Should White Nationals and worse be referred to in relation to "Right" and "Trump"?

cabse5 said:

The KKK is in the GOP because the GOP is the only major party the DOESN'T detest whites. Have dems allow whites to be proud of their heritage and one would surely see the KKK go back to the dem fold.

Click to expand...

There is something to that I think. Certainly white people are who are being targeted in Hillary's 'basket of deplorables' and who are constantly accused as being racist, homophobic, Islamophobic, sexist, etc. etc. etc. while such views held by blacks, Hispanics, Democrats, etc. are shrugged off and ignored.

But in this era of politics of personal destruction, few on the left ever make a rational argument to defend a point of view. They make proclamations of what an acceptable point of view is and then condemn anybody who is white who doesn't embrace their proclamations.

But the Republicans are no more responsible for the KKK than the Democrats are responsible for Louis Farrakhan and his "Nation of Islam" and their anti-Semitic, anti-white, anti-Catholic and anti-gay
rhetoric.

But oddly enough David Duke insisted he had not endorsed Donald Trump when all that was the controversy:



While Louis Farrakhan strongly endorsed Barack Obama:



Did that lead every newscast and dominate the headlines for days? No.

No candidate has any control over who endorses him/her or what party people join. And to demonize people because some small radical fringe groups supports them or votes for them is silly and is promoted by silly people.

Black Dog said:

Really Eco? Please. They are bigoted against any and all things right wing, period.

Click to expand...

So, they're democrats. Big deal. That's not really bigotry. It's just politics. Snowflakes need to butch up.

No. They are using violence and trying to silence free speech. Stop playing this defend hate groups who lean left nonsense.

Click to expand...

Do you have evidence that the leadership endorses violence? I bet it turns out that a few "members" are out of line.

First thing we need to do is to define what one of them so-called White Nationalists looks like.

Civility/Reason never makes it that far in America now.

We move right along to the hanging.

GET A ROPE!

Mach said:

I'm struggling to understand what you wrote.
Bannon has been with Trump since the campaign, and appointed as senior advisor. He's in Trump's inner circle. This is public fact, it's not lopping or guessing.
And you say partially the fact...? That because ADL condemned Bannon's appointment, this is evidence that....what? That the ADL is among countless others who though that was a stupid move, or worse, that it shows what sort of person Trump is in general?

Trump's entire campaign and presidency is a political move. It's a move for perosnal power and fame for DJT. He'll use what he needs to use, and discard it if its become a liability, without a second thought. His trail of political bodies is obvious evidence.

As such, the only redeeming thing is that Trump is likely not a White Nationalist personally, he's just an ally by choice. ****ty either way.


Though I can still admit that just appointing Bannon was more or less a political move, no matter the intentions behind such a decision.

Click to expand...

The ADL is nothing but a liberal mouth peace at this point, and has just as much credibility as the SPLC as far as I'm concerned.

And why do you think that anyone would become president over something more than power, not to mention being a political move. Because the fact is that once you become president, its no longer possible for you to posses complete power, either socially or politically. Have you ever seen a president step right into the white house and just yell "All right bitches, its my house now"?
Not even Obama could swing that much weight with all of the social justice pandering that was backing him, even during his prime.

The last president I believe to actually become as such for a good reason was Kennedy, and we all know how well that went.

I used the lopping term loosely, a poor choice of words I admit. Though the fact of the matter is that Bannon was not as bad as all of the Left was trying to force down our throats, even people on the right who spoke out against his assignment was against his lack of experience for such a position, and not against him personally.

Though yes he was not as good a choice for the position as one would hope, and I think Trump either did it thinking he would be some weird diamond in the rough scenario. Or was hoping to win some more favorability points within Bannon's associates & everyone below to that extent.

To a larger extent, the whole process could have been handled more cleanly IMO. Though as we have all established, Trump is somewhat inexperienced when it comes to politics.

Business is fine, but politics is a whole other sort of beast.

Oreo said:

I doubt the former Grand Wizard of the KKK would have endorsed Hillary Clinton--and would have made this comment in Charlottesville trading Trump's name and installing Hillary Clinton's ---:2rofll:


https://www.yahoo.com/news/ex-kkk-leader-david-duke-180315141.html

There is no way anyone could have watched any of those debates either in the primary or with Hillary Clinton, and walked away believing that Trump was competent or knowledgable enough to be POTUS. If they tell you that they're lying through their teeth. So the only rational conclusion is people were voting for the insults, the offensive remarks toward Mexicans, the vile vulgar comments and the attacks on people that are non white. You can look at his rally pictures and count on one hand the number of people there that were not white.

