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**** it. Split the country, we're done.

Split up the country?

  • Yes, split.

    Votes: 17 15.2%
  • No, stay.

    Votes: 72 64.3%
  • Yes, BUT... (explain)

    Votes: 7 6.3%
  • Rootebega

    Votes: 16 14.3%

  • Total voters
    112
  • Poll closed .

Goshin

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Time to admit that hyper partisanship has gone beyond politics and is tearing us apart and destroying us as a nation.

Maybe it is time to split the country, probably into States.

The Fedgov has grown ridiculously over powered. When people on both sides are literally having meltdowns at the idea of the "other side" controlling the Fedgov, that says the Fedgov is too powerful. As the country was originally structured, the average citizen should barely CARE who the President is, because the President wasn't supposed to have any real impact on the daily life of Joe Citizen.

Now, we panic at the idea of ONE SCOTUS justice being appointed by the Other side. We have literal meltdowns bordering on psychosis about the Other side controlling the Fedgov.

We have literal fighting in the streets over it.


Either way you slice it, whoever wins control, tens of millions of people think they're getting screwed hard, and in some ways they're not wrong.

It's like the Bad Old Days in Britain when everyone panicked about whether the King was Protestant or Catholic. When the King was one sort, the other sort got trampled and oppressed. It went back and forth and that sort of thing is why we have the First Amendment and no national religion.

Well it is happening again, only political party or ideology is the thing dividing us.

Both sides want to do things a certain way, that the Other side sees as oppressive and unreasonable.


Maybe it is time for a divorce. Separate the nation into the States again, as independent polities, and let them govern themselves as they see fit, and sink or swim according to their own preferred ideologies.

The one thing that needs to remain is the right of the People to vote with their feet, and leave a State that doesn't suit them for one that does.

I suppose we'd have to keep some sort of minimal Federation (of STATES) to administer the nukes, and a much-reduced Air Force and Navy. Some kind of fixed apportionment among the States to fund same, say maybe 3% of the GDP divided by population of the states. That would cut the military budget by a third or so... plenty enough to defend the country still, if not to engage overseas so much.


Conservatives, you know you're tired of so much national policy being determined by NY and California.

Liberals, you know you're tired of the Red States "holding you back".

Let it go and be free. Do your thing, but in your own state. If "your thing" is as great as you think it is, over the next couple decades you'll have people and businesses flocking to your state and you'll prosper. You won't have to worry about the Fedgov imposing ideologies you hate on you because of voters in those "Other" states.


Is it time? Vote in the poll.
 
Incidentally, "Rootebega" was included in the poll because it is a rational response to the current insanity plaguing the nation.


It could be construed as equivalent to "**** it".
 
It is time to do the very best we can do to act like adults.

Yes, I understand what a daunting prospect this is.
 
THe extremes of either would suck.
 
It is time to do the very best we can do to act like adults.

Yes, I understand what a daunting prospect this is.



Do you see any evidence of a mass outbreak of Adultyness occurring anytime soon?
 
Given the percentage of GDP that is produced in liberal areas, this would be extremely detrimental to conservative states.

Plus there is no solution for those of us who live in liberal cities smack dab in the middle of conservative states....like North Carolina. The economy in NC is driven by the liberal areas, but the conservatives have a stranglehold on our legislature thanks to gerrymandering. I'd just be happy with legit political districts that take us back to being what we are: a swing state.
 
The version of the federal government that many want is essentially the model used by the EU, only with a central army.
 
The main problem here is that this is not a regional or geographic split like the Civil War between North and South. You have pockets within the almost all the states where people are split along political lines. So how do you divide that ?
 
Time to admit that hyper partisanship has gone beyond politics and is tearing us apart and destroying us as a nation.

Maybe it is time to split the country, probably into States.

The Fedgov has grown ridiculously over powered. When people on both sides are literally having meltdowns at the idea of the "other side" controlling the Fedgov, that says the Fedgov is too powerful. As the country was originally structured, the average citizen should barely CARE who the President is, because the President wasn't supposed to have any real impact on the daily life of Joe Citizen.

Now, we panic at the idea of ONE SCOTUS justice being appointed by the Other side. We have literal meltdowns bordering on psychosis about the Other side controlling the Fedgov.

We have literal fighting in the streets over it.


Either way you slice it, whoever wins control, tens of millions of people think they're getting screwed hard, and in some ways they're not wrong.

It's like the Bad Old Days in Britain when everyone panicked about whether the King was Protestant or Catholic. When the King was one sort, the other sort got trampled and oppressed. It went back and forth and that sort of thing is why we have the First Amendment and no national religion.

Well it is happening again, only political party or ideology is the thing dividing us.

Both sides want to do things a certain way, that the Other side sees as oppressive and unreasonable.


Maybe it is time for a divorce. Separate the nation into the States again, as independent polities, and let them govern themselves as they see fit, and sink or swim according to their own preferred ideologies.

The one thing that needs to remain is the right of the People to vote with their feet, and leave a State that doesn't suit them for one that does.

I suppose we'd have to keep some sort of minimal Federation (of STATES) to administer the nukes, and a much-reduced Air Force and Navy. Some kind of fixed apportionment among the States to fund same, say maybe 3% of the GDP divided by population of the states. That would cut the military budget by a third or so... plenty enough to defend the country still, if not to engage overseas so much.


Conservatives, you know you're tired of so much national policy being determined by NY and California.

Liberals, you know you're tired of the Red States "holding you back".

