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Is being born white a privilege? [W:357]

Is being born white a privilege?

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Re: Is being born white a privilege?

blueliner7 said:
That PDF is 31 pages. It would help if you pointed out the relevant section.
Click to expand...
An alternative explanation of the race difference in violent crime is the
spatial proximity of extremely disadvantaged tracts to one another. Given the
structure of racial residential segregation in U.S. cities, it is highly likely that
disadvantaged black neighborhoods are situated in close proximity to one
another forming a larger cluster of extreme disadvantage. By contrast, predominantly
white heavily disadvantaged communities may be more dispersed
throughout the city and hence be located amidst working and middle class
areas. The institutional benefits and resources of these socioeconomically more
advantaged communities might spillover to their less advantaged neighbors (e.g.,
Heitgerd & Bursik 1987). Indeed, this racially patterned geographic distribution
of extremely disadvantaged neighborhoods exists in Columbus (Figure 3).
Eighty-nine percent of the black tracts that are extremely disadvantaged on at
least one dimension form a continuous Black Belt similar to that described for
Chicago (Drake & Cayton 1945). White tracts with extreme concentrations of
disadvantage are more dispersed. There are several smaller clusters of such
white areas, but others are scattered across the city. In short, black and white
communities that are internally similar in their socioeconomic conditions are not
similarly situated within the urban environment.


In other words, the concentration of poverty is far greater for black communities, it extends beyond just income levels to the lack of supporting institutions (libraries, community centers, access to public transportation..etc).
 
Re: Is being born white a privilege?

Nilly said:
Privilege can manifest through both ethnic background and place of birth though.
Click to expand...

That's what you keep saying and it's up to you to prove it. Stating that America is better than Bangladesh therefore some Americans are more privileged than others due to skin color is a non-sequitur.
 
Re: Is being born white a privilege?

AlbqOwl said:
For sure. There is huge advantage in America in perpetuating racism, socially, economically, and politically. The Democrats, for instance, who depend heavily on the black vote, have every incentive to keep black people on their political reservation. And they do so by perpetuating a victim mentality and concepts such as 'white privilege' to keep them there. So the the question remains, to whose advantage is it to keep a belief that one is disadvantaged by the circumstances of their ancestry and also keep white privilege and sensitivity to it at the forefront of the national conversation? It is for damn sure that black people as a whole are not benefiting from that in any way.
Click to expand...

The victimhood nonsense goes beyond race and is more often now expressed as "income inequality" as if person A making 10X (or greater) more than person B means that person A is somehow taking opportunity for (access to?) X away from person B. The "cure", of course, is some "safety net" (income redistribution) scheme whereby person A is forced to share their "excess" income with multiple persons B so that they, through no productive effort at all, can have a more similar economic outcome to person A.

This reward for "victimhood" (personal social, educational and/or economic failure), of course, never makes person B able to earn more (without non-required additional personal effort) but does tend to get them to vote "correctly" for those proposing ever more "safety net" (income redistribution) schemes.
 
Re: Is being born white a privilege?

ttwtt78640 said:
Your urban area to urban area comparison link does not appear to include any trailer parks.
Click to expand...
You know as well as I do that "trailer parks" is a metaphor for concentrations of poverty.
 
Re: Is being born white a privilege?

Nilly said:
AlbqOwl's post #69 spells out a few of them pretty well. S+M also did in post #20.

If you just want to narrow things down specifically to white privilege, then we have to compare the white person in a trailer park to a black person of equal class etc. And the black person born just as poor as a white person in a trailer park probably has even worse access to schools than that white person.

To add to the reasons above, a white person is far better represented in govt than the comparably poor black person.

Did you read the page I posted to you about intersectionality? It talks about how our identity is derived from a number of things. Race, class, gender etc etc etc These things intersect to create unique circumstances for different individual. A white person in a trailer park may be 'less privileged' overall than a black person who is not. The recognition that white privilege exists doesn't preclude that.

Finally, as has been mentioned earlier, these are sociological phenomena that really emerge when you're talking about groups as a whole. One person, or family, or even trailer park is not indicative of country-wide phenomena. These things emerge as probabilities and likelihoods, rather than individual pieces of anecdotal information.
Click to expand...