I was literally shocked at the people I have known for years, and the racist comments that came out of their mouths when Trump hit the platform. They were so good at hiding their bigotry--and they became emboldened by him and were attracted to him like bees to honey, or in this case flies to crap.

So don't tell me that the Republican party isn't stuffed full of bigotry they are. They're also stuffed full of misogyny--something else they will not openly admit too.

Here is what a long time friend and former staffer of RONALD REAGAN had to say about Donald Trump.


You know it, you're just in denial.
Remaining Trump supporters aren't doing themselves any favors - Alabama Political Reporter

Click to expand...

Once again you are not getting the point here.

You are basically saying that its Trumps choice that these guys are his little "trumpettes" to coin a rather tired term. Even though a member of congress or any other political figure has no control on who follows their standing, or supports them.

Not to mention the fact that you seem to be forgetting there are groups even called "Blacks & Mexicans for Trump" So you're statement about there being less than a hand count either an outright lie, or you're more blind than you claim me to be. Not to mention that you can basically look at the pictures of the inauguration and see plenty of colors represented, across the demographic.

Though in a country were Whites are still the vast majority, I can see where you could mistreat your statement as truth.

Also if you still want to dig into your little guilt by association role than here.

By the Gods I love bing, don't you?

Also if you think that Trump was doing nothing but espousing racist comments, though I can't honestly think of any to my knowledge. Not any comments that I can remember him saying at least.
Then you were obviously missing the fact that half or more of the country came out in support of him. So it was obvious that he was saying something other than what you believe he was.

So there goes any claim of him being racist, bigoted, or sexist. Also lets go ahead and face it, if that was the way they acted when they noticed him come up to the podium. Its not his fault that you have **** bag friends.

I'll put this as simply as I can so that you can understand..
You are still just butt hurt over the election, and most of your argument is the same tired crap that no one else has proved since the election process began....

You can claim that I am in denial all you want, but that does not change facts.

Cardinal said:

Per the label "Trumpian": yes, absolutely.

They're a vocal and enthusiastic segment of Trump's base. They believe strongly that he and Bannon are advocates for their cause. And Trump, in return, has hired multiple xenophobic people into his administration, removed white supremacists from a Federal list of terrorist organizations, and as we've all witnessed, will not criticize them. That White Nationalist/Supremacist groups are "Trumpian" is undebatable.

Per the label "right": mixed, depending entirely on how individual Republicans reacted to the Charlottesville protests.

Far more Republicans than I ever would have expected are treating White Supremacist groups like the loser younger brother in the family who drinks and always has gambling debts: sure, he brings shame on the family, but if anybody else criticizes him, the family circles the wagons around him. By banding together and defending White Supremacist groups by trying to deflect criticism onto other groups (whataboutism), these Republicans have tacitly acknowledged that, for better or worse (it's definitely the latter), and regardless of how unhappy they are with these xenophobic groups, they are a part of the club. I don't think this would have happened ten years ago. Identity politics and tribalism has come a long way.

Click to expand...

Actually he came out to denounce the hate on all sides, but as we have seen lately. No one will ever be happy, even when getting what they want from the god damn resident of the united states.....

It was rather sad to see several of the news organizations bicker over what they believed he "meant" during that address.

CaptainCourtesy said:

Worthless extreme right wing site. Please come here with a bit more than what you've shown, because what you've shown is pretty much a big zero.

Click to expand...

You can't attack facts so you attack the source. How leftist of you.

X Factor said:

"Department of Memes" where the description of the site at the top is "official-god-emperor-trump-facebook-group" is the source you've opted for over the mainstream media? Srsly? You're going to claim others here don't know really what's going on because of biased media then proceed to use an obviously biased single source to back up your claim?

Click to expand...

The mainstream media is fake news. They do not report the truth. Did you watch any of the live streams? They show the violent leftists assaulting the Unite the Right people and they show the violent leftists surrounding Fields's car and hitting it with baseball bats. Do some actual research and quit watching MSLSD, Communist News Network,and Fraudx News.

ecofarm said:

So, they're democrats. Big deal. That's not really bigotry. It's just politics. Snowflakes need to butch up.

Click to expand...

No they are not just Democrats. They are communists, anarchists, socialists etc. So no. They are trying to silence speech, which is anti liberty AND Fascist. This is bigotry at it's finest.

ecofarm said:

Do you have evidence that the leadership endorses violence? I bet it turns out that a few "members" are out of line.

