Have you ever been sexually harassed or assaulted?

pillars said:

Just curious how widespread this problem is and how many people are affected by it. This poll is anonymous and you can select as many options as apply.

I became curious because of the #metoo hashtag on facebook and twitter, and realizing how many of my friends had been subjected to unwanted sexual attention.

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I'm not really sure this qualifies, but I'll tell the story anyway.

When I was a kid about the age of 6, there were two older kids in my neighborhood, and they would make me play games with them that were definitely inappropriate. They were themselves only 7 and 8, so realistically they likely wouldn't have known much better me that this kind of thing was wrong. I never really considered it assault or harrassment, and I don't believe it had any kind of effect on me long term. However, as a kid I assumed that this kind of thing was normal. The result is that later on, I played these same kinds of games with other younger kids. One of which was a girl. I'm not really sure if that had any effect on them either, and I like to think that as adults it's water under the bridge and no big deal. I really have no idea if that sort of thing is common or what kind of effect it might have on an average young person.

pillars said:

Just curious how widespread this problem is and how many people are affected by it. This poll is anonymous and you can select as many options as apply.

I became curious because of the #metoo hashtag on facebook and twitter, and realizing how many of my friends had been subjected to unwanted sexual attention.

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Well it is without a doubt a problem, the issue is some people throw many things together in one pot and that shouldn't be the case but we have a habit of doing that here in america with sex stuff in general.

I'm a male and I have been harassed twice in the business world.
Per your definition of assaulted I have been assaulted (groped, grabbed, humped, etc.) numerous times. 10 maybe? and to keep that number low im talking about assaults where I had little to zero interaction with the girl. Other things I dont know if i consider assaults but i very well might if i was a girl and thats where things get muddy. Again theres no justification for assault and harassment just saying its not defined so well and varies greatly person to person.

bearpoker said:

Ick!!

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pillars said:

Shame on them. I'm appalled.

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I can understand your response but the fact of the matter is that when a little alcohol gets introduced it's not unusual for people, women included, to make decisions they'd otherwise refrain from.

Trust me, at 22 or so I wasn't thrilled to have a woman my grandmother's age grab my junk (and her friends at the table were kind of taken aback) but it was FAR more surprising than it was threatening. Hell, my second thought was about how much of a tip I'd get.

I had women grab me with their husbands sitting right there. I had a mother daughter team grope and more "accidental" gropes than I can count. I can't say that I ever really thought of it as "assault" or "harassment". It's not like there was a quid pro quo attached and the women generally seemed like they were having fun.

HowardBThiname said:

Did you feel violated? Did you go straight to the media and insist that they plaster the women's names in the paper?

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I just collected my very generous gratuity and finished my shift. It's not like I was having nightmares about it.

bearpoker said:

I'm appalled too.

Just curious--is your everyday garb a raincoat?

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Do you think that every pass a man makes toward his wife when they're in bed is a sexual assault unless she specifically tells him she wants sex before he touches her?

pillars said:

Rape - unwanted sexual penetration of the anus, mouth or vagina.
Sexual assault - unwanted sexual groping, grabbing, humping, touching, etc.
Sexual harassment - unwanted verbal demands for sex, harassing sexual comments, etc.

Is that enough of a definition or do you need me to pull out the dictionary?

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I've had women I did not desire touch me in sexual ways—sometimes a friend as a joke and other times strangers or acquaintances as something else.
And, they've definitively made unwanted comments and requests for sex and sexual favors [idk about 'demands' per se].

But I've never had a boss stipulate that I need to perform sexual favors for work related boons.

pillars said:

:lamo

No.

But 5 years ago, my 14 year old son and about a dozen of his friends were sexually assaulted (groped, grabbed, fondled) by an adult religious leader. All of these boys have really struggled...several became suicidal, many lost their faith, almost all have dealt with depression/anxiety, some started using drugs. The boys finally started speaking up this year, and once one came out of the closet, quite a few others have followed. My son never spoke about it until he was contacted by the detective who is investigating the case. Since that time, the PD has filed over a dozen charges for grabbing, groping, fondling, spooning by this man with young guys over a 6-7 year period.

I'm glad that this issue hasn't touched you as closely as it has me. But it's something my family has been dealing with for quite some time, and it definitely hits close to home.

I'm being open about this because you don't seem to understand that this sort of thing actually harms people. But it does.

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I can certainly see your point of view in that situation and I hope your son recovers fully and quickly. There is a big problem with people in positions of authority taking advantage of others because the ones they're taking advantage of are often under emotional pressure to put up with it.