But how did the situation become what it is? I suggest that everybody read McWhorter's essay linked in that post.

McWhorter isn't the only one. Such great economists/historians/thinkers as Walter Williams, Thomas Sowell, and others have observed the phenomenon and the cruelty of political exploitation of black people.

Mychal Massie, in 2011, wrote:

. . . but the system was cruelest to blacks who were stripped of dignity, not by evil white working people (regardless of social-economic strata), but by the federal government.

When Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act, 82 percent of blacks lived in married, two-parent households; 40 percent of blacks were small-business owners. In little more than three decades after said signing, blacks went from a legacy of Booker T. Washington and Dr. Martin Luther King, to Al Sharpton, Suge Knight, Jesse Jackson and Maxine Waters.

Blacks went from being proud of learning and prosperity to high school dropouts, broken homes, abortion, drugs, crime, violence and a degradation of aspiration. Blacks went from Duke Ellington and Motown to gangster rap and rap wars.

Black accountability went out the window. It was replaced with anger, hatred of whites and a refusal to embrace modernity. Then, the cruelest blow of all was, and is, the deliberate destabilization and erosion of everything blacks at one time embraced.

We didn’t need the Great Society to give America music, culture/art, Head Start, a Department of Housing and Urban Development, manpower, or child nutrition – but government needed those programs to enslave us to their system. . .​
How the Great Society harmed blacks

And now it is "sensitivity to white privilege" that is in vogue, clearly established to keep black people aware of how disadvantaged they are and how racism is keeping them down and therefore keeping them on the political reservation.

There is probably no more insidious or lasting cruelty imposed on a people than is mind control and manipulation imposed on them and calling it 'compassion and helping them' rather than what it actually is. It is actually carefully calculated to keep them blind to the truth for the benefit of the permanent political class who owns them.
 
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Re: Is being born white a privilege?

Gimmesometruth said:
An alternative explanation of the race difference in violent crime is the
spatial proximity of extremely disadvantaged tracts to one another. Given the
structure of racial residential segregation in U.S. cities, it is highly likely that
disadvantaged black neighborhoods are situated in close proximity to one
another forming a larger cluster of extreme disadvantage. By contrast, predominantly
white heavily disadvantaged communities may be more dispersed
throughout the city and hence be located amidst working and middle class
areas. The institutional benefits and resources of these socioeconomically more
advantaged communities might spillover to their less advantaged neighbors (e.g.,
Heitgerd & Bursik 1987). Indeed, this racially patterned geographic distribution
of extremely disadvantaged neighborhoods exists in Columbus (Figure 3).
Eighty-nine percent of the black tracts that are extremely disadvantaged on at
least one dimension form a continuous Black Belt similar to that described for
Chicago (Drake & Cayton 1945). White tracts with extreme concentrations of
disadvantage are more dispersed. There are several smaller clusters of such
white areas, but others are scattered across the city. In short, black and white
communities that are internally similar in their socioeconomic conditions are not
similarly situated within the urban environment.


In other words, the concentration of poverty is far greater for black communities, it extends beyond just income levels to the lack of supporting institutions (libraries, community centers, access to public transportation..etc).
Click to expand...

Is this talking about America as a whole or just one city? From reading your post it sounds like one city being discussed, I'm guessing Columbus?
 
Re: Is being born white a privilege?

Nilly said:
Yes being born white carries certain privileges.

So does being born straight, or being born without a disability, or even just being born American.

I mean, just as a westerner, how can you look at kids born in places like Haiti or Burkina Faso and not think you're privileged?
Click to expand...

Being born anything carries with it certain privileges and certain liabilities. What you make of the privileges and liabilities is what determines the outcome.
 
Re: Is being born white a privilege?

blueliner7 said:
That PDF is 31 pages. It would help if you pointed out the relevant section.
Click to expand...
Some more from their 1999 analysis:


A full 62% of all blacks in the United States live in highly
segregated metropolitan areas, with the separate black and white neighborhoods
in these areas providing distinct social environments. Indeed,
whites live almost exclusively in highly advantaged neighborhoods, while
blacks and Latinos reside in highly disadvantaged local communities. This
combination of segregation and ethnoracial differentials in social and
economic conditions provides the basic structural context within which
people of different races and ethnicities live and social problems play out.
To date, analysts have focused almost exclusively on the ways this racialized
social organization is detrimental for communities of color, particularly
African-American areas (Crane 1991; Massey and Denton 1993;
Peterson and Krivo 1993, 1999; Shihadeh and Flynn 1996; Cutler and
Glaeser 1997; Massey and Fischer 2000; Timberlake 2002; Charles 2003).
In this article, we argue that, although segregation clearly serves to
harm black communities, its role in producing social problems in neighborhoods
is broader and more complex than previously considered. Utilizing
the case of violent crime, we contend that the deleterious consequences
of segregation go beyond those felt within black and other
minority communities, creating conditions conducive to higher levels of
violence in local communities of all colors and compositions. Thus, blackwhite
inequality in community violence rates persists, but in more segregated
cities all neighborhoods suffer the downside of heightened violent
crime. From this point of view, in the quest to maintain urban areas with
little violence and few other social problems, the maintenance of blackwhite
residential segregation is everyone’s problem. Ultimately, our analyses
confirm this point but nonetheless demonstrate that segregation simultaneously
reproduces inequality in criminal violence. Notably, the
mechanisms that support segregation limit the potential of African-Americans
and other nonwhites to escape the most challenging environments
that increase violence while furthering the ability of whites, as a privileged
group, to locate in the most advantaged communities where violent crime
is far away and easily kept at bay. Recognizing these fundamental realities
of the interconnections of race, place, and inequality is required for understanding
race-ethnic differences in a host of arenas, including in levels
of criminal violence

http://myweb.fsu.edu/bstults/ccj5625/readings/krivo_peterson_kuhl-ajs-2009.pdf
 
Re: Is being born white a privilege?

Gimmesometruth said:
Some more from their 1999 analysis:


A full 62% of all blacks in the United States live in highly
segregated metropolitan areas, with the separate black and white neighborhoods
in these areas providing distinct social environments. Indeed,
whites live almost exclusively in highly advantaged neighborhoods, while
blacks and Latinos reside in highly disadvantaged local communities. This
combination of segregation and ethnoracial differentials in social and
economic conditions provides the basic structural context within which
people of different races and ethnicities live and social problems play out.
To date, analysts have focused almost exclusively on the ways this racialized
social organization is detrimental for communities of color, particularly
African-American areas (Crane 1991; Massey and Denton 1993;
Peterson and Krivo 1993, 1999; Shihadeh and Flynn 1996; Cutler and
Glaeser 1997; Massey and Fischer 2000; Timberlake 2002; Charles 2003).
In this article, we argue that, although segregation clearly serves to
harm black communities, its role in producing social problems in neighborhoods
is broader and more complex than previously considered. Utilizing
the case of violent crime, we contend that the deleterious consequences
of segregation go beyond those felt within black and other
minority communities, creating conditions conducive to higher levels of
violence in local communities of all colors and compositions. Thus, blackwhite
inequality in community violence rates persists, but in more segregated
cities all neighborhoods suffer the downside of heightened violent
crime. From this point of view, in the quest to maintain urban areas with
little violence and few other social problems, the maintenance of blackwhite
residential segregation is everyone’s problem. Ultimately, our analyses
confirm this point but nonetheless demonstrate that segregation simultaneously
reproduces inequality in criminal violence. Notably, the
mechanisms that support segregation limit the potential of African-Americans
and other nonwhites to escape the most challenging environments
that increase violence while furthering the ability of whites, as a privileged
group, to locate in the most advantaged communities where violent crime
is far away and easily kept at bay. Recognizing these fundamental realities
of the interconnections of race, place, and inequality is required for understanding
race-ethnic differences in a host of arenas, including in levels
of criminal violence

http://myweb.fsu.edu/bstults/ccj5625/readings/krivo_peterson_kuhl-ajs-2009.pdf
Click to expand...

