Is there social and racial injustice in the US today?

fredmertzz said:

My stance: It does exist. https://www.dosomething.org/us/facts/11-facts-about-racial-discrimination

In NYC: 80% of traffic stops are black/latino. 85% of those stops result in a frisk. Vs. 8% of white stops are frisked.

As of 2010, blacks get 10% more sentence through the federal court system than whites for the same crimes. They are 20% more likely to be sentenced to prison, and 21% more likely to have a mandatory minimum sentence.

What to do about it: Start prosecuting departments, levy fines against them, for blatant racial profiling. Start putting people in jail through a state court so that the president cannot pardon them. Our nation's leaders need to encourage the population to stand against racism.

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Good information! Sure flies in the face of all the cons on this board who claims it's all in our heads.

Dirt Sands said:

So much idoelogy. So lame. So irrelevant. So many right wingers trying to create an ideological Utopia. It's not the Dems doing it, it's the Republicans. I guess you just have to throw everybody who disagrees with you over the wall. It must be that intolerance is a virtue.

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What an odd comment. It is the left that is swarming with ideologues. Conservatives are not very fond of theory: Pragmatism - what works works and we'll only change in when it stops doing so. Just look at the universities, infested by wannabe Marxes, Engels and Lenins, churning out ever more batty 'theories'.

fredmertzz said:

The country is divided regarding the means of protest that the NFL Players are using to bring attention to social and racial injustice.

But we aren’t debating whether there is social and racial injustice.

If it exists, what do we do about it?
If it doesn’t exist, why is it perceived to exist? And what do we do about it?

**Please, don’t let this particular debate fall into an argument over whether or not kneeling was appropriate. There were other threads about this.

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Is there social and racial injustice in the US today? Of course there is only a dummy would deny it. As for what to do about it that's more tricky. For the most part only time and education will fix it. People recognize the fact it exists then we help those few that don't and if they deny it we certainly don't let their ignorance influences us. Education and time, lots of time. Things are getting better.

graeme104 said:

It definitely exists, but I think some people definitely over blow it. To help remove racial and social injustice I would promote repealing Affirmative Action and trying to remove racial prejudice from the courtroom, police body cameras, etc.

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AA is one of the things that stops racial social injust so that's a horrible idea.

cabse5 said:

I voted other. In the case of African-American culture (social), this injustice occurs because African-American culture is anti-police, anti-education, anti-family and pro-drugs. If African-American culture would reverse even two of these 'hillbilly' traits, their harassment would go down. I guess, though, everyone has the right to be stupid.

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None of that is "african american" culture good grief your bigotry is showing very badly. My favorite line is the last one since its laced with such sweet irony. Your comments prove it so true

RetiredUSN said:

White Liberals don't see it that way.

They are either too ****ing naive, or too pompous and arrogant to understand that the average black person doesn't give a **** what they think to begin with.

Blacks know that liberals move out when they move in. Blacks are also very aware that the democrat circus tents disappear the day after the election is over.

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That's because white liberals think they're better than blacks anyhow, so they get to decide what ought to offend blacks, even if it doesn't. And when blacks complain that whites are claiming they ought to be offended and are not, white liberals pretend that blacks have internalized racial problems and therefore aren't bright enough to know what's best for them.

Like I said, liberals are racist.

LaylaWindu said:

AA is one of the things that stops racial social injust so that's a horrible idea.

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AA causes companies to hire minorities just for the sake of it instead of hiring based on merit.

graeme104 said:

AA causes companies to hire minorities just for the sake of it instead of hiring based on merit.

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No that's not what AA does. I help with hiring for my department and AA and equal employment acts, laws and rule do the exact opposite of that.

Protesting the flag is a piss poor choice of protest. Disrespecting the flag that thousands of Union soldiers died under to free the slaves. Talk about ingratitude.

Social and racial injustice exists because we are humans and don't yet live in a utopia. But to put it in perspective, there is a lot less of it now in this country than ever before, and a lot less than still exists in most of the world. And while there is still work to do, it makes no sense to tear the society apart because it isn't to the point you'd like it to be at yet. Burning it all down will not make it better. That path leads to a new Dark Ages.

Think about it; where's the one place I can go, besides church, where I can sit with people of all races, where we cheer players from all races, who have their jobs based on merit, not privilege, and where we can all put our differences aside for a couple of hours and just enjoy that experience. Why would anyone want to ruin that?

fredmertzz said:

The country is divided regarding the means of protest that the NFL Players are using to bring attention to social and racial injustice.