Religious leaders, coaches, teachers are among the worst for doing that. That creates a true predator-victim problem.

I'm talking mainly about chance encounters at parties, etc., where the participants are all there willingly.

HowardBThiname said:

I can certainly see your point of view in that situation and I hope your son recovers fully and quickly. There is a big problem with people in positions of authority taking advantage of others because the ones they're taking advantage of are often under emotional pressure to put up with it.

Religious leaders, coaches, teachers are among the worst for doing that. That creates a true predator-victim problem.

I'm talking mainly about chance encounters at parties, etc., where the participants are all there willingly.

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You don't think there was a power imbalance between a 26 year old Kevin Spacey and a 14 year old child actor?

HowardBThiname said:

Do you think that every pass a man makes toward his wife when they're in bed is a sexual assault unless she specifically tells him she wants sex before he touches her?

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Are you being a douche on purpose?

HowardBThiname said:

Do you think that every pass a man makes toward his wife when they're in bed is a sexual assault unless she specifically tells him she wants sex before he touches her?

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I'm just applying your own logic to you. Do you think everyone should be out grabbing and groping passersby because they're feeling frisky?

Aristaeus said:

Are you being a douche on purpose?

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I'm only asking because in today's world, no means no, so if a man grabs his wife in bed and she isn't in the mood, that would qualify as sexual assault.

Or, do you believe that wives "owe" their husbands and have no right to say no?

bearpoker said:

I'm just applying your own logic to you. Do you think everyone should be out grabbing and groping passersby because they're feeling frisky?

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LOL

Let's hope is doesn't come to that!

HowardBThiname said:

I'm only asking because in today's world, no means no, so if a man grabs his wife in bed and she isn't in the mood, that would qualify as sexual assault.

Or, do you believe that wives "owe" their husbands and have no right to say no?

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A wife doesn't need to literally give verbal consent every time - common sense comes into play. But if she has said no and the husband continues to grab her, then it could certainly be sexual assault.

You're either saying stupid things on purpose or you've never been in a relationship.

HowardBThiname said:

LOL

Let's hope is doesn't come to that!

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I actually have been groped like that. It was on a sidewalk in the daytime. No alcohol involved as far as I know. I don't know how common a thing it is.

Now I voted no, even though some people might consider that I have, actually by gay guys in the distant past, but since it didn't bother me, since I didn't see it as harassing and don't get butt-hurt by meaningless things like that, I had to say no. I find the whole "they looked at me wrong, I've been raped" nonsense to be ridiculous.

Lutherf said:

Yes. As a college student working in restaurants and country clubs I was groped by customers/members on multiple occasions. Some women are just plain crazy.

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I would consider that sexual assault unless you gave actual or implied consent or encouraged it in any way or didn't mind it or decided you would tolerate it in return for bigger tips or whatever. Assault is definitely a different animal from harassment though.

For myself, I am at an age now that harassment is not a problem as I don't consider it at all insulting to be referred to as honey, sweetie, missy, little lady, pretty lady, etc.

Nor did I mind that when I was younger as I would just turn the tables and give as good as I got. I also didn't consider it harassment if a male coworker, even a boss, asked me out or even propositioned me--at the time I was in a relationship and just politely declined and that was that. If our male coworkers tried to get our goats by posting provocative female photos/posters in plain sight, we girls just waited until they were out of the room and used crayons or markers to 'dress' the naked or near naked ladies and then were the models of innocence. The creepy guy who made me uncomfortable was simply avoided and was the butt of jokes during coffee breaks or over lunch.

But by modern definitions, yes I was subject to a lot of sexual misconduct as a young woman. The difference between then and now is I didn't consider it sexual misconduct because I intuitively knew that men and women are attracted to each other and considered that attraction to be a normal thing and not a criminal offense. And yes, there is often a lot of discussion, joking around, bragging, and provocative imagery thrown around when a bunch of young women are talking about guys and I'm sure the guys do that too.

I think women do other women no favor when they go after these huge settlements for 'sexual harassment' as it is far too easy for the unscrupulous to use that kind of climate unethically for personal gain. Especially when they are just itching for any reason to accuse a guy. And I think that is happening a lot now. And the net result is less opportunity for women because men will hesitate to hire women for anything other than benign group environments out of fear of predatory women suing them for sexual harassment.

And I think it is patently absurd that women spend a fortune on clothes, accessories, hair, makeup, manicures, etc. to be as attractive and appealing as possible and then are offended if a guy at work responds to that.

