Is there such a thing as a trans-race person?

TheGoverness said:

No. If you're white, you're white. If you're black, you're black.

That's it.

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And if you're Elizabeth Warren, you're a chameleon.

truthatallcost said:

And if you're Elizabeth Warren, you're a chameleon.

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Does that make Trump a lizard?

Soopairik said:

Does that make Trump a lizard?

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No, it makes him Carrot Top.

Sorry, the jokes just ain't comin tonight.

Transgender people aren't going to share the spotlight yet with these transracial folks. But I think the transracial thing is going to be a common thing in the future.

Absentglare said:

It's fine to associate with a culture. It's not fine to re-appropriate that culture. So Eminem is fine (as being, himself, a rap musician), but Elvis was being a dick (by ripping off black musicians).

One difference with race is that we shouldn't generally be referring to or distinguishing one another by race. That isn't the case with gender, where we often use gender specific pronouns. We don't use race specific pronouns, so there's no general reason for her race to be called into question. There certainly isn't any need for anyone else to label her black or white.

She grew up with her whiteness bringing majority privilege, so she shouldn't be using diversity initiatives to further realize her personal aspirations. Other than that, i don't really care what she calls herself, and i don't recognize any specific obligations on what other people call her. My honest feeling is that she's being a bit self-centered and not respecting the full scope of the reality of race relations.

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The bolded seems like a contradiction.

I'm curious why is Elvis a dick, where did he rip off black artists? He is no different than Eminem. I find it funny that you would call him a dick when it can be argued that his influence helped push the civil rights movement forward. One of the best parts of music, other arts, and sports is that it helps bring people regardless of race together and forget about their differences. He even came out with a song about racial harmony and a tribute to MLK after his assassination (if I can dream), sounds like quite the asshole.

Nap said:

The bolded seems like a contradiction.

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Bit of a paradox i suppose; i did say "generally" and discussing race with respect to diversity programs that seek to improve race relations are a major exception.

Nap said:

I'm curious why is Elvis a dick, where did he rip off black artists?

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Yeah i went off to go research to "prove" my understanding and i found that i was completely wrong, actually. Not only did Elvis not simply steal songs from black artists, he also credited black musicians for inspiring his style.

So you're right, i was wrong.

Nap said:

He is no different than Eminem. I find it funny that you would call him a dick when it can be argued that his influence helped push the civil rights movement forward.

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You're right.

"Oops"
-Rick Perry

Nap said:

One of the best parts of music, other arts, and sports is that it helps bring people regardless of race together and forget about their differences. He even came out with a song about racial harmony and a tribute to MLK after his assassination (if I can dream), sounds like quite the asshole.

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Okay.

Absentglare said:

Bit of a paradox i suppose; i did say "generally" and discussing race with respect to diversity programs that seek to improve race relations are a major exception.



Yeah i went off to go research to "prove" my understanding and i found that i was completely wrong, actually. Not only did Elvis not simply steal songs from black artists, he also credited black musicians for inspiring his style.

So you're right, i was wrong.



You're right.

"Oops"
-Rick Perry



Okay.

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Lol, to be perfectly honest when I read your post I had to do research on it also and reading about the kind of person Elvis was and seeing people refer to him as racist or stealing from black people to tarnish his legacy was pretty infuriating. Thanks to your post it lead to me gaining a tremendous amount of respect for the man.

Nap said:

Lol, to be perfectly honest when I read your post I had to do research on it also and reading about the kind of person Elvis was and seeing people refer to him as racist or stealing from black people to tarnish his legacy was pretty infuriating. Thanks to your post it lead to me gaining a tremendous amount of respect for the man.

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I think i understand where some of those people were coming from. A lot of those black musicians that helped influence Elvis didn't see commercial success themselves, so they were bitter that Elvis was so monumentally successful. But it certainly wasn't Elvis' fault that they weren't successful, so it looks like misplaced rage to me. If anything, Elvis popularized the genre.

Absentglare said:

I think i understand where some of those people were coming from. A lot of those black musicians that helped influence Elvis didn't see commercial success themselves, so they were bitter that Elvis was so monumentally successful. But it certainly wasn't Elvis' fault that they weren't successful, so it looks like misplaced rage to me. If anything, Elvis popularized the genre.

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True, I can fully understand why they would feel that way at the time and it would be pretty upsetting to say the least. Like you said it wasn't the fault of Elvis but of society at that time. Seeing some of the quotes of people like Ali, BB King, James Brown among others that had a personal relationship with him gives a drastically different view of Elvis the man and the perception of Elvis the entertainer.

Absentglare said:

It's fine to associate with a culture. It's not fine to re-appropriate that culture. So Eminem is fine (as being, himself, a rap musician), but Elvis was being a dick (by ripping off black musicians).

One difference with race is that we shouldn't generally be referring to or distinguishing one another by race. That isn't the case with gender, where we often use gender specific pronouns. We don't use race specific pronouns, so there's no general reason for her race to be called into question. There certainly isn't any need for anyone else to label her black or white.

She grew up with her whiteness bringing majority privilege, so she shouldn't be using diversity initiatives to further realize her personal aspirations. Other than that, i don't really care what she calls herself, and i don't recognize any specific obligations on what other people call her. My honest feeling is that she's being a bit self-centered and not respecting the full scope of the reality of race relations.

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Have you read the book?

As I said, I'm torn on Dolezal but I approached the book with an open mind, and you say she's self centred but that doesn't come accross in the book. Being black is no easy ride in Montana, Mississippi and other places she's lived hence passing as black wasn't exactly choosing the easy ride. Even if one isn't convinced by her reasons for identifying as black, selfishness or passing for ease does not come accross in her story, for me.

I think this issue might be different in other countries too. Certain details of the book are shocking to the European reader: that your race is specified on certain official documents, that there are "black" and "white" universities as opposed to just "universities" etc. In many respects Dolezal is shaped by her environment, and I do believe the US is race-obsessed. Her story may have been different had she been born in London or Berlin for example.

How do people react to somebody like tha late Teena Marie (awesome singer btw), who never claimed to be black, never identified as black, but having grown up in a black neighbourhood often said things like she was born in the wrong skin, felt black in her soul etc. and ends up recording R&B for the Motown label? Did Dolezal just go one step further? Is "Black" a social label when so many "black" people in the US actually look very white?

Two aspects of Dolezal's argument disappointed me. She's bisexual yet for all her advocacy work she puts LGBT advocacy on the back burner out of "respect" for the elder church going types she meets through the NAACP. Where does she get this hierarchy of injustice from? She's done so much advocacy work, shouldn't she equally be challenging homophobia everywhere, including in the black community? She also mentions black kids adopted into white families sometimes "not knowing they're black" - yet if she can choose to identify as black due to her experiences and feelings, can those kids, having grown up with only white influences around them, not also feel in the wrong skin? Can this only go one way for Dolezal?

I'm white and I'm with a black man. I hang out alot with his sisters and cousins and am probably more exposed to African culture than the average white person where I live. Now there are many aspects of African culture I like and identify with, but I would never claim to be African or black. I'm white with definite European heritage - so what makes somebody like Dolezal want to cross that line? Is it something within her that she has no control over? And if we accept gender fluidity and transgenderism, why should race be so biolgically defined? Can we see race in a post-modern context?

As I say, I'm torn. I'm neither convinced by nor dismissive of Dolezal's arguments. But she does challenge our conceptions of race and I find her story fascinating.