Click to expand...

If you are going to put your fingers in your ears, at least keep your eyes open.



That is just one of MANY.

They are every bit as responsible for the violence as the Nazi's etc. They have again become that which they supposedly fight. Two wrongs do not make a right.

AlbqOwl said:

Neither party has clean hands but the modern day KKK and other white supremacist groups are not all Republican any more than all Democrats support the anti-free speech violence on campus, the more hateful actions from Black Lives Matter and similar groups, etc. The 'Tea Party' movement is a mixed bag of ideologies and represented political affiliations as is 'Occupy Wallstreet'.

The final vote for the Civil Rights Act of 1964 that ended racial segregation and discrimination and ushered in the so-called 'war on poverty' was a mixed bag pro and con:

The Senate:
Democratic Party: 46–21 (69–31%)
Republican Party: 27–6 (82–18%)

The House of Representatives
Democratic Party: 153–91 (63–37%)
Republican Party: 136–35 (80–20%)

Since that time the Democratic Party has been increasingly populated with liberal/progressive/statist/leftist extremists and the Republican Party also has its more polarized constituencies, but also maintains a more live and let live position on most social issues.

My perception could be biased since so many of the Democratic leaders have spoken so much utter nonsense, but I do think the GOP does a much more consistent job of denouncing and disavowing itself from the more extreme groups the Democrats want to associate with it. For instance, there has NEVER been a national GOP convention in my memory who has given a platform to a KKK member or other separatist/white supremacist person or has sanctioned or defended any such group.

The Democrats do often give a platform to some of their more militant elements.

Click to expand...

I mostly agree with what you say in the first part of your post. In the second part, I see things completely the opposite. The GOP is far less likely to be "live and let live" with social issues. We see that clearly with LGBT concerns. for example. Socially, it is the GOP who try to dictate how people behave. I also see the GOP as doing a far worse job distancing themselves from extremists in their party than Democrats. What we often see from the GOP is a refusal to outright disavow themselves from extremists; they consider this not sanctioning, but in a sense, it's a cop out. Of course, my perception could be a bit biased since so many GOP leaders have said so many stupid things.

Indian Giver said:

You can't attack facts so you attack the source. How leftist of you.

Click to expand...

You post a source that has no credibility and has no concept of facts. How right wing of you.

I said other, because you cannot say "right wing" because that would insult all the non-racist right wing people, these are right wing extremist racists, to leave out the extremist and racist part would be wrong because then the name would no longer fit the group you want to describe.

Indian Giver said:

The mainstream media is fake news. They do not report the truth. Did you watch any of the live streams? They show the violent leftists assaulting the Unite the Right people and they show the violent leftists surrounding Fields's car and hitting it with baseball bats. Do some actual research and quit watching MSLSD, Communist News Network,and Fraudx News.

Click to expand...

Oh, I'm not one that denies or doesn't see media bias, but do you not see the irony in you also citing an openly biased source as you lament media bias?

Zyphlin said:

First, let me prephase (sic) this question with a general statement. By and large, most people that are not part of said movement view the idea of White Nationalism, and the more extreme off shoots such as full on white supremacy or white separatism, as a abhorrent ideology on the whole. This is the case right or left, Republican or Democrat.

Click to expand...

False, this is a false premise. Anyone with any sort of poli-science understanding should know that WN is an ultra conservative RIGHT-wing ideology, so it cannot be separated from what it is. It does not exist in some partitioned off segmented universe outside of US conservative politics.

This is simply an attempt by conservatives, like yourself, who want to not be associated with your more extreme ideological brothers in any way shape or form. Your side has allowed this monster to grow, it is becoming more uncontrolled, and your President who ran on your ticket is trying to normalize what they are doing.

Not an attempt in the least for that on my part. I agree, it absolutely does fall within the far right side of the left/right political scale. The political science notion of where they fit on the scale isn't really the question.

The question is whether or not people should be identifying it as such routinely and continually, either with adjectives such as "extreme" or "radical" or at times simply with "right" with no qualifier. Whether it is beneficial or helpful to do that? Or whether or not doing so helps to alienate potential allies in the fight against such things and smear innocent individuals by association.

Zyphlin said:

Not an attempt in the least for that on my part. I agree, it absolutely does fall within the far right side of the left/right political scale. The political science notion of where they fit on the scale isn't really the question.

