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Vladimir Lenin Statue in Seattle- Do you Support Communism Tributes?

Should the Vladimir Lenin statue in Seattle be removed?

  • Total voters
    21
  • Poll closed .
If you don't like it,let's see you take it down.

:lol:
 
Here's a translation of OP's argument: "liberals" are upset about confederate monuments on public properties. And presumably it is implied that they would be equally as upset about them on private property. Yet this is a communist dictator and liberals don't seem to care about it. Which means that liberals must be communists, or something, and that they are against history which isn't written in the way they believe it. And will attack freedom and history until it fits their view. Which apparently leads to some kind of Orwellian state.

Issues with OP's logic are obvious:
1. This is on private property, not public
2. Even if it were on private property, it is an expression of the right of free speech to express one's outrage over it
3. Nobody cares about a statue of Lenin because it has nothing to do with American history
4. The creation of confederate monuments were an attempt at molding history and intimidating minorities, by the right, and a removal of such statues is a correction of this offense
5. Nobody is rewriting history by removing some garbage statues
6. Most people supporting taking these down are against vandalizing public property, because most liberals believe in the law
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Aren't things going to be so much better when our environment has been cleansed of the impure?

I think that I am beginning to understand Ethnic Cleansing
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.
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That's what the Nazis were doing until the USSR and a few other countries put them out of business.

BTW: Vladimir Lenin was one of the people who started the USSR.
 
truthatallcost said:
So let's say that this was a statue of Adolph Hitler on private property,
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 but directly within sight from the public street & sidewalk. Would you want it removed then? Of course you would.

This thread is just exposing the mass hypocrisy of the left.
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It's not so that totally shoots down your argument.

Come back when you have less to say.

:lol:
 
It's on private property, not on public land and it is not supported by public money.

The comparison falls short at this point.
 
I see that as of right now 5 people have voted to remove the statue.

My guess is that's not going to happen.
 
Oborosen said:
Because he have all not failed to notice that the far-left is almost nothing but hypocritical.
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Just like the alt-right and conservatives, it is a national past time it seems.

Because let us think how much the right complained about all of Obama's vacations and golfing games, now that Trump does even more vacationing and golfing the right is virtually completely silent.
aoi
The same goes with a lot of things that were terrible/dictatorial when Obama did it, but now that their guy is in the WH, nothing but silence on those same issues.

And let us see when Trump is in his last year in office, whether a republican senate will not allow him to appoint a supreme court justice because he is in his last year (if not re-elected but that is not a certainty) but if there is a republican senate that will not happen, they will fold as fast as possible and allow him to appoint a supreme court justice.

That is a fact, but as said, all sides are just as guilty of this but let's not make it out like this is a "leftist" thing. Because that is :bs
 
truthatallcost said:
So let's say that this was a statue of Adolph Hitler on private property, but directly within sight from the public street & sidewalk. Would you want it removed then? Of course you would.

This thread is just exposing the mass hypocrisy of the left.
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That's exactly what's happening.
 
Oborosen said:
You know, I had a massive post ready.
Which I thought was poetic, but also preachy.. so why bother, but just to say this.

You can argue edict of the fact of it being private land, or government owned land all you want. But you know none of this is the right thing to do in the very least. They can whine, and cry all they want, but they have no right to destroy what they want, when they want. Just for the simple fact that it hurts their sensitivities, or be it that they want to just destroy.

These people are at the very least vandals, and at the most they are terrorist. Who should be treated as such when the sword is poised over their heads. They are doing the exact same thing now that fallen kings, and tyrants have done in the past. Through history the Christians did it with the roman, and Greek temples. Now in this age they are doing it along with the zealots over in the east. As many more across the world have done for other varied reasons.

This that is happening now is Iconoclasm plain, and simple.
Done for every possible reason they can spout, which all are still completely wrong.

If they continue like this, it will cease to be statues they burn, and will become books. Only for one day for it to graduate into the burning of those that disagree with them.

Well.. damn, it still came out preachy.
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So is it your opinion that once a statue is put somewhere it must stay unmoved until the last star in the universe dies out? That's complete nonsense and it has nothing to do with whitewashing history. Over time society's idols change and right now we no longer value foreign traitors who fought to enslave our countrymen. Do you think Germany should've left all of their Hitler statues up forever? Were they whitewashing history by removing them and replacing then with better Germans?