But we aren’t debating whether there is social and racial injustice.

If it exists, what do we do about it?
If it doesn’t exist, why is it perceived to exist? And what do we do about it?

**Please, don’t let this particular debate fall into an argument over whether or not kneeling was appropriate. There were other threads about this.

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What the ****?

Your poll asks :

"Is there social and racial injustice?"

Then you say :

"But we aren’t debating whether there is social and racial injustice" ???

Then in your second post you argue that there is :

"My stance: It does exist. "

Seriously?

fredmertzz said:

My stance: It does exist. https://www.dosomething.org/us/facts/11-facts-about-racial-discrimination

In NYC: 80% of traffic stops are black/latino. 85% of those stops result in a frisk. Vs. 8% of white stops are frisked.

As of 2010, blacks get 10% more sentence through the federal court system than whites for the same crimes. They are 20% more likely to be sentenced to prison, and 21% more likely to have a mandatory minimum sentence.

What to do about it: Start prosecuting departments, levy fines against them, for blatant racial profiling. Start putting people in jail through a state court so that the president cannot pardon them. Our nation's leaders need to encourage the population to stand against racism.

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Maybe black people are committing the majority of
crime despite being only 13% of the population?

graeme104 said:

It definitely exists, but I think some people definitely over blow it. To help remove racial and social injustice I would promote repealing Affirmative Action and trying to remove racial prejudice from the courtroom, police body cameras, etc.

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Considering studies show that body cams reduce bad encounters your idea is really bad...

Bodhisattva said:

Maybe black people are committing the majority of
crime despite being only 13% of the population?

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Even if that is true, it doesn't explain why they are more likely to be given a prison sentence for the same crime or more likely to be frisked at a traffic stop than a white person stopped at a traffic stop.

Poverty is the biggest cause of crime by a huge margin, and large wealth disparities are bad news for social cohesion. Redistibution of wealth would make America a better and happier place to live.

Aristaeus said:

Even if that is true, it doesn't explain why they are more likely to be given a prison sentence for the same crime or more likely to be frisked at a traffic stop than a white person stopped at a traffic stop.

Poverty is the biggest cause of crime by a huge margin, and large wealth disparities are bad news for social cohesion. Redistibution of wealth would make America a better and happier place to live.

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Just giving people money is a bad idea. You are discounting culture. Work in an inner city ghetto... it will open your eyes.

Aristaeus said:

Even if that is true, it doesn't explain why they are more likely to be given a prison sentence for the same crime or more likely to be frisked at a traffic stop than a white person stopped at a traffic stop.

Poverty is the biggest cause of crime by a huge margin, and large wealth disparities are bad news for social cohesion. Redistibution of wealth would make America a better and happier place to live.

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Police forces do not have infinite resources. If you have limited resources and limited manpower, you will need use those resources in ways that give the city the most bang for the buck. This will not be perfect, but will serve and protect the most based on these limited resources. The police look at crime statistics and will tend to focus these limited resources on the demographics which show the highest crime rates. This is how science works with limited resources. One needs to narrow and specialize the investigation.

If you were the dog catcher in a city that had a lot of stray dogs, and your job was to protect the domesticated dogs and their owners from street dog violence by the stray dogs, you will not waste time and resources chasing after toy poodles. That would make you a moron. The smart dog catcher will look at dog bite statistics and focus his limited time and resources looking for pitfalls, huskies and German Shepherds, etc.. If he has the resources to catch one dog a day, catching a toy poodle each day, will not change the bite risk to the public.

This entire debate takes the eye off the ball; scam. The left seems to work under the assumption of infinite resources. If this was true you would create busy work to fill in time and justify the resources, This could be done by shaking down everyone equally, even if there is no crime correlation, all so it looks less racist. The truth is there is limited resources and lots of crime. They will go after the dogs that bite the most and cause the most threat to society. They don not have enough dog catchers. The police shake down black women way out of proportion to black men. This is not sexist, but is in correlation to the crime statistics.

Another thing that is not mentioned is 16 out of the top 20 worse crime cities in America are run by Democrats. The Democrats start the chant that blames the police, even though a Democratic mayor controls the police department in 16 of 20 top crime cities. The Mayor can fire the police chief, who can fire all the people under him. Yet the Democrats blame everyone else. They are setting uno another distraction to take your eye off the ball.

