Are far-right/white nationalist groups increasing or just getting more attention?

Jesse Booth said:

It almost literally means whatever you want it to. The only defining trait I can find tying everyone on who is supposedly part of the alt-right together is a general consensus that the conservative establishment needs fixing as bad as the left does.

You may have noticed that I didn't include being on the right as a defining trait. For a bit more elaboration on that, see post 19.

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I think a slightly better indicator would be those that want to reform the Right more authoritarian. I would say groups like Libertarians and Tea Party groups who want to reform the establishment into more small government conservatism seem to be in opposition.

Captain Adverse said:

IMO it's probably just more media attention.

However, I can't be sure because over the last decade there has been a lot of anti-white propaganda from the SJW side of the house.

Currently, according to the "inter-sectional alliance of American victims" the greatest enemy in the USA is the Heterosexual White Male.

That might go some ways towards aggravating that segment of our population.

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I love it when you claim victemhood at the hands of people you claim are claiming victemhood. How about giving us some supporting links where people castigate you for your white maleness.

bearpoker said:

Are you implying that they just need to get laid? Would it were so.

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No, if that were so, we could just legalize hookers.

I mean, that some younger men have a warped sense of what it is to be a man, for a woman. They think women are just sluts. That men are superior... in a world with women making strides in equal pay and rights, these men think women need to 'get back in the kitchen', etc. These beliefs would limit their ability to understand women and relationships and because of this they are cases of 'arrested development', leading a portion of them to act out against society.

bearpoker said:

I love it when you claim victemhood at the hands of people you claim are claiming victemhood. How about giving us some supporting links where people castigate you for your white maleness.

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I'll forgive your mistake, since you are a relatively new member.

However, I am not white. :no:

The fact that you assume only a white male would dare to challenge the current SJW narrative is more telling about your prejudices than mine.

There's no particular evidence that there's any significant rise in such groups. And generally speaking, such "groups" tend to consist of a dozen or so people, so a modest rise in the number of groups wouldn't denote that many people.

As for media attention, the Westboro Baptist Church has about 30 members, but they're frequently national news. They should be ignored.

Captain Adverse said:

I'll forgive your mistake, since you are a relatively new member.

However, I am not white. :no:

The fact that you assume only a white male would dare to challenge the current SJW narrative is more telling about your prejudices than mine.

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Point taken. Now what about posting a link to support your assertions?

Nap said:

I think a slightly better indicator would be those that want to reform the Right more authoritarian. I would say groups like Libertarians and Tea Party groups who want to reform the establishment into more small government conservatism seem to be in opposition.

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Sure, there are people that want to do that in the alt-right. Then there are anti-censorship talking heads like Milo yioughwanwansomethingovich and his flock of adoring fans, very few of which want to make America more socially conservative. At least, I assume the people that support the Dangerous Faggot with his love of big black cocks and anti-regulation of sex rhetoric aren't social conservatives.

Then, youve got the centrist-ish pillar of the internet known as Kekistan lumped in there, a collective of ****posters and trolls devoted to furthering the causes of dank memery, the worship of our dark overlord Kek, and the plight of the proud Kekistani people.

It literally means just whoever.

bearpoker said:

Point taken. Now what about posting a link to support your assertions?

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One link? :comp:

Simply go to YouTube and type in Cisgender white male, or White privileged male, or anti-white propaganda and you can find as many examples as you could desire. Too much effort?

Then Google or Bing "white male privilege," etc.

I think they are getting more attention and increasing. I think growth in numbers is likely due to some people being extremely upset with the removal of Confederate memorials that they see as a huge piece of their history and identity. I personally I welcome removing them from gov property, the confederacy was a warring enemy "nation" that killed US soldiers. I also think these people are responding ignorantly and being open to white nationalist ideals in lieu of the equally disturbing social justice and BLM movements. I wouldn't say they are far right or paint a wide brush though since many support Naziism (not a conservative ideal) or are communists/socialists/anarchists.

radcen said:

Are far-right/white nationalist groups increasing or just getting more attention?