What compelling reason do we have to keep these statues on government land until the end of time as a mockery to the plight of black Americans? Shouldn't the government represent everyone and not just the whites?
 
Peter King said:
Just like the alt-right and conservatives, it is a national past time it seems.

Because let us think how much the right complained about all of Obama's vacations and golfing games, now that Trump does even more vacationing and golfing the right is virtually completely silent.
aoi
The same goes with a lot of things that were terrible/dictatorial when Obama did it, but now that their guy is in the WH, nothing but silence on those same issues.

And let us see when Trump is in his last year in office, whether a republican senate will not allow him to appoint a supreme court justice because he is in his last year (if not re-elected but that is not a certainty) but if there is a republican senate that will not happen, they will fold as fast as possible and allow him to appoint a supreme court justice.

That is a fact, but as said, all sides are just as guilty of this but let's not make it out like this is a "leftist" thing. Because that is :bs
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You know you are basically pointing out the same thing that correlates all of histories political systems together. There will always be pandering, and favoritism between the parties, and their respective leaders. Though I was defensive for Obama during his first term, and then I completely dropped my support after he failed to make due with his own promises. I am willing to see how things do under Trump, even though this amount of crap we are seeing leveled against him is rather comical to be honest.

As a fact however I would like to point out that the problems with Obama were grounded in fact & reality. Whereas a vast majority of the criticisms leveled at Trump are grounded in anything but those two aspects. It is this choice of avenue that I have my largest problems with, where one can find legitimate criticism with what Trump is doing. These people instead seek to follow flights of fancy, and make up stories as they go, no matter the amount of times they are caught in the lie.

You have to admit seeing CNN pander to one another on what the president "meant" during his speech. Other than just listening to what he was saying, is rather egregious of them to do in the first place. Not to mention them trying to make it seem like he is their ally.

Am I correct in this assumption?
 
RabidAlpaca said:
So is it your opinion that once a statue is put somewhere it must stay unmoved until the last star in the universe dies out? That's complete nonsense and it has nothing to do with whitewashing history. Over time society's idols change and right now we no longer value foreign traitors who fought to enslave our countrymen. Do you think Germany should've left all of their Hitler statues up forever? Were they whitewashing history by removing them and replacing then with better Germans?

What compelling reason do we have to keep these statues on government land until the end of time as a mockery to the plight of black Americans? Shouldn't the government represent everyone and not just the whites?
Click to expand...

The government does represent everyone, not just people who stood for bad things.
These statues are a mark of our history, and if they can't stay where they are, then just place them in a museum. But what Antifa is doing, and all of these despotic democrats are doing as well is white washing. They are choosing to ignore that these statues are from a time when we lacked the moral growth that we have now, and today is a sign that we are just running backwards.

These groups have proven that they want to destroy everything that even hints at an era in which they have no stake, or claim.

To paraphrase a better man "Its like hating a knight because he lacked the idea of using a gun" Those statues exist because at the time we lacked the moral growth to recognize our own failings.
As well those statues are not to the detriment of those that went though slavery, because there is no one alive who suffered through the American era of slavery. Which is another thing those statues remind us, should never happen again.
Even slavery itself was an evolution of morality. Where we used to just kill those that survived the battle, then we started to take them prisoner for slave labor.

If this stupidity continues, the situation will only get worse.
 
jdog21 said:
Ever read Seatles city ordinances for statues and lanw ordimaints? Its in violation but still stands mostly because its for sale and not a private display. spiltting hairs on the law
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I was unaware of that. Thank you
 
Oborosen said:
The government does represent everyone, not just people who stood for bad things.
These statues are a mark of our history, and if they can't stay where they are, then just place them in a museum. But what Antifa is doing, and all of these despotic democrats are doing as well is white washing. They are choosing to ignore that these statues are from a time when we lacked the moral growth that we have now, and today is a sign that we are just running backwards.

These groups have proven that they want to destroy everything that even hints at an era in which they have no stake, or claim.

To paraphrase a better man "Its like hating a knight because he lacked the idea of using a gun" Those statues exist because at the time we lacked the moral growth to recognize our own failings.
As well those statues are not to the detriment of those that went though slavery, because there is no one alive who suffered through the American era of slavery. Which is another thing those statues remind us, should never happen again.
Even slavery itself was an evolution of morality. Where we used to just kill those that survived the battle, then we started to take them prisoner for slave labor.

If this stupidity continues, the situation will only get worse.
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You didn't answer my question. The Germans have had some moral growth since WWII, did they whitewash history by removing the Hitler statues?

You can't give a reason why this absolutely must be on public land and not private land. The entire purpose of the statues was to bolster white supremacy through revisionist history, which is why most of the statues were added 50-100 years after the civil war. You can still learn history without worshipping assholes.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
You didn't answer my question. The Germans have had some moral growth since WWII, did they whitewash history by removing the Hitler statues?

You can't give a reason why this absolutely must be on public land and not private land. The entire purpose of the statues was to bolster white supremacy through revisionist history, which is why most of the statues were added 50-100 years after the civil war. You can still learn history without worshipping assholes.
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No one is worshipping them, they are there as a reminder, and no one has a right to destroy something that isn't theirs.

Apologies for not answering more directly, I kind of got lost on my own tirade there.
Yes Germany did whitewash their own history, even if they recorded it in other fashions. They still destroyed something that was meant as a symbol to be remembered for a reason. If they wanted them out of sight, then just move them to a museum for chosen viewing.

What is going on here is destruction of private, and public property. Not the least bit being an issue of trying to subvert history for your own causes.
 
Oborosen said:
You know you are basically pointing out the same thing that correlates all of histories political systems together. There will always be pandering, and favoritism between the parties, and their respective leaders. Though I was defensive for Obama during his first term, and then I completely dropped my support after he failed to make due with his own promises. I am willing to see how things do under Trump, even though this amount of crap we are seeing leveled against him is rather comical to be honest.

As a fact however I would like to point out that the problems with Obama were grounded in fact & reality. Whereas a vast majority of the criticisms leveled at Trump are grounded in anything but those two aspects. It is this choice of avenue that I have my largest problems with, where one can find legitimate criticism with what Trump is doing. These people instead seek to follow flights of fancy, and make up stories as they go, no matter the amount of times they are caught in the lie.

You have to admit seeing CNN pander to one another on what the president "meant" during his speech. Other than just listening to what he was saying, is rather egregious of them to do in the first place. Not to mention them trying to make it seem like he is their ally.

Am I correct in this assumption?
Click to expand...

What I was talking about was that in a highly partisan system like the US where there are just 2 political parties, hypocrisy runs riot.

I was not comparing previous political systems but describing the partisan slug fest that US politics has become.

The problems with Trump are equally based on facts and reality. One of those facts is his stupendous level of hypocrisy and deceitfulness. The man lies more than any other politician I have seen. And he has an alt-right love that is disturbing to say the least. And most of the time they do not have to make up stuff about Trump, they just have to wait to see him blunder again.

Personally I only watch CNN in case of a global or US disaster. For the rest it is not of too much interest to me because I do not like that kind of reporting. And I see that pandering on Foxnews too, but when it comes to Trump, at least CNN often offers 2 sides on the issue (sometimes slighted to one side) but during the time of Obama on foxnews there were no two sides, just less anti Obama and more anti-Obama, those were usually the 2 flavors that they had.

And if Trump would have a better communications strategy and would not be waging war on the newsmedia, maybe his views could be explained more thoroughly but if anyone from Team Trump comes on news shows it is to blanket the airwaves with unwavering support and denial of facts (often), but real explanations are few and far between. You may have found fault with Obama, but at least his communication with the world/the country and the media was immeasurably more efficient and professional that Trump has performed in that department.

The man cannot stay on point/issue for more than 2 seconds. Like last week, he flip flopped and flopped back again on that Charlottsville. And when news media have asked for further explanation from the WH, it mostly has been the sound of silence.

If Trump wants to succeed as a president and not be exposed to possibly not completely true narratives, then he has to make his narrative and his views crystal clear and he is failing abysmally in that.
 
truthatallcost said:
With all the hysteria surrounding the left's Great Purge of any public historical display tied to the Civil War era south & Christopher Columbus, I'm wondering why no similar outrage exists for Seattle's ode to communism?

The Statue of Lenin in Seattle is a 16 ft (4.9 m) bronze sculpture of Communist revolutionary Vladimir Lenin, since 1995 it has been up for sale and on display in an outdoor retail property in the Fremont neighborhood of Seattle.

lenin_1.jpg


"During the century measured, more people died as a result of communism than from homicide (58 million) and genocide (30 million) put together. The combined death tolls of WWI (37 million) and WWII (66 million) exceed communism's total by only 9 million."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statue_of_Lenin,_Seattle
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Yes, getting rid of those statues is causing a lot of hysteria on the right. So much that they have to find another statue to get all riled up over.
 
