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Are you surprised the GOP never had a "replace"?

Are you surprised the GOP never had a "replace"?

  • Total voters
    40
Greenbeard said:
As we bask in the fading afterglow of yet another fun "repeal-and-replace" light show, I've noticed the continuation of a trend that seems to have started earlier this year. More of our friends on the right seem to be cynically grumbling "it was all for show, they've never really intended to repeal-and-replace Obamacare" or "don't blame Trump, he believed the GOP leadership about repeal-and-replace and they were lying!"

Many of us, of course, have been pointing out for years that the GOP (candidate Trump among them) never developed a viable replacement plan and thus could never pass one. But some of the reactions I'm seeing now feel like a bit of an about-face from the days when folks would absolutely insist the GOP had a solid replacement plan waiting on deck (maybe even lots of them!) and all they needed was unified control of government before they could deliver on the one promise that served as the unifying foundation of the contemporary Republican Party.

And yet here we are. So I'm genuinely curious how many folks are actually surprised by this turn of events.

Not to claim I'm any great prognosticator, but I'm going to end by quoting myself from just after the election last year:
Click to expand...

Those assholes had a bill they voted on it over 40 times. Those gutless wonders ******d out.
 
Parrish said:
Having 7 years to craft a bill and then come up with nothin'? Pitiful. They've taken a knee to their nuts.
Click to expand...
That's the thing - they CAN'T craft a bill.

The only acceptable bill that their voters will accept is one that improves the healthcare situation.
The only acceptable bill that their big donors will accept is one that reduces costs for those donors.

These two things are either completely opposed to each other, or...I dunno. Republicans intentionally created bills that would not be popular? Why the hell would they do that?
 
Mycroft said:
The GOP ran a very successful con job on their Party members and the country for 7 years...and they were all set to keep the con going...but...a guy named Trump came along and screwed things up.

But they haven't given up. They are STILL trying to con people...hence these attempts to "do something" that just, somehow, keep failing. (due to one GOP or another).

Now me...I fell for their con. For 7 years. But when I saw how they opposed the guy running for President who said he would sign a repeal as soon as they give it to him...I wised up. They can't con me again.
Click to expand...

If you're relying on Trump, you may want to reevaluate. On 6 different occasions, Trump has touted Single-Payer. As recent as 2016, he said:
"A friend of mine was in Scotland recently. He got very, very sick. They took him by ambulance and he was there for four days. He was really in trouble, and they released him and he said, ‘Where do I pay?’ And they said, ‘There’s no charge,’" Trump said. "Not only that, he said it was like great doctors, great care. I mean, we could have a great system in this country.”

I would love to see Trump embrace Single-Payer. But it's probably just more lies to capture the vote of Leftists.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...nge-payer-health-care/?utm_term=.758665498060
 
I could not vote in the poll as my position was not provided as a choice. The Republicans had multiple plans. The House passed one plan and forty-nine of 52 Republican Senators voted for a second plan.
 
Greenbeard said:
As we bask in the fading afterglow of yet another fun "repeal-and-replace" light show, I've noticed the continuation of a trend that seems to have started earlier this year. More of our friends on the right seem to be cynically grumbling "it was all for show, they've never really intended to repeal-and-replace Obamacare" or "don't blame Trump, he believed the GOP leadership about repeal-and-replace and they were lying!"

Many of us, of course, have been pointing out for years that the GOP (candidate Trump among them) never developed a viable replacement plan and thus could never pass one. But some of the reactions I'm seeing now feel like a bit of an about-face from the days when folks would absolutely insist the GOP had a solid replacement plan waiting on deck (maybe even lots of them!) and all they needed was unified control of government before they could deliver on the one promise that served as the unifying foundation of the contemporary Republican Party.

And yet here we are. So I'm genuinely curious how many folks are actually surprised by this turn of events.

Not to claim I'm any great prognosticator, but I'm going to end by quoting myself from just after the election last year:
Click to expand...

Congress has managed to under perform my expectations, which is a real feat. I have been wondering if this is part of the impeachment and still am but it is clear the the wheels have come completely off the Senate Bus. Historians should be telling us if the quality of the Senate has ever been worse....was it worse in the run-up to the civil war for instance? The answer is not clear, but it clearly sucks bad now.

As for not actually doing the work to come up with ideas on medical care all those years they were playing partisan games voting to repeal ObamaCare, no I am not surprised.
 
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Media_Truth said:
If you're relying on Trump, you may want to reevaluate. On 6 different occasions, Trump has touted Single-Payer. As recent as 2016, he said:
"A friend of mine was in Scotland recently. He got very, very sick. They took him by ambulance and he was there for four days. He was really in trouble, and they released him and he said, ‘Where do I pay?’ And they said, ‘There’s no charge,’" Trump said. "Not only that, he said it was like great doctors, great care. I mean, we could have a great system in this country.”