Let it go and be free. Do your thing, but in your own state. If "your thing" is as great as you think it is, over the next couple decades you'll have people and businesses flocking to your state and you'll prosper. You won't have to worry about the Fedgov imposing ideologies you hate on you because of voters in those "Other" states.


Is it time? Vote in the poll.

Well, I live in a conservative state, so.....
 
The main problem here is that this is not a regional or geographic split like the Civil War between North and South. You have pockets within the almost all the states where people are split along political lines. So how do you divide that ?

You don't. It's not even close to being feasible.
 
Given the percentage of GDP that is produced in liberal areas, this would be extremely detrimental to conservative states.

Plus there is no solution for those of us who live in liberal cities smack dab in the middle of conservative states....like North Carolina. The economy in NC is driven by the liberal areas, but the conservatives have a stranglehold on our legislature thanks to gerrymandering. I'd just be happy with legit political districts that take us back to being what we are: a swing state.


State problem. You can stay and try to fix it, or move to a blue state.

Under our current system though, you're so subject to the Fedgov that your State gov issues are minor in comparison.
 
Well, I live in a conservative state, so.....


If the split happened, and you don't like the state you're in, you can move to another with a different governing ideology.

Under the current situation, you're subject to whichever pack of idiots runs the Fedgov no matter where you move, unless you move out of the entire country.
 
State problem. You can stay and try to fix it, or move to a blue state.

Under our current system though, you're so subject to the Fedgov that your State gov issues are minor in comparison.

Actually, the federal system has far less effect on my daily life than the state system does, so I'll be sticking around to fix our state.
 
Do you see any evidence of a mass outbreak of Adultyness occurring anytime soon?

Nope, I have concluded that only BIG PAIN can work here, we are too far gone for anything less traumatic to get through.

And let's be very clear, I blame the Elite Class for that.

America has been very poorly lead for a long time.

Now we pay for it.
 
The main problem here is that this is not a regional or geographic split like the Civil War between North and South. You have pockets within the almost all the states where people are split along political lines. So how do you divide that ?


The obvious answer is by states, and if you don't like the way your state is governed, move to another. In time it will probably settle out, with most "blues" living in Blue states and most "Reds" living in Red states. And maybe some that are mixed, or some that go out of the box.
 
It doesn't really solve the source of the problems, but liberals would have the freedom to do so if they weren't constrained by conservatives, so i guess i'm okay with letting conservatives fester in a corrupt hellhole of their own making.
 
The alternative to splitting things up is that large groups of angry people are going to feel oppressed, and it has already reached the point of violence.


What's the alternative?


This isn't simply an unhappy marriage, it is an abusive one.
 
Conservatives, you know you're tired of so much national policy being determined by NY and California.

Liberals, you know you're tired of the Red States "holding you back".

I have believed for years the United States is far too big of a nation trying to represent far too many ideologies/world-views. Let the states split and decide if they want to form new nations with nearby states. And good luck to the Southeastern states getting along without DC money...
 
Given the percentage of GDP that is produced in liberal areas, this would be extremely detrimental to conservative states.

Plus there is no solution for those of us who live in liberal cities smack dab in the middle of conservative states....like North Carolina. The economy in NC is driven by the liberal areas, but the conservatives have a stranglehold on our legislature thanks to gerrymandering. I'd just be happy with legit political districts that take us back to being what we are: a swing state.

Build a wall around each liberal city and force conservatives to lay siege if they want to take it!
 
The alternative to splitting things up is that large groups of angry people are going to feel oppressed, and it has already reached the point of violence.


What's the alternative?

Going back to doing combat in the Arena For the Free and Fair Combat of Ideas instead of physical violence, with all agreeing that the winners win and losers lose , with concern for minority rights.

AKA Acting Like Adults
 
I have believed for years the United States is far too big of a nation trying to represent far too many ideologies/world-views. Let the states split and decide if they want to form new nations with nearby states. And good luck to the Southeastern states getting along without DC money...


We'd manage. If you don't live here, you don't have to worry about it anymore.
 
Well, I live in a conservative state, so.....

You are lucky. They are mostly more progressive in an intelligent way and less bigoted than today’s liberals.
 
Incidentally, "Rootebega" was included in the poll because it is a rational response to the current insanity plaguing the nation.


It could be construed as equivalent to "**** it".

It's spelled "rutabaga." (That's "swede" for the English, "neep" for the Scottish, and "turnip" for the Cornish.)
 
Going back to doing combat in the Arena For the Free and Fair Combat of Ideas instead of physical violence, and all agreeing that the winners win, with concern for minority rights.



Let me know how that works out. I haven't seen much FAIR combat in the arena of ideas for quite some time.

And there's always the question of whether the losing 49% will tolerate what the winning 51% plan to impose on them.
 
The obvious answer is by states, and if you don't like the way your state is governed, move to another. In time it will probably settle out, with most "blues" living in Blue states and most "Reds" living in Red states. And maybe some that are mixed, or some that go out of the box.

I just do not see that as practical at all. It defies the reality that within states there are blue and red pockets and some purple in between and people are simply NOT going to move because politics is important to folks like you and I and its not to them.

For example - I live in Michigan which is normally a blue DEM state. But there are tons and tons of people up north who love the part of Michigan they live in and would not at all be happy about moving to a state where they are the majority. And no doubt there are some progressives who live along the gulf coast in Alabama who feel the same way.

It just does not seem practical at all.
 
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