Oborosen said:
No one is worshipping them, they are there as a reminder, and no one has a right to destroy something that isn't theirs.

Apologies for not answering more directly, I kind of got lost on my own tirade there.
Yes Germany did whitewash their own history, even if they recorded it in other fashions. They still destroyed something that was meant as a symbol to be remembered for a reason. If they wanted them out of sight, then just move them to a museum for chosen viewing.

What is going on here is destruction of private, and public property. Not the least bit being an issue of trying to subvert history for your own causes.
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I tell you what, you collect up all the Hitler and confederate statues and put them on your own property and they can stay there until the end of time. Society is done honoring people who had no honor. We can read all about them in history books and school, we don't need them on a literal pedestal on government property. Something tells me if it were a Stalin, Obama or any other politician you hate statue being erected at your local court house you'd be livid and totally against it.
 
Peter King said:
What I was talking about was that in a highly partisan system like the US where there are just 2 political parties, hypocrisy runs riot.

I was not comparing previous political systems but describing the partisan slug fest that US politics has become.

The problems with Trump are equally based on facts and reality. One of those facts is his stupendous level of hypocrisy and deceitfulness. The man lies more than any other politician I have seen. And he has an alt-right love that is disturbing to say the least. And most of the time they do not have to make up stuff about Trump, they just have to wait to see him blunder again.

Personally I only watch CNN in case of a global or US disaster. For the rest it is not of too much interest to me because I do not like that kind of reporting. And I see that pandering on Foxnews too, but when it comes to Trump, at least CNN often offers 2 sides on the issue (sometimes slighted to one side) but during the time of Obama on foxnews there were no two sides, just less anti Obama and more anti-Obama, those were usually the 2 flavors that they had.

And if Trump would have a better communications strategy and would not be waging war on the newsmedia, maybe his views could be explained more thoroughly but if anyone from Team Trump comes on news shows it is to blanket the airwaves with unwavering support and denial of facts (often), but real explanations are few and far between. You may have found fault with Obama, but at least his communication with the world/the country and the media was immeasurably more efficient and professional that Trump has performed in that department.

The man cannot stay on point/issue for more than 2 seconds. Like last week, he flip flopped and flopped back again on that Charlottsville. And when news media have asked for further explanation from the WH, it mostly has been the sound of silence.

If Trump wants to succeed as a president and not be exposed to possibly not completely true narratives, then he has to make his narrative and his views crystal clear and he is failing abysmally in that.
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That's not totally true. I have seen Bill O'Reilly defend Obama a number of times from the rabidness of the extreme far right. Granted, he wasn't a fan of Obama and roasted him regularly.
 
truthatallcost said:
It's on a well traveled street, not in somebody's backyard.
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Would you argue differently if it were a cross? Private property should mean something.
Now the other side of the argument. What if the private owner put up a statue of Hitler? Thoughts?
 
Moderate Right said:
That's not totally true. I have seen Bill O'Reilly defend Obama a number of times from the rabidness of the extreme far right. Granted, he wasn't a fan of Obama and roasted him regularly.
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That is why I said they "usually the 2 flavors they had" and not all of the time.
 
truthatallcost said:
It's on a well traveled street, not in somebody's backyard.
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More rabid right distraction.... First if there was a Lenin statue in every 'liberal' city on PUBLIC land I'd say they should be removed. But of course there isn't... :roll:

Next the rabid right usually proclaims the sanctity of PRIVATE property and CONSTITUTIONAL rights, but in a lame attempt to link a private one off property to hundreds of PUBLIC statues for supporters of slavery and failed rebels this is the best that can be dredged up... :(

sad sad sad... :peace
 
rabidalpaca said:
i would say no, i don't think such a statue is a good idea or in good taste, however, the fundamental difference is that this is on private property and paid for with private funds. Most of the confederate statues are on public property and were paid by public funds. The government needs to represent everyone, not just whites, individuals have no such obligation.

Confederates are more than welcome to move their statues to private property where they can jerk each other off while screaming 'white power!' to their heart's desire. This is a free country after all.
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lol ............. :lol: .............
 
I voted for more. Lenin is so dreamy.
 
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