Every so often I've seen stories about far right/white nationalist groups for decades. But, for the most part it was an oddity here and there, and they were pretty much ignored otherwise. Now we're seeing them in the news more, but is the increased coverage an accurate representation of increased activity?

Hence the question.

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Without any data to back it up, I do have the impression that they are increasing both in size and in activity. That may be a function of the new media, both on air and social media, but I think it's also a function of the vast increases in displaced peoples from the Middle East and Northern Africa into Europe and the impact that has had on populations there post 9/11. It has also fed into similar unrest in America due to the changing demographics, particularly in the southern States where many are becoming predominantly Latino and that is seen by a great many as an assault on the historical/white birth and nature of the United States. Here in Canada, where we are still predominantly white and only in Toronto is multiculturalism a reality, there are also pockets that are strongly protective of their heritage, mainly white, and English and/or French.

I would also note that in America, and to a lesser extent here in Canada, many symbols of our history are being driven from the town square by professional agitators and their push for political correctness in all matters. The southern US is a prime example of a culture that is greatly under attack by the media, the PC crowds, and in some cases the federal courts. When attacked, people often organize and fight back.

Bottom line, when a person's way of life feels threatened, that person isn't always rational or realistic in his/her identification of the threat or their reaction to it. Governments need to do far more to recognize it as well as deal with it before it explodes.

digsbe said:

I think they are getting more attention and increasing. I think growth in numbers is likely due to some people being extremely upset with the removal of Confederate memorials that they see as a huge piece of their history and identity. I personally I welcome removing them from gov property, the confederacy was a warring enemy "nation" that killed US soldiers. I also think these people are responding ignorantly and being open to white nationalist ideals in lieu of the equally disturbing social justice and BLM movements. I wouldn't say they are far right or paint a wide brush though since many support Naziism (not a conservative ideal) or are communists/socialists/anarchists.

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I can certainly get behind moving the statues off of government property, and I believe I may have advocated for such a position on here a while back.

That being said, I am very concerned that these memorials will just be scrapped, and it hurts me to see the KKK and white nationalists putting the last nail in that coffin. Can these people not understand how toxic their movement is to everything they associate themselves with?

Jesse Booth said:

I can certainly get behind moving the statues off of government property, and I believe I may have advocated for such a position on here a while back.

That being said, I am very concerned that these memorials will just be scrapped, and it hurts me to see the KKK and white nationalists putting the last nail in that coffin. Can these people not understand how toxic their movement is to everything they associate themselves with?

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I find the whole idea to be absurd. Those monuments represent history. You can't retroactively change history because it makes you uncomfortable. I don't care if the south wants to have Confederacy monuments up, I don't care if they want to fly the Confederate flag, it doesn't really matter. People need to grow the hell up and deal with reality instead of pretending they can just eliminate anything they don't like.

Jesse Booth said:

I can certainly get behind moving the statues off of government property, and I believe I may have advocated for such a position on here a while back.

That being said, I am very concerned that these memorials will just be scrapped, and it hurts me to see the KKK and white nationalists putting the last nail in that coffin. Can these people not understand how toxic their movement is to everything they associate themselves with?

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I feel a better solution would be for them to purchase a private lot to relocate them to.

Lutherf said:

There are definitely more white nationalist groups today. According to a recent CNN/MSNBC poll all white males in the US are Nazi scum but a few progressive ones at least feel guilty about it so they don't count.

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The "White privileged" are now the White Nationalists!
For weeks upon end we have been hearing a mantra of "White privilege" out of the mouths of progressives and their social justice mantra.
I got news for them, I am white, my husband is white and we spent our entire life working diligently to save for our retirement. Neither one of us had any silver spoons feeding us. Never took a dime from government till it was time for Social Security and Medicare. And throughout our working lives paid into those programs. The social justice mantra from 8 years of Obama kept our portfolio from growing and experienced several losses. Over regulations will do that. Regulations is just another dirty word for taxes, hidden taxes.

I got news for them, we made too much to qualify for assistance for our children's college. Unless the kids earned scholarships in high school, you didn't qualify for any assistance while higher education continued to soar in cost. Our kids could not afford to live in dorms they stayed at home. But if you were poor from a single parent, why you got housing allowance and grant money to attend the same colleges my kids were attending and left with a bill every semester and others were not.

If this is what you call social justice then you can stick it where the sun don't shine.

The very wealthy can weather any storm. The middleclass not so much without real hardships. And the poor, well they have so many programs to pick up the slack that now they do better than the middleclass who busts their ass for everything.

Cephus said:

I find the whole idea to be absurd. Those monuments represent history. You can't retroactively change history because it makes you uncomfortable. I don't care if the south wants to have Confederacy monuments up, I don't care if they want to fly the Confederate flag, it doesn't really matter. People need to grow the hell up and deal with reality instead of pretending they can just eliminate anything they don't like.

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Related

How do you feel about the removal of Stalin, Lenin, and Hitler statues in Europe? Stalin and Lenin statues were removed decades after they died, so truly do represent history. Hitler statues not so much of course

Lord Tammerlain said:

Related

How do you feel about the removal of Stalin, Lenin, and Hitler statues in Europe? Stalin and Lenin statues were removed decades after they died, so truly do represent history. Hitler statues not so much of course

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I'd make the same argument. A lot of these have stood for decades, ripping them down doesn't change history.

Cephus said:

I'd make the same argument. A lot of these have stood for decades, ripping them down doesn't change history.

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No it does not change history.

But it changes how people view the way the government/people (in democratic states at least) hold that history.

I would typically not expect Ukraine to keep a Stalin stature in the middle of Kiev, providing it with a "celebrated" spot in the city. Some could and most likely would see it as a promotion of the actions of that person. In the case of Stalin helping to create the famine that killed millions of Ukrainians. Of course Ethnic Russian Ukrainians would probably like to see the statues back

radcen said:

Are far-right/white nationalist groups increasing or just getting more attention?

Every so often I've seen stories about far right/white nationalist groups for decades. But, for the most part it was an oddity here and there, and they were pretty much ignored otherwise. Now we're seeing them in the news more, but is the increased coverage an accurate representation of increased activity?

Hence the question.

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Can't decide. With the advent of the internet it is easier for small groups to organize and seem larger than they actually are. However, I think there is some growth in maybe something tangentially related to white nationalism or perhaps greater sympathy due to the actions of the left which have been on constant attack of white people.

You tell an entire group that they are racist, simply for their skin color or that they didn't earn what they have and you're going to raise tensions and frustrations.

Finally, what the left includes as white nationalists is ever expanding to basically include everyone who disagrees with their ideology. Everything you say is code for racism. States' rights is racism. Small government is racism. If you don't get out there and march with Black Lives Matters then you're a racist. Don't support progressive taxation, racist.

And then you've had an increase in violence and property damage from the leftist going for over a year now. Yeah...there's gonna be some kind of backlash to that. White nationalism/supremacy? Maybe it's just frustration hitting the tipping point of normal people who've done nothing but are being targeted none-the-less.

Lord Tammerlain said:

No it does not change history.

But it changes how people view the way the government/people (in democratic states at least) hold that history.

I would typically not expect Ukraine to keep a Stalin stature in the middle of Kiev, providing it with a "celebrated" spot in the city. Some could and most likely would see it as a promotion of the actions of that person. In the case of Stalin helping to create the famine that killed millions of Ukrainians. Of course Ethnic Russian Ukrainians would probably like to see the statues back

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Then add to the statue. These statues are not commemorating people, they are commemorating history. History doesn't change because it becomes politically incorrect. The idiots on the left need to stop pretending it does.

Cephus said:

I'd make the same argument. A lot of these have stood for decades, ripping them down doesn't change history.

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Ripping them down didn't magically make everyone forget who those people were either.

digsbe said:

I feel a better solution would be for them to purchase a private lot to relocate them to.

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And with how much the KKK have associated themselves with this issue, I fear that many people who would have done so are now less likely to risk the public's ire by doing so.

SmokeAndMirrors said:

Both.

What's worrying is that they're gaining in the younger generations with the alt-right.