I would love to see Trump embrace Single-Payer. But it's probably just more lies to capture the vote of Leftists.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...nge-payer-health-care/?utm_term=.758665498060
Click to expand...

So...Trump says something and that justifies the GOP Congress lying to their voters? Is Trump responsible for their lies?
 
I think they clearly just wanted to repeal it and had no idea how to replace it--if they even wanted to. I mean their whole approach to healthcare is basically that if you are too stupid/poor to afford quality healthcare, then tough titty. They, like Trump, seem to almost be delighted by the problems with Obamacare and they want it to fail no matter how many people are hurt. Then they can go back to their fiction that "the market" will provide for us all. Though of course it won't.
 
The Mark said:
That's the thing - they CAN'T craft a bill.

The only acceptable bill that their voters will accept is one that improves the healthcare situation.
The only acceptable bill that their big donors will accept is one that reduces costs for those donors.

These two things are either completely opposed to each other, or...I dunno. Republicans intentionally created bills that would not be popular? Why the hell would they do that?
Click to expand...

It's really very simple.

The GOP Elites are beholden to their donors, so they are attempting to con their voters while they satisfy their donors.

That's why they intentionally created bills that would not be popular. That's why they have a ready excuse for their RINO's to vote no.

Why would they do that? Money.
 
Mycroft said:
So...Trump says something and that justifies the GOP Congress lying to their voters? Is Trump responsible for their lies?
Click to expand...

No it does not. And both parties in Congress have made it clear that they will distance themselves from the Trump lies.
 
Mycroft said:
It's really very simple.

The GOP Elites are beholden to their donors, so they are attempting to con their voters while they satisfy their donors.

That's why they intentionally created bills that would not be popular. That's why they have a ready excuse for their RINO's to vote no.

Why would they do that? Money.
Click to expand...

A point you can be sure Trump will bring up at impeachment.

It should be barrels of fun.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
A point you can be sure Trump will bring up at impeachment.

It should be barrels of fun.
Click to expand...

lobbying-1-research.jpg
 
Greenbeard said:
As we bask in the fading afterglow of yet another fun "repeal-and-replace" light show, I've noticed the continuation of a trend that seems to have started earlier this year. More of our friends on the right seem to be cynically grumbling "it was all for show, they've never really intended to repeal-and-replace Obamacare" or "don't blame Trump, he believed the GOP leadership about repeal-and-replace and they were lying!"

Many of us, of course, have been pointing out for years that the GOP (candidate Trump among them) never developed a viable replacement plan and thus could never pass one. But some of the reactions I'm seeing now feel like a bit of an about-face from the days when folks would absolutely insist the GOP had a solid replacement plan waiting on deck (maybe even lots of them!) and all they needed was unified control of government before they could deliver on the one promise that served as the unifying foundation of the contemporary Republican Party.

And yet here we are. So I'm genuinely curious how many folks are actually surprised by this turn of events.

Not to claim I'm any great prognosticator, but I'm going to end by quoting myself from just after the election last year:
Click to expand...

If anything it that many of the republicans who were campaigning on repealing Obama-care were lying about repealing Obama-care. Because the RINOs IE fake republicans support tax payer funded healthcare,they want to basically rename Obama-care or go to single payer or something similar so they can lie to their constituents and say they repealed Obama-care. The real republicans on the other hand just want a repeal and that's it.They actually meant it when they said they oppose Obama-care and socialized medicine. If the RINOs smart then they would do a straight repeal with the real republicans in the form of a expiration date. Then the RINOs can work with the democrats on a replacement that takes effect after Obama care expires. This allows both the RINOs and real republicans to say they repealed Obama-care and give the fake republicans the re-named Obama-care or even single payer health care that they want.


I knew that they were not going to repeal Obama-care.
https://www.debatepolitics.com/poll...ity-they-repeal-obama-health-care-reform.html
 
I'm disappointed they didn't even try, but no, not surprised because, as far as I'm concerned, there isn't a workable plan to do what the left wants to do and be fiscally responsible doing it. It cannot be done.
 
jamesrage said:
If anything it that many of the republicans who were campaigning on repealing Obama-care were lying about repealing Obama-care. Because the RINOs IE fake republicans support tax payer funded healthcare,they want to basically rename Obama-care or go to single payer or something similar so they can lie to their constituents and say they repealed Obama-care. The real republicans on the other hand just want a repeal and that's it.They actually meant it when they said they oppose Obama-care and socialized medicine. If the RINOs smart then they would do a straight repeal with the real republicans in the form of a expiration date. Then the RINOs can work with the democrats on a replacement that takes effect after Obama care expires. This allows both the RINOs and real republicans to say they repealed Obama-care and give the fake republicans the re-named Obama-care or even single payer health care that they want.


