• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Permits?

Allowing Permits?

  • Total voters
    30
NeverTrump

NeverTrump

Exposing GOP since 2015
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 21, 2013
Messages
25,357
Reaction score
11,557
Location
Post-Trump America
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
Should cities be giving permits out to hate groups? I don't understand the reasoning behind permitting the people to rally around hate. Yes, there is freedom of speech but if they have to get a permit, then it's not an automatic given. If the city just says, sorry we don't want to permit this, then the Nazis will go elsewhere. (so they say) Then after the aftermath of what happened in charlottesville you had the politicians in Virginia saying that we don't want Nazis coming there anymore. What the heck did they think was gonna happen?

Everyone is saying free speech, but don't you see the irony here? If the city had just denied the permit, that would have been the simplest solution to this whole mess. Did they just give nazis the benefit of the doubt that no crazy nazi would decide to cause death? Really? Yet more cities this weekend are preparing for different themed hate rallies. Emboldened by the President I don't think they are going to, "come in peace." Even if they were, we already know what hate they are going to say.

For the purposes of this discussion, I am only talking about the groups that were in charlottesville. Namely White Supremacists, the KKK, and the Nazis. And don't just say, "the constitution." Give me a specific reason why we should listen to what these hateful people have to say. Why should we give them permission?
 
Last edited:
Permits were given to the hate groups as well as the other groups represented.

Why? the 1st Am.
 
ModerateGOP said:
Should cities be giving permits out to hate groups? I don't understand the reasoning behind permitting the people to rally around hate. Yes, there is freedom of speech but if they have to get a permit, then it's not an automatic given. If the city just says, sorry we don't want to permit this, then the Nazis will go elsewhere. (so they say) Then after the aftermath of what happened in charlottesville you had the politicians in Virginia saying that we don't want Nazis coming there anymore. What the heck did they think was gonna happen?

Everyone is saying free speech, but don't you see the irony here? If the city had just denied the permit, that would have been the simplest solution to this whole mess. Did they just give nazis the benefit of the doubt that no crazy nazi would decide to cause death? Really? Yet more cities this weekend are preparing for different themed hate rallies. Emboldened by the President I don't think they are going to, "come in peace." Even if they were, we already know what hate they are going to say.

For the purposes of this discussion, I am only talking about the groups that were in charlottesville. Namely White Supremacists, the KKK, and the Nazis. And don't just say, "the constitution." Give me a specific reason why we should listen to what these hateful people have to say. Why should we give them permission?
Click to expand...

That (bolded above) is simply saying that the government gets to decide which ideas can (or cannot) be expressed which is precisely what the 1A forbids.
 
ModerateGOP said:
Should cities be giving permits out to hate groups? I don't understand the reasoning behind permitting the people to rally around hate. Yes, there is freedom of speech but if they have to get a permit, then it's not an automatic given. If the city just says, sorry we don't want to permit this, then the Nazis will go elsewhere. (so they say) Then after the aftermath of what happened in charlottesville you had the politicians in Virginia saying that we don't want Nazis coming there anymore. What the heck did they think was gonna happen?

Everyone is saying free speech, but don't you see the irony here? If the city had just denied the permit, that would have been the simplest solution to this whole mess. Did they just give nazis the benefit of the doubt that no crazy nazi would decide to cause death? Really? Yet more cities this weekend are preparing for different themed hate rallies. Emboldened by the President I don't think they are going to, "come in peace." Even if they were, we already know what hate they are going to say.

For the purposes of this discussion, I am only talking about the groups that were in charlottesville. Namely White Supremacists, the KKK, and the Nazis. And don't just say, "the constitution." Give me a specific reason why we should listen to what these hateful people have to say. Why should we give them permission?
Click to expand...

Technichally the permits are for mass demonstrations on public property, and they technichally can not deny them over political reasons, even those ebil white supremecists have the aclu backing them cuz the first amendment.

Second when you say don't just say the constitution, it means you pretty much ruled out the constitutional rights, hmm maybe it is because it is a roadblock to blocking people you don't like from speaking, as preventing speech is the absolute cornerstone of an authoritarian govt, yet you have no issue with it as long as it is against someone you do not like.
 