The biggest mistake the blacks made was hitching their wagon to the Democratic party. Martin Luther King was a Republican; party of Lincoln, and was at the peak of black evolution in America. He helped changed the world, peacefully. After his death, the blacks were lured toward the Democratic party, by the far left; love generation who promoted equality.

The problem was this love generation far left was not the power wing of the Democratic party. The power wing was still the old boys swamp, which was still connected to the old traditions of the South. Once the blacks entered the door, they became enslaved all over again. The Democrats will blame everyone else, while giving the black just enough to exist, but not enough to escape. The blacks don't appear to want to escape but prefer a more comfortable enslavement.

Bodhisattva said:

What the ****?

Your poll asks :

"Is there social and racial injustice?"

Then you say :

"But we aren’t debating whether there is social and racial injustice" ???

Then in your second post you argue that there is :

"My stance: It does exist. "

Seriously?

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Amazing what happens when you take statements out of context with a partial quote... they just won't make any sense at all, will they?

Bodhisattva said:

Maybe black people are committing the majority of
crime despite being only 13% of the population?

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Do you suggest that 85% of black/latinos are criminals?

I'm not suggesting that blacks don't have a higher crime rate. The statistics show us that they do. But they're ALL being treated like criminals for the actions of a subset. The frisk ratio is disproportionate.

Is there social or racial Injustice in America? There is and there always has been. We just now have cameras to prove it. This is not a black-and-white issue. It is an American issue. There will be people that actually defend that there isn't. Police brutality is a crime. It is not a theory or a philosophy. It is real. That's why I started police brutality as a threat. And so many people defended the corrupt and illegal actions of the police. There must be a law to prevent this. Current laws do nothing to stop it. Whether the problem is with the grand jury system, or with the inside police investigations of the actions of the police. Human dignity demands that something must be done. This is not a liberal or conservative issue. It is an American issue. Please stop the violence.






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Bodhisattva said:

Considering studies show that body cams reduce bad encounters your idea is really bad...

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I never claimed to oppose body cameras...

fredmertzz said:

Do you suggest that 85% of black/latinos are criminals?

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you said something about taking comments out of context?

I'm not suggesting that blacks don't have a higher crime rate. The statistics show us that they do. But they're ALL being treated like criminals for the actions of a subset. The frisk ratio is disproportionate.

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There are obviousle some... few... bad cops but if you have not been around the inner city gang areas you don't really have a proper understanding.

graeme104 said:

I never claimed to oppose body cameras...

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What does this mean:

to remove racial prejudice from the courtroom, police body cameras, etc.

How do remove the prejudice ??

Bodhisattva said:

What does this mean:

to remove racial prejudice from the courtroom, police body cameras, etc.

How do remove the prejudice ??

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Oops, I a word. I'll have to edit my original comment, as what I intended to write was:

to remove racial prejudice from the courtroom, enforce police body cameras, etc.

graeme104 said:

Oops, I a word. I'll have to edit my original comment, as what I intended to write was:

to remove racial prejudice from the courtroom, enforce police body cameras, etc.

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:lol: a pretty important word!!

All good. I agree. Body cameras are a good thing. Filming cops is also a good thing.

Bodhisattva said:

you said something about taking comments out of context?



There are obviousle some... few... bad cops but if you have not been around the inner city gang areas you don't really have a proper understanding.

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regarding your first point: I was asking you a question to clarify your context. You were trying to imply something but clearly didn't want to say it. Despite the logical inference, I didn't take a potential misunderstanding for granted and simply asked before accusing you. Re-reading my statement, it could be read with an accusatory tone, but the intent was quite the opposite.

Regarding the locality of the statistic; That's a solid point I hadn't considered. National vs local statistics can and will vary quite a bit.

I could only imagine that the disproportionate numbers exist in municipalities nationwide, but without any statistics at hand, I'll concede the point to you.

fredmertzz said:

regarding your first point: I was asking you a question to clarify your context. You were trying to imply something but clearly didn't want to say it. Despite the logical inference, I didn't take a potential misunderstanding for granted and simply asked before accusing you. Re-reading my statement, it could be read with an accusatory tone, but the intent was quite the opposite.

Regarding the locality of the statistic; That's a solid point I hadn't considered. National vs local statistics can and will vary quite a bit.

I could only imagine that the disproportionate numbers exist in municipalities nationwide, but without any statistics at hand, I'll concede the point to you.

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There are so many factors that are a part of this issue. End stats are already muddled and often misleading (on most major issues... not just this one) enough. Trying to take an end stat and say , " the stat is this so the reason must be that" is a trap too many fall into. I appreciate your discussion.