Just tell me what pages you think support your argument and I'll go read them.
 
Re: Is being born white a privilege?

blueliner7 said:
Is this talking about America as a whole or just one city? From reading your post it sounds like one city being discussed, I'm guessing Columbus?
Click to expand...
Yes, and then in 1999 they expanded their analysis.
 
Re: Is being born white a privilege?

blueliner7 said:
Just tell me what pages you think support your argument and I'll go read them.
Click to expand...
First you complained about just providing a link, so I post the excerpt, now you want page numbers. How about just focusing on the excerpts. You can read and not respond later, as you did yesterday.
 
Re: Is being born white a privilege?

Nilly said:
Aaaaand that's a privilege you have that the people of Bangladesh don't.

As for the last line. Privilege doesn't guarantee success. Nor does 'not having' privilege deny it.
Click to expand...

:roll:

Let me know when you get a clue what "privilege" means.

In the mean time, the rest of the Nation will be rejecting the culture war and identity politics desperate Progressives are resorting to.
 
Re: Is being born white a privilege?

FreedomFromAll said:
Are you sure you linked the correct source? That paper doesnt really say anything about what you claimed. The paper does make some assumptions but it isnt science.
Click to expand...
Analysis of data is "science", believe it or not.
 
Re: Is being born white a privilege?

Gimmesometruth said:
First you complained about just providing a link, so I post the excerpt, now you want page numbers. How about just focusing on the excerpts. You can read and not respond later, as you did yesterday.
Click to expand...

Not quite, I didn't ask you to c/p, I asked you to point out where within those 31 pages you thought your argument was supported. Since you've already c/p'ed you know where this stuff is, stop being a drama queen and just give up the page numbers...unless you like the drama. I don't.
 
Re: Is being born white a privilege?

Cigar said:
Every-time I go to my Brother In-Laws house and watch 1 through 4 years old play, of all colors, you can clearly see Race hasn't infecting them ... yet.
Click to expand...

Personal case in point... Would your brother approve of you showing his kids your avatar?
 
Re: Is being born white a privilege?

ocean515 said:
:roll:

Let me know when you get a clue what "privilege" means.

In the mean time, the rest of the Nation will be rejecting the culture war and identity politics desperate Progressives are resorting to.
Click to expand...
It means in this case, "advantage"....since we are dealing in the context of majorities and minorities.

Someone quote me because the batteryman has me on ignore.
 
Re: Is being born white a privilege?

Gimmesometruth said:
Some more from their 1999 analysis:


A full 62% of all blacks in the United States live in highly
segregated metropolitan areas, with the separate black and white neighborhoods
in these areas providing distinct social environments. Indeed,
whites live almost exclusively in highly advantaged neighborhoods, while
blacks and Latinos reside in highly disadvantaged local communities. This
combination of segregation and ethnoracial differentials in social and
economic conditions provides the basic structural context within which
people of different races and ethnicities live and social problems play out.
To date, analysts have focused almost exclusively on the ways this racialized
social organization is detrimental for communities of color, particularly
African-American areas (Crane 1991; Massey and Denton 1993;
Peterson and Krivo 1993, 1999; Shihadeh and Flynn 1996; Cutler and
Glaeser 1997; Massey and Fischer 2000; Timberlake 2002; Charles 2003).
In this article, we argue that, although segregation clearly serves to
harm black communities, its role in producing social problems in neighborhoods
is broader and more complex than previously considered. Utilizing
the case of violent crime, we contend that the deleterious consequences
of segregation go beyond those felt within black and other
minority communities, creating conditions conducive to higher levels of
violence in local communities of all colors and compositions. Thus, blackwhite
inequality in community violence rates persists, but in more segregated
cities all neighborhoods suffer the downside of heightened violent
crime. From this point of view, in the quest to maintain urban areas with
little violence and few other social problems, the maintenance of blackwhite
residential segregation is everyone’s problem. Ultimately, our analyses
confirm this point but nonetheless demonstrate that segregation simultaneously
reproduces inequality in criminal violence. Notably, the
mechanisms that support segregation limit the potential of African-Americans
and other nonwhites to escape the most challenging environments
that increase violence while furthering the ability of whites, as a privileged
group, to locate in the most advantaged communities where violent crime
is far away and easily kept at bay. Recognizing these fundamental realities
of the interconnections of race, place, and inequality is required for understanding
race-ethnic differences in a host of arenas, including in levels
of criminal violence

http://myweb.fsu.edu/bstults/ccj5625/readings/krivo_peterson_kuhl-ajs-2009.pdf
Click to expand...