Because if we take away a certain group's right to protest, politicians will want to take away more people's rights to do so.
 
Permits allow the police to prepare and work with the groups; Otherwise, and especially when permits are revoked due to thought crimes we have riots and public safety concerns. Organization is a community safety issue. Locations should be appropriate.
 
Daily reminder that hate speech is free speech and if you don't think so you are, ironically enough, participating in fascist ideology.
 
ModerateGOP said:
Should cities be giving permits out to hate groups? I don't understand the reasoning behind permitting the people to rally around hate. Yes, there is freedom of speech but if they have to get a permit, then it's not an automatic given. If the city just says, sorry we don't want to permit this, then the Nazis will go elsewhere. (so they say) Then after the aftermath of what happened in charlottesville you had the politicians in Virginia saying that we don't want Nazis coming there anymore. What the heck did they think was gonna happen?

Everyone is saying free speech, but don't you see the irony here? If the city had just denied the permit, that would have been the simplest solution to this whole mess. Did they just give nazis the benefit of the doubt that no crazy nazi would decide to cause death? Really? Yet more cities this weekend are preparing for different themed hate rallies. Emboldened by the President I don't think they are going to, "come in peace." Even if they were, we already know what hate they are going to say.

For the purposes of this discussion, I am only talking about the groups that were in charlottesville. Namely White Supremacists, the KKK, and the Nazis. And don't just say, "the constitution." Give me a specific reason why we should listen to what these hateful people have to say. Why should we give them permission?
Click to expand...

The government should be able to regulate the time/place/manner of speech on public property, such as with the handing out of permits, but they shouldn't be able to determine permits based on the content of their speech.
 
Not sure why this even needs to be a thread. If the only way to legally protest is to get a permit, then of course they can't ban it. Freedom of speech allows for these people to say these things. No matter how much someone might find them offensive.
 
ModerateGOP said:
Should cities be giving permits out to hate groups? I don't understand the reasoning behind permitting the people to rally around hate. Yes, there is freedom of speech but if they have to get a permit, then it's not an automatic given. If the city just says, sorry we don't want to permit this, then the Nazis will go elsewhere. (so they say) Then after the aftermath of what happened in charlottesville you had the politicians in Virginia saying that we don't want Nazis coming there anymore. What the heck did they think was gonna happen?

Everyone is saying free speech, but don't you see the irony here? If the city had just denied the permit, that would have been the simplest solution to this whole mess. Did they just give nazis the benefit of the doubt that no crazy nazi would decide to cause death? Really? Yet more cities this weekend are preparing for different themed hate rallies. Emboldened by the President I don't think they are going to, "come in peace." Even if they were, we already know what hate they are going to say.

For the purposes of this discussion, I am only talking about the groups that were in charlottesville. Namely White Supremacists, the KKK, and the Nazis. And don't just say, "the constitution." Give me a specific reason why we should listen to what these hateful people have to say. Why should we give them permission?
Click to expand...

Here's another way of asking that question:

Should the government, federal, state or local, allow members of hate groups to exercise their First Amendment Right to Freedom of Speech, or should they deny them that right because their speech is hateful and unpopular with the rest of us in our society?
 
ModerateGOP said:
Give me a specific reason why we should listen to what these hateful people have to say.
Click to expand...
You don't have to listen.

And as an aside, can you name a left wing group whose speech you see as 'hate speech' and whose words we should not be forced to hear?
 
Anagram said:
The government should be able to regulate the time/place/manner of speech on public property, such as with the handing out of permits, but they shouldn't be able to determine permits based on the content of their speech.
Click to expand...

I tend to agree, but I think after the events of last weekend cities and government will be looking to broaden their options. I think Boston is already doing so.
 
Koke said:
Daily reminder that hate speech is free speech and if you don't think so you are, ironically enough, participating in fascist ideology.
Click to expand...

What? that has nothing to do with fascism. It has everything to do with wondering if we should expand our powers to limit the actions of these groups.
 