I knew that they were not going to repeal Obama-care.
https://www.debatepolitics.com/poll...ity-they-repeal-obama-health-care-reform.html
Click to expand...

Of course not, the GOP has turned into yet another party of "gimme free stuff" just like the Democrats. It's a lot easier to just buy votes than actually sticking to your principles and earning them. We do not have a conservative party in this country anymore, we just have two flavors of liberalism.
 
Mustachio said:
I know, you're going to have to eat out one less time a year now. That basically ruins your life.
Click to expand...

That's one big expensive meal he's going to miss!
 
Greenbeard said:
As we bask in the fading afterglow of yet another fun "repeal-and-replace" light show, I've noticed the continuation of a trend that seems to have started earlier this year. More of our friends on the right seem to be cynically grumbling "it was all for show, they've never really intended to repeal-and-replace Obamacare" or "don't blame Trump, he believed the GOP leadership about repeal-and-replace and they were lying!"

Many of us, of course, have been pointing out for years that the GOP (candidate Trump among them) never developed a viable replacement plan and thus could never pass one. But some of the reactions I'm seeing now feel like a bit of an about-face from the days when folks would absolutely insist the GOP had a solid replacement plan waiting on deck (maybe even lots of them!) and all they needed was unified control of government before they could deliver on the one promise that served as the unifying foundation of the contemporary Republican Party.

And yet here we are. So I'm genuinely curious how many folks are actually surprised by this turn of events.

Not to claim I'm any great prognosticator, but I'm going to end by quoting myself from just after the election last year:
Click to expand...

Cardinal said:
It's been over twenty years of them claiming to have a better idea while never actually presenting a plan of their own. So of course I'm not surprised. Nobody over 15 years old should be surprised.
Click to expand...

Lindsey Graham said:

Graham, though, said he was not alone in his lack of understanding of health care. "Nobody in our conference believes Obamacare works. It must be replaced. But until now we didn’t know how to do it," Graham told reporters in the Capitol on Tuesday.

A reporter pointed out that such ignorance at this late stage is itself hard to understand. "You’ve been working to overhaul this for seven years. Why is this so hard?" she asked.

"Well, I’ve been doing it for about a month. I thought everybody else knew what the hell they were talking about, but apparently not," Graham clarified, adding he had assumed "these really smart people will figure it out."
Click to expand...

https://theintercept.com/2017/09/27...macare-repeal-i-had-no-idea-what-i-was-doing/

I think the rhetoric took on a life of its own, and it's crowded out any room they have to go that is politically realizable.

It sounds like Lindsey Graham is finally catching on to this, but his claim that "until now" they didn't know how suggests that they now know, a claim that isn't supported by their present failure.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Once the federal government gives itself a power and uses that power as a vehicle to give "free" money to the states it is likely that congress critters will increase its funding, very unlikely that they will cut its funding and nearly impossible that they will ever eliminate it. Once 16 "red" states took the expanded Medicaid bribe then any replace idea basically had to keep that pork intact and the debate then centered around how to move the PPACA subsidies around to make it look like the states, rather than the federal government, were more in charge.

To pretend to cut the costs of PPACA in the republicant replacement plans they adopted the idea of "ten year plans" with any significant federal funding cuts pushed out as far as possible (after their next re-election?) pretending some other future congress will be the bad guys but more likely letting them evolve (flip-flop) gradually into accepting the reality of committing political suicide by yanking an established entitlement program away from millions of folks.
Click to expand...

It's not "free" money, it's funded with income and payroll taxes.

9eb019d123301870dc6803f1b783070a.gif


Payroll taxes are regressive federal taxes on income.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
There simply is no small government way to run a big government income redistribution program.
Click to expand...

If you presume a goal of small government, it is no surprise that the result will be an undersupported society. This is why all the small governments throughout the world are not good places to live and work.
 
The GOP lied. Trump isn't innocent either. He would have signed anything the GOP shat on his desk. He deceived as well...

“We will immediately repeal and replace ObamaCare - and nobody can do that like me. We will save dollars and have much better healthcare!”

“I’m not going to cut Social Security like every other Republican and I’m not going to cut Medicare or Medicaid.”

“Everybody’s going to be taken care of much better than they’re taken care of now.”

“​I am going to take care of everybody. I don't care if it costs me votes or not. ​The government's gonna pay for it.”

“There was a philosophy in some circles that if you can't pay for it, you don't get it. That's not going to happen with us.”

“Despite what you hear in the press, health care is coming along great. We are talking to many groups and it will end in a beautiful picture!”

“Remove barriers to entry into free markets for drug providers that offer safe, reliable and cheaper products.”

“Will have much lower premiums & deductibles while at the same time taking care of pre-existing conditions!”

“Our healthcare plan will lower premiums and deductibles — and be great healthcare!”

But Trump is keeping some promises...

Trump Ramps Up Obamacare Sabotage With Huge Cuts To Enrollment Programs

Trump cuts to Obamacare outreach to hit red states most

Trump's strangulation of Obamacare

Obamacare rates soar as White House refuses to make long term commitment to subsidies

Trump is the healthcare arsonist who keeps pouring kerosene on the ACA program and then says; “See, I told you it was a fire hazard.”
 
Am I surprised that there is not a "replace"?

Of course not, for years its been obvious how stupid repeal and replace is for many simple reasons. First people can bash the ACA all they want (and in places it certainly deserves it!) but the vast majority of republicans agreed with 75% of it. So why on gods green earth would they "scrap" it. Next now that its in place without something VERY solid to go in its place and to INSTANTLY take place your screw 10s of thousands of americans who now have coverage.

Health care was indeed broken and needed fixed. ACA was not a complete fix but it did make some stuff better so now we simply have to improve on it and fix were its broken or make the move to single payer it really doesn't work any other way unless people dont care about screwing 10s of thousands of Americans and wanna go back to the already proven broken old system. And on top of that, the reality is whatever they come up with is gonna be similar in many ways. Also find it funny that so many people give the insurance companies etc free passes.
 
Greenbeard said:
As we bask in the fading afterglow of yet another fun "repeal-and-replace" light show, I've noticed the continuation of a trend that seems to have started earlier this year. More of our friends on the right seem to be cynically grumbling "it was all for show, they've never really intended to repeal-and-replace Obamacare" or "don't blame Trump, he believed the GOP leadership about repeal-and-replace and they were lying!"

Many of us, of course, have been pointing out for years that the GOP (candidate Trump among them) never developed a viable replacement plan and thus could never pass one. But some of the reactions I'm seeing now feel like a bit of an about-face from the days when folks would absolutely insist the GOP had a solid replacement plan waiting on deck (maybe even lots of them!) and all they needed was unified control of government before they could deliver on the one promise that served as the unifying foundation of the contemporary Republican Party.

And yet here we are. So I'm genuinely curious how many folks are actually surprised by this turn of events.

Not to claim I'm any great prognosticator, but I'm going to end by quoting myself from just after the election last year:
Click to expand...

The biggest irony is how Republicans cried about Obama abusing veto power when they put ****ty bill after ****ty bill in front of him. When push came to shove, they couldn't even get a bill in front of Trump. What a bunch of assholes.
 
Absentglare said:
It's not "free" money, it's funded with income and payroll taxes.

9eb019d123301870dc6803f1b783070a.gif


Payroll taxes are regressive federal taxes on income.
Click to expand...

It is funded with federal money and many states get more of that back than is taken from within their borders thus to them it is indeed "free" money. Even to states that pay more than they get back it is still deemed best to get as much back as possible.
 
jamesrage said:
If anything it that many of the republicans who were campaigning on repealing Obama-care were lying about repealing Obama-care. Because the RINOs IE fake republicans support tax payer funded healthcare,they want to basically rename Obama-care or go to single payer or something similar so they can lie to their constituents and say they repealed Obama-care. The real republicans on the other hand just want a repeal and that's it.They actually meant it when they said they oppose Obama-care and socialized medicine. If the RINOs smart then they would do a straight repeal with the real republicans in the form of a expiration date. Then the RINOs can work with the democrats on a replacement that takes effect after Obama care expires. This allows both the RINOs and real republicans to say they repealed Obama-care and give the fake republicans the re-named Obama-care or even single payer health care that they want.


I knew that they were not going to repeal Obama-care.
https://www.debatepolitics.com/poll...ity-they-repeal-obama-health-care-reform.html
Click to expand...

That's just a no true scotsman fallacy that struggling (and failing) to deflect from the fact that pulling away consumer protections but not big business protections exacerbates the existing imbalance that already harms millions of Americans.

It's a complete failure of an argument.
 
Absentglare said:
If you presume a goal of small government, it is no surprise that the result will be an undersupported society. This is why all the small governments throughout the world are not good places to live and work.
Click to expand...

Then again some places with big governments (e.g. Greece and Puerto Rico) are not such great places to live and work.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
It is funded with federal money and many states get more of that back than is taken from within their borders thus to them it is indeed "free" money. Even to states that pay more than they get back it is still deemed best to get as much back as possible.
Click to expand...

A lot does come from general federal revenue:

2710af49ef9db1633622a23cd3d0507b.png


But that general federal revenue still ultimately comes from income taxes; personal, payroll, and corporate. So we still end up paying, in terms of lower take-home or whatever.

Bottom line is that it's not free. We still pay for it, we're just pooling our money together to make sure Americans with fewer resources (like those who are not being protected by the group benefit of a massive, wealthy, benevolent employer) aren't having their needs excessively exploited for profit. I don't see the relevance of distinguishing "distribution" of income from "redistribution" of income.
 
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