The question is whether or not people should be identifying it as such routinely and continually, either with adjectives such as "extreme" or "radical" or at times simply with "right" with no qualifier. Whether it is beneficial or helpful to do that? Or whether or not doing so helps to alienate potential allies in the fight against such things and smear innocent individuals by association.

Click to expand...

Which is a valid question. We saw a plethora of conservatives condemning these extremists and its unfair to those reasonable enough to do so to group them into the WS/WN/Neo-Nazi categories.

CaptainCourtesy said:

I mostly agree with what you say in the first part of your post. In the second part, I see things completely the opposite. The GOP is far less likely to be "live and let live" with social issues. We see that clearly with LGBT concerns. for example. Socially, it is the GOP who try to dictate how people behave. I also see the GOP as doing a far worse job distancing themselves from extremists in their party than Democrats. What we often see from the GOP is a refusal to outright disavow themselves from extremists; they consider this not sanctioning, but in a sense, it's a cop out. Of course, my perception could be a bit biased since so many GOP leaders have said so many stupid things.

Click to expand...

Well obviously, perception is in the eye of the beholder. I simply don't see Republicans demanding that other people stop being who and what they are. When it comes to social issues, all most Republicans mostly ask is the right to be who and what they are in peace. Yes they vote their values just like everybody else does, but they aren't out accusing, dictating, or demanding that others be just like them. You don't see the GOP or rightwingers organizing and staging protests to prevent a liberal speaker from speaking. You don't see the those right of center organizing protests or trying to get somebody fired or threatening somebody's customers, advertisers, suppliers for no other reason than a person gave a politically incorrect opinion.

When the American Family Council tried to get J.C. Penney to not use Ellen Degeneres as their spokesperson--she is gay--the rest of us let the AFC know that was not acceptable and denounced that effort and the AFC backed down. I don't see a lot of Democrats or leftists protesting the hateful things done by the left.

And I would bet an expensive steak dinner that there are precious few on the right who do not condemn the agenda of the KKK, skinheads, and all white supremacist groups and militant activities of such groups.

Those people are not rightwingers. They are anarchists, rebels against the norm, and more in the style of movements that turn violent and eventually result in leftist totalitarian regimes. Think Lenin. Think Mao. The only difference between the KKK, skinheads, white supremacist and the violent leftist groups is what they claim to champion and who they vote for President.

Oreo said:

Unfortunately for you, they feel they represent Trump and stated so in Charlottesville. Here is former Grand Wizard, David Duke of the KKK & his statement.


https://www.yahoo.com/news/ex-kkk-leader-david-duke-180315141.html

While the Republican party is not thrilled to have White Supremacists, Neo-Nazi's and the ALT right as new members of the party, they're here because of Trump. In fact, they were even making robo calls for Trump.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-to-back-donald-trump/?utm_term=.a3c1eda49614

So Trump washed it out, with his first Presidential tweety response--and these white hate groups took his statement as a nod of approval.


Trump made two statements on Charlottesville. Here's how white nationalists heard them. - CNNPolitics

This is what Hillary Clinton meant when she stated that half of Trump's base are deplorables. She's right they are, and they crawled out from under their rocks to support Trump. Often times I would watch a Trump rally and it very reminiscent of an angry, ignornant all white mob that came right out of the 1960's civil rights movement. And I imagine 50% of the people who voted for Trump, have an ingrained bias against people of color. Blacks, Mexicans, Asians, etc. etc. whatever. They're very good at hiding it, but then along came Trump and they came out of their closets in mass.

What do we expect when there is a National candidate campaigning on hate, division & violence? This is not surprising to me at all. And you saw it too. There's no denying it.


So the Republican party has added a new wing to it. You have moderates, the far religious right aka Tea Party, and now another wing White Nationalists aka the ALT right (Neo Nazi's and White Supremacists.)

Click to expand...

Theres nothing unfortunate about it for me at all my statment is still correct. Like your "feelings", my feelings or their "feelings" they don't matter. They don't represent Trump or the right.

AlbqOwl said:

Well obviously, perception is in the eye of the beholder. I simply don't see Republicans demanding that other people stop being who and what they are. When it comes to social issues, all most Republicans mostly ask is the right to be who and what they are in peace. Yes they vote their values just like everybody else does, but they aren't out accusing, dictating, or demanding that others be just like them. You don't see the GOP or rightwingers organizing and staging protests to prevent a liberal speaker from speaking. You don't see the those right of center organizing protests or trying to get somebody fired or threatening somebody's customers, advertisers, suppliers for no other reason than a person gave a politically incorrect opinion.