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I've seen more white nationalist and nazi sympathizer activity on social media. It's really hard to tell what's real and what's not due to the anonymity of the web, which does have an influence on susceptible young people.

Nazi propaganda works like other types of propaganda in that it promotes an agenda through media. Why should young people be any less susceptible to propaganda now than they were in 1938 or 1939? I think that the electronic resources which are available to children help them to learn. I hope that they are learning things which are not harmful to society, for example, in a school.

Cephus said:

I don't think there are more white nationalists out there than there ever were, I think they are getting more organized, specifically in response to far-left groups like Black Lives Matter and Antifa. When things go absurdly to the left, there is going to be push back.

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I had access to computers, the internet and other multimedia when I was younger. At the time, I noticed some of my peers did not partake in various forms of social media. The first thing a teen with limited access might see on Facebook, Youtube, or /b/ could be racist and inflammatory. The curious problem is how to organize constructive learning in this situation, and I think it is of great interest to white nationalists who would probably say that their children are being indoctrinated with racist and inflammatory rhetoric. I do not believe that our history has been tampered with, and I think the far right affiliates, Nazi sympathizers, etc. are trying to portray the history of the Republic through a divisive lens.

I do agree that some of the radicalization is backlash. It seems like we are caught between a pendulum which swings toward socialism, and toward fascism on the other extreme. At this point I don't know if democracy really is a point of 'equilibrium.'

Captain Adverse said:

One link? :comp:

Simply go to YouTube and type in Cisgender white male, or White privileged male, or anti-white propaganda and you can find as many examples as you could desire. Too much effort?

Then Google or Bing "white male privilege," etc.

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Pretty much every day I'm on this sight I see posts that proclaim that liberals are racists, traitors, enemies of this country and other nonsense. I'll admit that sometimes it irritates me and even makes me angry, but I just consider the source. Never once have I considered driving my car into a group of pedestrians or joining a hate group. I also don't blame other people when I do something wrong. Even when I feel provoked. I also don't lump all conservatives together and characterize them by their worst members.

vesper said:

The "White privileged" are now the White Nationalists!
For weeks upon end we have been hearing a mantra of "White privilege" out of the mouths of progressives and their social justice mantra.
I got news for them, I am white, my husband is white and we spent our entire life working diligently to save for our retirement. Neither one of us had any silver spoons feeding us. Never took a dime from government till it was time for Social Security and Medicare. And throughout our working lives paid into those programs. The social justice mantra from 8 years of Obama kept our portfolio from growing and experienced several losses. Over regulations will do that. Regulations is just another dirty word for taxes, hidden taxes.

I got news for them, we made too much to qualify for assistance for our children's college. Unless the kids earned scholarships in high school, you didn't qualify for any assistance while higher education continued to soar in cost. Our kids could not afford to live in dorms they stayed at home. But if you were poor from a single parent, why you got housing allowance and grant money to attend the same colleges my kids were attending and left with a bill every semester and others were not.

If this is what you call social justice then you can stick it where the sun don't shine.

The very wealthy can weather any storm. The middleclass not so much without real hardships. And the poor, well they have so many programs to pick up the slack that now they do better than the middleclass who busts their ass for everything.

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And THIS right here is why people elected Trump. You bust your ass, you follow the rules, and you still BOHICA'd, without the courtesy of lube to boot. If I had known earlier the rules for chumps I would have colored outside the lines long ago. My back pocket would be much thicker.

bearpoker said:

Pretty much every day I'm on this sight I see posts that proclaim that liberals are racists, traitors, enemies of this country and other nonsense. I'll admit that sometimes it irritates me and even makes me angry, but I just consider the source. Never once have I considered driving my car into a group of pedestrians or joining a hate group. I also don't blame other people when I do something wrong. Even when I feel provoked. I also don't lump all conservatives together and characterize them by their worst members.

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That response is known as a red herring couched in an appeal to emotion followed by a straw man.

This thread is about an issue of possible growth in far-right/white nationalist groups.

There are other threads in the Forum discussing the issue of that car attack, and no one has asked what you would do in similar circumstances.