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Gender pay gap

Do women make less than men for the same exact job

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Bodi

Bodi

Just waiting for my set...
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Do women actually make less than men for the same job?

I say no. Why? Because they don't. Why do I say that? Because it is illegal...

My reasoning has more to it than that but that is a good enough start for now.
 
There can specific cases but 99.9% when all variables are equal with the exception of gender they are paid the same.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Do women actually make less than men for the same job?

I say no. Why? Because they don't. Why do I say that? Because it is illegal...

My reasoning has more to it than that but that is a good enough start for now.
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Has anyone claimed women make less than men for the same job? Your thread is a strawman. The gender pay gap is the average difference in earnings for men and women over their working lives.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Do women actually make less than men for the same job?

I say no. Why? Because they don't. Why do I say that? Because it is illegal...

My reasoning has more to it than that but that is a good enough start for now.
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It completely depends upon level of experience and seniority in many cases. It depends upon whether or not women are as good negotiators when hired. If men are better negotiators, then, all other things being equal, men will continue to earn more than their female counterparts all the way down the line. If there are unions involved, they will be paid the same for the same job designation and seniority level. In jobs depending on commission, they have the same opportunity. Whether they earn the same or not depends on them. They could just as easily earn more.

Many jobs can't be easily quantified because they're too often not the same within a company. Responsibilities may vary from position to position. A man might be a supervisor/manager of fifty people. A woman might be a supervisor/manager over twenty. Same title. Different responsibilities.

I often wonder how statistics are developed. If you gather stats based on full-time workers in total, I'm pretty sure women would, in the aggregate, make less if only because women often choose to put their children ahead of their careers and thus accept jobs that, for instance, are closer to home, offer flexible hours, more personal days, or less responsibility among other things.

My instincts tell me that stats would be difficult to obtain and thus can't be depended upon for accuracy.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Do women actually make less than men for the same job?

I say no. Why? Because they don't. Why do I say that? Because it is illegal...

My reasoning has more to it than that but that is a good enough start for now.
Click to expand...

The job might be the same, but the risk profile of employing a man and woman are different and require a cost adjustment.
 
joG said:
The job might be the same, but the risk profile of employing a man and woman are different and require a cost adjustment.
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And I actually think that's fair.
 
Women do tend to get paid less, but that’s because they work less. It is definitely not some kind of discrimination inherent to the employment process. I mean it’s not like the employer is saying my male employees get paid $15/hr and my female employees will be paid $12/hr. It simply doesn’t work like that and as someone pointed out that is illegal if anyone is doing that. The fact of the matter is that women work far less and are way more inefficient than men, hence they get paid less. Personally I think women shouldn’t strive to be part of the workforce. I believe in traditional gender roles and even most women would agree they would be much happier as house wives rearing children than working all day and coming home in the evening exhausted. It’s part of male chivalry to insist your wife shouldn’t work outside the home and take care of the financial needs of the family yourself.
 
Cherub786 said:
Women do tend to get paid less, but that’s because they work less. It is definitely not some kind of discrimination inherent to the employment process. I mean it’s not like the employer is saying my male employees get paid $15/hr and my female employees will be paid $12/hr. It simply doesn’t work like that and as someone pointed out that is illegal if anyone is doing that. The fact of the matter is that women work far less and are way more inefficient than men, hence they get paid less. Personally I think women shouldn’t strive to be part of the workforce. I believe in traditional gender roles and even most women would agree they would be much happier as house wives rearing children than working all day and coming home in the evening exhausted. It’s part of male chivalry to insist your wife shouldn’t work outside the home and take care of the financial needs of the family yourself.
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That's pretty damned sexist imo. I was largely in agreement with you until you got to the "women are inefficient" and women shouldn't be in the work force.

It is a fact that women on average work less hours than men, so I agree with that point. However, while there are situations that women would be less efficient (some cases involving physical labor) as a general rule especially in today's modern working environment that is absurd to say.
 
Nap said:
That's pretty damned sexist imo. I was largely in agreement with you until you got to the "women are inefficient" and women shouldn't be in the work force.

It is a fact that women on average work less hours than men, so I agree with that point. However, while there are situations that women would be less efficient (some cases involving physical labor) as a general rule especially in today's modern working environment that is absurd to say.
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Physical labor, mental alertness, coming to work everyday and not always calling in sick…all of this is related to work efficiency. In general women score way lower than men in this regard. It’s not say that women are incompetent, there could be genuine factors that are biological, mental and the fact that women can’t handle stress as well as men, nor do they have that same drive and ambition that we do. And women that have small kids while at the same time working, especially single mothers are under extreme amount of stress that it’s quite unhealthy. Women weren’t meant for the workforce, they were meant for the apron.
 
Cherub786 said:
Physical labor, mental alertness, coming to work everyday and not always calling in sick…all of this is related to work efficiency. In general women score way lower than men in this regard. It’s not say that women are incompetent, there could be genuine factors that are biological, mental and the fact that women can’t handle stress as well as men, nor do they have that same drive and ambition that we do. And women that have small kids while at the same time working, especially single mothers are under extreme amount of stress that it’s quite unhealthy. Women weren’t meant for the workforce, they were meant for the apron.
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Lol, I can see this thread is going to be pretty entertaining.
 
I get the paid the same as my male work colleagues who have the same level of experience/qualifications that I do. Nothing more, nothing less, just as it should be.
 