ModerateGOP said:
What? that has nothing to do with fascism. It has everything to do with wondering if we should expand our powers to limit the actions of these groups.
Click to expand...

"Expanding power of government to limit the speech of a group."

No thanks. If they're violent they'll be arrested and should be handled appropriately by the police.
 
ModerateGOP said:
What? that has nothing to do with fascism. It has everything to do with wondering if we should expand our powers to limit the actions of these groups.
Click to expand...

Expand the powers of govt by denying rights to the people, is that a serious position?
 
Just wondering. Does 45 have to have a permit for his hate rallies then ?
 
Beaudreaux said:
Here's another way of asking that question:

Should the government, federal, state or local, allow members of hate groups to exercise their First Amendment Right to Freedom of Speech, or should they deny them that right because their speech is hateful and unpopular with the rest of us in our society?
Click to expand...

If it is likely that the group or words will cause violence and death, then yes it has every right to.
 
Koke said:
"Expanding power of government to limit the speech of a group."

No thanks. If they're violent they'll be arrested and should be handled appropriately by the police.
Click to expand...

Notice I said actions.
 
The purpose of the permit is not to vet the merits of the protest. It is to give the city a heads up so it can prepare for any problems that might occur as a result of it, such as traffic congestion or counter-protests or the property already being reserved for something else. It has nothing to do, or at least shouldn't have anything to do, with whether or not the city approves of your cause.
 
Skeptic Bob said:
The purpose of the permit is not to vet the merits of the protest. It is to give the city a heads up so it can prepare for any problems that might occur as a result of it, such as traffic congestion or counter-protests or the property already being reserved for something else. It has nothing to do, or at least shouldn't have anything to do, with whether or not the city approves of your cause.
Click to expand...

Also violence and death. I think when dealing with nazis, that would be a precaution one should weigh a lot stronger on them.
 
The simplest solution would to have been to reject the second permit on the same day, same time, same place.

.
 
ModerateGOP said:
Notice I said actions.
Click to expand...

I don't know really what the word "actions" all entails.

I've much given you my opinion on limitation of speech and right to come together as a group and speak in any community or environment and they have the right to do that as Americans. I would say this for White supremacists or Communists. As I've mentioned, violence on either side should be suppressed should any of it happen.
 
Koke said:
I don't know really what the word "actions" all entails.

I've much given you my opinion on limitation of speech and right to come together as a group and speak in any community or environment and they have the right to do that as Americans. I would say this for White supremacists or Communists. As I've mentioned, violence on either side should be suppressed should any of it happen.
Click to expand...

Maybe this will help you: http://myfox8.com/2017/08/16/illino...re-designating-neo-nazi-groups-as-terrorists/
 
ModerateGOP said:
Should cities be giving permits out to hate groups? I don't understand the reasoning behind permitting the people to rally around hate. Yes, there is freedom of speech but if they have to get a permit, then it's not an automatic given. If the city just says, sorry we don't want to permit this, then the Nazis will go elsewhere. (so they say) Then after the aftermath of what happened in charlottesville you had the politicians in Virginia saying that we don't want Nazis coming there anymore. What the heck did they think was gonna happen?

Everyone is saying free speech, but don't you see the irony here? If the city had just denied the permit, that would have been the simplest solution to this whole mess. Did they just give nazis the benefit of the doubt that no crazy nazi would decide to cause death? Really? Yet more cities this weekend are preparing for different themed hate rallies. Emboldened by the President I don't think they are going to, "come in peace." Even if they were, we already know what hate they are going to say.

For the purposes of this discussion, I am only talking about the groups that were in charlottesville. Namely White Supremacists, the KKK, and the Nazis. And don't just say, "the constitution." Give me a specific reason why we should listen to what these hateful people have to say. Why should we give them permission?
Click to expand...

You do realize that those groups you mentioned were not the only groups there, and obtained permits, do you not?

Methinks you need to reread the 1st amendment. While all groups have the right to speak, no group has he right to have an audience. You don't like what they say, stay home.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom