on bases & we did, in effect, lend credit & carried the Allies when their money & specie ran out. In effect, we had to come in on the side of the Allies eventually, we'd lent them a lot of money/credit, & if they lost the war, the US banking & financial system, & national economy would also have suffered - not as catastrophically as the Allies would have if they'd lost WWII, but still.

& given the choices, I think FDR was the best actor in WWII.

The US never did 'come in on the side of the allies'. It was attacked by Japan and Hitler then declared war on the US. If these two almost simultaneous events had not taken place it is doubtful if US public opinion would ever have tolerated the US entering the war.

I could not have voted for FDR because of his naive belief that Stalin was his friend and his willingness to talk to Stalin behind Churchill's back.
 
Not talking about justifying bombing civilians but there was this thing called the Battle of Britain that involved bombing English cities.

Now I am puzzled. Are you suggesting that Churchill was 'fine' with the bombing British cities and, therefore, was not a good leader? That was certainly not the opinion of the British at the time.
 
Churchill
Hirohito
Hitler
Mussolini
Roosevelt
Stalin

I've had a tough time coming up with who the BEST actor is. It's easy to find the worst. There are plenty of bad candidates around, but I'm having a hard time finding the best, let alone a good option.

By best, I mean morally good. I don't mean the most successful. That obviously goes to Stalin. Who was the most morally upright leader during this time?

So by meaning "morally good" you include these guys??

Hirohito, Hitler, Mussolini??
 
I didn't include Truman because he was there for only a short part of the war and arguably Roosevelt would have made the same decision.

Maybe...until faced with that decision....hard to know for sure

There was so much pressure not to use the devices

Especially from the design team, and the scientific community
 
When you're stuck between Nazis and Communists, you have to fight to survive. The Nazis weren't throwing them in Gulags.

No, they were "only" exterminating millions of innocent people. I hate to burst your bubble, but "fighting to survive" is much different than "actively and happily collaborating with Nazis", which is what the Cossacks did.
 
Churchill
Hirohito
Hitler
Mussolini
Roosevelt
Stalin

I've had a tough time coming up with who the BEST actor is. It's easy to find the worst. There are plenty of bad candidates around, but I'm having a hard time finding the best, let alone a good option.

By best, I mean morally good. I don't mean the most successful. That obviously goes to Stalin. Who was the most morally upright leader during this time?

Roosevelt would have to be my pick.

Among the Allies he was the most straightforward and open about his position. His goal was to end the war.

Churchill and Stalin were both very concerned about what the post war world would look like and based their proposals and strategies around that.

While I don't think Churchill and Stalin were bad people for wanting to expand/keep intact their empires, I think Roosevelt's aims and actions were morally superior.
 
Now I am puzzled. Are you suggesting that Churchill was 'fine' with the bombing British cities and, therefore, was not a good leader? That was certainly not the opinion of the British at the time.

No, I'm not. I'm just saying that bombing civilians wasn't unique to Churchill.
 
The US never did 'come in on the side of the allies'. It was attacked by Japan and Hitler then declared war on the US. If these two almost simultaneous events had not taken place it is doubtful if US public opinion would ever have tolerated the US entering the war..

The US was shipping vast amount of material and basically fighting a naval war in the Atlantic. Roosevelt had the US on the brink of war with the Axis powers well before public opinion wanted the US in the war.

Also...do you blame US public opinion?

I could not have voted for FDR because of his naive belief that Stalin was his friend and his willingness to talk to Stalin behind Churchill's back.
Someone had to act as the intermediary between the communist and the capitalist. To be honest...Churchill's strategies and policies were based on protecting the British Empire and Stalin's were to expand the USSR. Roosevelt acted as the non-biased party in the negotiations.

It worked as well....both Churchill and Stalin trusted Roosevelt. After the death of Roosevelt negotiations between the three parties changed.
 
It wasn't Churchill

The US never did 'come in on the side of the allies'. It was attacked by Japan and Hitler then declared war on the US. If these two almost simultaneous events had not taken place it is doubtful if US public opinion would ever have tolerated the US entering the war.

I could not have voted for FDR because of his naive belief that Stalin was his friend and his willingness to talk to Stalin behind Churchill's back.

US foreign policy under FDR was trending towards the US joining the war on the Allied side. We sold everything the Allies ordered or requested, we extended them credit & loans when they spent all their money & specie. US Navy escorted freighters halfway across the Atlantic towards UK. We supplied war materiel, food, finished goods & on & on. In preparing for the war, we planned out agencies to coordinate production, prepared to ration food, strategic materials, prepared to establish a military draft, prepared to construct military training camps, airfields, expand ports, run critical industrial production 24/7, upped the defense budget repeatedly, prepped to float war bond issues, & on & on.

With US Navy escorting freighters in the N. Atlantic, it was only a matter of time before a U-boat attacked a US Navy ship - & our ships had orders to defend themselves. We would have shortly found ourselves in the shooting war in any event.

FDR was anything but naïve - look @ his record on his handling of important public issues. Of course he knew that Stalin wasn't his friend. The FBI saw bogeymen under every bed, but in the case of the USSR, they were right. If hopelessly overmatched in terms of tradecraft & the sheer number of agents & spies & the reasons why they acted for the Soviets - & so the FBI (& Army & Navy & Marine intelligence, the State Dept. Intel) were all blind to many of the penetrations. The Soviets ran serious intel efforts against everybody in the West with military or economic or diplomatic force (& especially the US, as we'd been important in WWI & looked to be important again in WWII).

A glance @ West/Soviet history should have told the FBI & the alphabet soup of US intel agencies everything they needed to know: The Communist Party nor Stalin ever forgot that the West invaded Russia, & intervened militarily against the Soviets & in favor of the White Russians. & Stalin never forgave. Soviet efforts in the US dated back to @ least the 1920s.

As for Churchill - he & the Brit military were forever trying to buffalo US forces & FDR. Churchill was trying to avoid massive Brit casualties, as in WWI - & @ the same time preserve the Brit Empire as much as possible. The two goals were contradictory. & so Churchill dithered, & pissed & moaned about the cross-Channel invasion, even though he had committed UK to the effort. Instead, he & Brit military wanted to nibble @ the periphery of Europe, hare off to the Balkans & advance northwards, cutting off the Soviet military & saving Europe from the Communists. As if UK & Commonwealth could man & equip, transport & sustain, produce the armaments & ammo, tanks, planes, ships, railways & trains. The whole notion was ludicrous - it would have been a fool's mission to even try to get between the Nazi forces & their allies on the one hand, & the Soviet forces & their allies on the other. It wasn't going to happen.

Churchill eventually became obstructionist, & kept undercutting Eisenhower in the ETO, & trying to install Montgomery or Brit High Command in charge of ETO, even when everyone could see that the US effort (1942 on) was massively greater than UK's contribution. We needed Stalin to invade Japan, as he'd agreed. Up until we nuked Japan, we assumed we'd have to invade or blockade Japan & starve them into submission. As Britain began to groan under the weight of US troops & equipment & materiel & depots, Chruchill became desperate to have the Brit Navy do something in the PTO - else the US forces (& Anzac) could argue that they'd done all the heavy lifting there - which was mostly the truth.
 
The reason I can't choose Churchill is because he was always fine bombing civilians and his ultimate betrayal of Poland which is why Britain went to war in the first place. He also betrayed plenty of those like the Cossacks who fought against the Soviets but were ultimately sent back to Stalin.

Wars were fought differently back then. You had the London Blitz and the use of the V1 and V2 rockets by Hitler. Churchill certainly did authorize firebombing of German cities and Roosevelt did the same for Tokyo Japan. Stalin leveled every German city as he went for Berlin and who knows how many civilians he killed. Both in the USSR and in Germany and later in Eastern Europe. Mussolini was a lost cause and had to be rescued by the Germans. With Tojo in charge in Japan, perhaps Hirohito was just a bystander who couldn't really challenge the military. Then you have the biological use in China by the Japanese and the experiments in China also conducted by the Japanese.

The thing is one must view WWII in the context of the way it was fought, the era in which it was fought and what was the normal rules of war. Bombing cities for the most part wasn't to kill civilians, it was to destroy manufacturing of war materials. Although Hitler thought he could destroy the English moral with the London Blitz. Placing WWII into the context of war used today isn't right in my book.

I think the choice comes down to two. Churchill who saved England and Western Europe by his bulldog stance or Stalin who finally captured Berlin and gained Eastern Europe in the process. Being biased against Stalin and communism, I'll go with Churchill.
 
Re: It wasn't Churchill

US foreign policy under FDR was trending towards the US joining the war on the Allied side. We sold everything the Allies ordered or requested, we extended them credit & loans when they spent all their money & specie. US Navy escorted freighters halfway across the Atlantic towards UK. We supplied war materiel, food, finished goods & on & on. In preparing for the war, we planned out agencies to coordinate production, prepared to ration food, strategic materials, prepared to establish a military draft, prepared to construct military training camps, airfields, expand ports, run critical industrial production 24/7, upped the defense budget repeatedly, prepped to float war bond issues, & on & on.

With US Navy escorting freighters in the N. Atlantic, it was only a matter of time before a U-boat attacked a US Navy ship - & our ships had orders to defend themselves. We would have shortly found ourselves in the shooting war in any event.

FDR was anything but naïve - look @ his record on his handling of important public issues. Of course he knew that Stalin wasn't his friend. The FBI saw bogeymen under every bed, but in the case of the USSR, they were right. If hopelessly overmatched in terms of tradecraft & the sheer number of agents & spies & the reasons why they acted for the Soviets - & so the FBI (& Army & Navy & Marine intelligence, the State Dept. Intel) were all blind to many of the penetrations. The Soviets ran serious intel efforts against everybody in the West with military or economic or diplomatic force (& especially the US, as we'd been important in WWI & looked to be important again in WWII).

A glance @ West/Soviet history should have told the FBI & the alphabet soup of US intel agencies everything they needed to know: The Communist Party nor Stalin ever forgot that the West invaded Russia, & intervened militarily against the Soviets & in favor of the White Russians. & Stalin never forgave. Soviet efforts in the US dated back to @ least the 1920s.

As for Churchill - he & the Brit military were forever trying to buffalo US forces & FDR. Churchill was trying to avoid massive Brit casualties, as in WWI - & @ the same time preserve the Brit Empire as much as possible. The two goals were contradictory. & so Churchill dithered, & pissed & moaned about the cross-Channel invasion, even though he had committed UK to the effort. Instead, he & Brit military wanted to nibble @ the periphery of Europe, hare off to the Balkans & advance northwards, cutting off the Soviet military & saving Europe from the Communists. As if UK & Commonwealth could man & equip, transport & sustain, produce the armaments & ammo, tanks, planes, ships, railways & trains. The whole notion was ludicrous - it would have been a fool's mission to even try to get between the Nazi forces & their allies on the one hand, & the Soviet forces & their allies on the other. It wasn't going to happen.

Churchill eventually became obstructionist, & kept undercutting Eisenhower in the ETO, & trying to install Montgomery or Brit High Command in charge of ETO, even when everyone could see that the US effort (1942 on) was massively greater than UK's contribution. We needed Stalin to invade Japan, as he'd agreed. Up until we nuked Japan, we assumed we'd have to invade or blockade Japan & starve them into submission. As Britain began to groan under the weight of US troops & equipment & materiel & depots, Chruchill became desperate to have the Brit Navy do something in the PTO - else the US forces (& Anzac) could argue that they'd done all the heavy lifting there - which was mostly the truth.

There is much here with which to agree.

However the record shows that the dying FDR did indeed believe that he had the measure of Stalin and that they could reach agreements that would stick. It took almost two years for the Americans to fully realise that the Russians had played them for fools. In this respect Fdr's legacy was a poor one.
 
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