Click to expand...

All of the above is pretty silly. Republicans certainly demand people to stop being who they are. They complain about transsexuals and try to set discriminatory laws against them They do the same thing about homosexuals. And all of these laws are not based on "what's right" but are based on their own personal morality. Rightwinger don't organize protests as much as leftwingers. Instead they spread misinformation and lies through publications and try to get laws based on their own morality and discrimination passed. Wondering what's right never enters their minds in those cases. Left winger don't do that. And right wingers CONSTANTLY try to tell others how they should be. Either you do "x" or you are not patriotic. Either you do "y" or you are not a true American. These are things only right wingers say, not left wingers.

When the American Family Council tried to get J.C. Penney to not use Ellen Degeneres as their spokesperson--she is gay--the rest of us let the AFC know that was not acceptable and denounced that effort and the AFC backed down. I don't see a lot of Democrats or leftists protesting the hateful things done by the left.

Click to expand...

Probably because you don't see left wing groups doing stupid hateful things like the extreme and hateful right wing AFC do.

And I would bet an expensive steak dinner that there are precious few on the right who do not condemn the agenda of the KKK, skinheads, and all white supremacist groups and militant activities of such groups.

Click to expand...

And where did I say differently? KKK groups are decidedly right wing... extreme right wing. Moderate right wingers want nothing to do with them. I would bet a steak dinner that MODERATE left wingers want nothing to do with a moron like Al Sharpton, for example.

You're doing what you always do, Albq. Ignoring the fact that YOUR side does precisely what you claim the other side does. You must never interact with moderate left wingers and prefer to completely ignore some of the obvious stuff that some on your side do.

Those people are not rightwingers. They are anarchists, rebels against the norm, and more in the style of movements that turn violent and eventually result in leftist totalitarian regimes. Think Lenin. Think Mao. The only difference between the KKK, skinheads, white supremacist and the violent leftist groups is what they claim to champion and who they vote for President.

Click to expand...

Of course they are right wingers. They are exactly like the groups that turn into totalitarian and fascist right wing regimes. Wanna see an example? Go over to stormfront. All rightwing bigots and fascists over there. Now, that doesn't mean that all right wingers are like that. In fact, very few are. But these folks certainly are right wingers and they act just like the fascist right wingers they emulate.

CaptainCourtesy said:

All of the above is pretty silly. Republicans certainly demand people to stop being who they are. They complain about transsexuals and try to set discriminatory laws against them They do the same thing about homosexuals. And all of these laws are not based on "what's right" but are based on their own personal morality. Rightwinger don't organize protests as much as leftwingers. Instead they spread misinformation and lies through publications and try to get laws based on their own morality and discrimination passed. Wondering what's right never enters their minds in those cases. Left winger don't do that. And right wingers CONSTANTLY try to tell others how they should be. Either you do "x" or you are not patriotic. Either you do "y" or you are not a true American. These are things only right wingers say, not left wingers.



Probably because you don't see left wing groups doing stupid hateful things like the extreme and hateful right wing AFC do.



And where did I say differently? KKK groups are decidedly right wing... extreme right wing. Moderate right wingers want nothing to do with them. I would bet a steak dinner that MODERATE left wingers want nothing to do with a moron like Al Sharpton, for example.

You're doing what you always do, Albq. Ignoring the fact that YOUR side does precisely what you claim the other side does. You must never interact with moderate left wingers and prefer to completely ignore some of the obvious stuff that some on your side do.



Of course they are right wingers. They are exactly like the groups that turn into totalitarian and fascist right wing regimes. Wanna see an example? Go over to stormfront. All rightwing bigots and fascists over there. Now, that doesn't mean that all right wingers are like that. In fact, very few are. But these folks certainly are right wingers and they act just like the fascist right wingers they emulate.

Click to expand...

FreeRepublic is clearly a "Conservative" Right site. They advertise it as such. And, it's pretty much Stormfront without the Nazi symbols. The things said there certainly parallel Stormfront opinions.

Indian Giver said:

The mainstream media is fake news. They do not report the truth. Did you watch any of the live streams? They show the violent leftists assaulting the Unite the Right people and they show the violent leftists surrounding Fields's car and hitting it with baseball bats. Do some actual research and quit watching MSLSD, Communist News Network,and Fraudx News.

Click to expand...

The Nazi had a word for it, "Lugenpresse."

Just pointing out the obvious here. You're saying exactly what they said 80 years ago. Exactly.