It's not really illegal to pay women less than men for the same job. It's illegal if the reason you're doing so is because you're discriminating against women, but outside of catching an email trail or getting a company officer on tape saying it's policy to pay women less, it's very difficult to prove. If I hire two candidates for the same position, one man and one woman, both of whom are equally qualified, it's not illegal for me to offer them whatever I want to offer, and if I can get one for half as much as the other, it's legal for me to do so.

Companies whose policy it is to offer women less won't ever be caught actually saying that's what they're doing. And given the amount of power employers have in this country, it's practically impossible to bring a successful suit, let alone criminal prosecution, for discrimination. If an employer claims that he judged the worth of a female candidate to be lower than that of a male candidate, provided that judgment had nothing to do with the sex of the candidates as such, a huge amount of evidence has to be produced to prevail against that employer--and that's the case even when other reasonable people might see no difference in the qualifications between the male and female candidates. Employers get to count intangibles such as "attitude," "aggressiveness," "professional tenor," and so on as qualifications, and can claim to have based any difference in pay on the employer's comparative perception of those qualities.

I know all this, because I've worked for companies that had unwritten rules about who got raises and who didn't...only in both cases, it was women being paid more than men. Nevertheless, given the statistics, I think we can guess that more companies discriminate against women than against men.
 
ashurbanipal said:
It's not really illegal to pay women less than men for the same job. It's illegal if the reason you're doing so is because you're discriminating against women, but outside of catching an email trail or getting a company officer on tape saying it's policy to pay women less, it's very difficult to prove. If I hire two candidates for the same position, one man and one woman, both of whom are equally qualified, it's not illegal for me to offer them whatever I want to offer, and if I can get one for half as much as the other, it's legal for me to do so.

Companies whose policy it is to offer women less won't ever be caught actually saying that's what they're doing. And given the amount of power employers have in this country, it's practically impossible to bring a successful suit, let alone criminal prosecution, for discrimination. If an employer claims that he judged the worth of a female candidate to be lower than that of a male candidate, provided that judgment had nothing to do with the sex of the candidates as such, a huge amount of evidence has to be produced to prevail against that employer--and that's the case even when other reasonable people might see no difference in the qualifications between the male and female candidates. Employers get to count intangibles such as "attitude," "aggressiveness," "professional tenor," and so on as qualifications, and can claim to have based any difference in pay on the employer's comparative perception of those qualities.

I know all this, because I've worked for companies that had unwritten rules about who got raises and who didn't...only in both cases, it was women being paid more than men. Nevertheless, given the statistics, I think we can guess that more companies discriminate against women than against men.
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I don't know if the statistics do back the case that more companies discriminate against women more often then men. I think given today's climate it is more likely men are more discriminated against due to companies fearing public backlash. I recently saw one statistic that women in their 20s on average make more than men.
 
Serenity said:
I get the paid the same as my male work colleagues who have the same level of experience/qualifications that I do. Nothing more, nothing less, just as it should be.
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Well said...
 
Serenity said:
I get the paid the same as my male work colleagues who have the same level of experience/qualifications that I do. Nothing more, nothing less, just as it should be.
Click to expand...

That's as it should be. Thankfully for you, you are not in the USA, where females are routinely paid less than males with the same level of experience/qualifications. We're just women, after all. No penis, less worth, less pay.

You're ahead of us now. I hope that is temporary, but I fear it is not.
 
Cherub786 said:
Physical labor, mental alertness, coming to work everyday and not always calling in sick…all of this is related to work efficiency. In general women score way lower than men in this regard. It’s not say that women are incompetent, there could be genuine factors that are biological, mental and the fact that women can’t handle stress as well as men, nor do they have that same drive and ambition that we do. And women that have small kids while at the same time working, especially single mothers are under extreme amount of stress that it’s quite unhealthy. Women weren’t meant for the workforce, they were meant for the apron.
Click to expand...

May I ask what your age is? Approximate?
 
Cherub786 said:
Physical labor, mental alertness, coming to work everyday and not always calling in sick…all of this is related to work efficiency. In general women score way lower than men in this regard. It’s not say that women are incompetent, there could be genuine factors that are biological, mental and the fact that women can’t handle stress as well as men, nor do they have that same drive and ambition that we do. And women that have small kids while at the same time working, especially single mothers are under extreme amount of stress that it’s quite unhealthy. Women weren’t meant for the workforce, they were meant for the apron.
Click to expand...

Cherub786 said:
Women do tend to get paid less, but that’s because they work less. It is definitely not some kind of discrimination inherent to the employment process. I mean it’s not like the employer is saying my male employees get paid $15/hr and my female employees will be paid $12/hr. It simply doesn’t work like that and as someone pointed out that is illegal if anyone is doing that. The fact of the matter is that women work far less and are way more inefficient than men, hence they get paid less. Personally I think women shouldn’t strive to be part of the workforce. I believe in traditional gender roles and even most women would agree they would be much happier as house wives rearing children than working all day and coming home in the evening exhausted. It’s part of male chivalry to insist your wife shouldn’t work outside the home and take care of the financial needs of the family yourself.
Click to expand...

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DiAnna said:
That's as it should be. Thankfully for you, you are not in the USA, where females are routinely paid less than males with the same level of experience/qualifications.
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Prove it... Evidence and.facts. Thank you.

We're just women, after all. No penis, less worth, less pay.
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I am sorry you feel so badly about women. I know many powerful and secure females. Two you insulted actually. My daughters.

ou're ahead of us now. I hope that is temporary, but I fear it is not.
Click to expand...

You fear American males are out to get women? Sounds lime a conspiracy... can you prove that?
 
I'm sure there are jobs that do pay women less than men for doing the same job with the same experience/seniority/education/etc. But those situations are the exception and not the rule.
 
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