But unsolicited groping or other touching constituting sexual assault should receive a very sharp and emphatic angry response. And if repeated should be dealt with appropriately including reporting the offender. And rape or attempted rape is a criminal offense and should be dealt with as a criminal offense.

When I was 20, I was working as an electrician's apprentice at a job site. I was walking away from the foreman and I swear I heard him say "look at that ass". I turned around and he was gawking at me with his mouth open. I spent the rest of the day trying to decide whether I was crazy or if he really said that. Later on he often came back from lunch smelling of wine and was getting too close to another new worker. I then realized this dude is nasty and is lucky he didn't get stomped out.

It made me think it would really suck to be a female and be harassed like that and often in situations in which they are at a large physical disadvantage. That would make you feel even smaller and more vulnerable.

HowardBThiname said:

I see what you did there -- tried to sneak in your own definition of "sexual assault."

Let's see what the real definition is, according to the Dept. of Justice.


https://www.justice.gov/ovw/sexual-assault

Grabbed and groped (unless genitals were involved, called "fondling") don't qualify. Don't see dry humped on the list either.

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Yes, it does. If you try to grope/touch someone without their consent, them yes, it is sexual assault.

HowardBThiname said:

I'm only asking because in today's world, no means no, so if a man grabs his wife in bed and she isn't in the mood, that would qualify as sexual assault.

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No, it wouldn't. What would qualify as sexual assault, is if he continues to grab her even after she says no.

pillars said:

Rape - unwanted sexual penetration of the anus, mouth or vagina.
Sexual assault - unwanted sexual groping, grabbing, humping, touching, etc.
Sexual harassment - unwanted verbal demands for sex, harassing sexual comments, etc.

Is that enough of a definition or do you need me to pull out the dictionary?

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Question: If it is unwanted but after constant pestering or pressure you finally give in and consent to the encounter, is it rape? I would say no, because you did not have to consent but I have seen others make the argument that it was still rape.

I was once repeatedly whistled at by a guy and it was super creepy. I can't imagine being a woman and having that be your life.

I'm not sure how to answer. The only thing I can think of is when I was 16 working at my first job at a veterinary clinic one the receptionists used to slap me on the butt all the time (maybe once a day). She was in her 30s. The reason I am not sure how to answer is that I liked it. She was hot. Also, I know if I had asked her to stop she would have stopped. And she was a co-worker, not my boss. But it was the work place and I was a minor.

Also, one day I worked up the nerve to return the butt slap.

Skeptic Bob said:

I'm not sure how to answer. The only thing I can think of is when I was 16 working at my first job at a veterinary clinic one the receptionists used to slap me on the butt all the time (maybe once a day). She was in her 30s. The reason I am not sure how to answer is that I liked it. She was hot. Also, I know if I had asked her to stop she would have stopped. And she was a co-worker, not my boss. But it was the work place and I was a minor.

Also, one day I worked up the nerve to return the butt slap.

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I dunno. That's a difficult one. :lol:

pillars said:

Just curious how widespread this problem is and how many people are affected by it. This poll is anonymous and you can select as many options as apply.

I became curious because of the #metoo hashtag on facebook and twitter, and realizing how many of my friends had been subjected to unwanted sexual attention.

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I found the "#metoo" campaign to be a little odd, to be honest. Under this definition of "sexual assault", I have apparently been sexually assaulted probably a half dozen times --and I'm both a man and not terribly attractive (In high school, a few different women who liked me apparently liked to play grab ass). If you're an attractive woman, I imagine that number goes up. By a lot.

The part that I found weird is that:

A.) It's not a women's issue, it's just much more likely to happen to women. It seemed bizarre to me to frame this as an exclusively gender issue, but it's true that (neglecting prison sexual assault and rape), women are far more frequently harassed and assaulted.

B.) Although it raises awareness of the issue (which is the good part of the campaign), I'm far more skeptical about the claim that this campaign is going to help fix sexual harassment and assault. The people who sexually harass and assault others are unlikely to take serious heed of this campaign, and possibly are unlikely to even find the stories disturbing. Most of these people have probably internalized sexual harassment or assault (e.g. groping) as "normal." Because in a lot of communities, it's common --it's wrong, but that's never stopped something from being common.


So I think it's good to talk about these things, but I'm still not really sure that there is any coherent strategy to combat these issues. Perhaps openly discussing it will help change it though; on this front, only time will tell.

bearpoker said:

I actually have been groped like that. It was on a sidewalk in the daytime. No alcohol involved as far as I know. I don't know how common a thing it is.

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Good golly! Some folks are quite bold! It's never happened to me -- but, I can still hope. Well, only if it's the opposite sex.