"Indeed,
whites live almost exclusively in highly advantaged neighborhoods, while
blacks and Latinos reside in highly disadvantaged local communities"

That is a bunch of bull****, it is dishonest at best and completely delusional. Probably written by some out of touch idiot from their advantaged office. It insults every poor white person living in highly disadvantaged neighborhoods all of the US. Crew these racist bastards.
 
Re: Is being born white a privilege?

jimbo said:
Being born anything carries with it certain privileges and certain liabilities. What you make of the privileges and liabilities is what determines the outcome.
Click to expand...

Of course, the recognition of privilege doesn't exclude self-determination in the outcome of ones life. But it certainly influences it.
 
Re: Is being born white a privilege?

Gimmesometruth said:
You know as well as I do that "trailer parks" is a metaphor for concentrations of poverty.
Click to expand...

Yes, but rest assured that trailer park residents are not all white. Poverty (economic disadvantage?) is a not a cause it is simply a symptom of personal social, cultural and educational failure. As your link emphasized, there are other "root causes" of poverty and race, in the US, is hard to separate from "culture". Many flip the "root cause" of racial differences in poverty levels and use "black culture" in place of "white privilege" to explain the statistical difference. Too many seem to use the "white privilege" to classify the white poor as lazy while asserting that the black poor are simply victims and thus not just as lazy as the white poor.
 
Re: Is being born white a privilege?

ocean515 said:
:roll:

Let me know when you get a clue what "privilege" means.

In the mean time, the rest of the Nation will be rejecting the culture war and identity politics desperate Progressives are resorting to.
Click to expand...

Lol. So your problem isn't with the concept itself but with the word that's been chosen. I'm not going to devolve into a semantic debate.
 
Re: Is being born white a privilege?

blueliner7 said:
Not quite, I didn't ask you to c/p, I asked you to point out where within those 31 pages you thought your argument was supported. Since you've already c/p'ed you know where this stuff is, stop being a drama queen and just give up the page numbers...unless you like the drama. I don't.
Click to expand...
Open the document, hit ctrl-F, input a line I quoted, viola!

Yer the one making demands that I "prove a thing, so I povide...then you go silent. Then the next day you want "page numbers" after the "proof" is provided. If you are not going to read the paper, learn how to search a doc for the relevant excerpt...it is not that tough. Stop creating barriers for yourself and act as if the problem lies with the person meeting the majority of YOUR demands.
 
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Re: Is being born white a privilege?

Trailer park talk is all red herring bull****. We would only be talking about a very small percentage of whites who are that poor.

White Privilege is impossible to deny, if you're honest.

povrace.jpg
 
Re: Is being born white a privilege?

X Factor said:
Dude, you're screwed, then. :D
Click to expand...

Why? Cigar is correct. Respect can only be earned, and respect does not make you screwed.
 
Re: Is being born white a privilege?

ttwtt78640 said:
Yes, but rest assured that trailer park residents are not all white.
Click to expand...
I never said they were, non-sequitur.
Poverty (economic disadvantage?) is a not a cause it is simply a symptom of personal social, cultural and educational failure. As your link emphasized, there are other "root causes" of poverty and race, in the US, is hard to separate from "culture".
Click to expand...
I never made an arguemt about "culture", another NON_SEQUITUR!!!
Many flip the "root cause" of racial differences in poverty levels and use "black culture" in place of "white privilege" to explain the statistical difference. Too many seem to use the "white privilege" to classify the white poor as lazy while asserting that the black poor are simply victims and thus not just as lazy as the white poor.
Click to expand...
Yer not addressing anything I said, take yer rhetorical BS and...
 
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