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Is North Korea provoking the U.S.?

Is North Korea provoking the U.S.?

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X Factor

X Factor

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I'm seeing a fairly large amount of blame heaped on Trump for provoking or antagonizing North Korea, but isn't it possible that we're the ones being provoked? Kim Jong Un is bragging about being able to reach the U.S. with nukes. That's a clear threat to me. I think we've been so accustomed under Obama (and Bush too) to the U.S. trying to placate and not offend our enemies because we fear how dangerous they can be that it's been forgotten that we can be pretty damn dangerous when provoked too.

North Korea missile test puts major US cities in range, experts say - CNN

Frankly, I agree with Trump's quotes in this link (and it's CNN, so it's not like it a Trump apologist site).
 
X Factor said:
I'm seeing a fairly large amount of blame heaped on Trump for provoking or antagonizing North Korea, but isn't it possible that we're the ones being provoked? Kim Jong Un is bragging about being able to reach the U.S. with nukes. That's a clear threat to me. I think we've been so accustomed under Obama (and Bush too) to the U.S. trying to placate and not offend our enemies because we fear how dangerous they can be that it's been forgotten that we can be pretty damn dangerous when provoked too.

Frankly, I agree with Trump's quotes in this link (and it's CNN, so it's not like it a Trump apologist site).
Click to expand...

Don't see a link, but little fattie definitely is the provoker. It's worked well in the past for him. Now there is a new sheriff in town. And this one packs a sidearm instead of a wallet full of cash and a book of apologies. Unless he's butt crazy stupid, and he might be, all he will go is mouth off. Considering it's Trump he has no chance in that contest either,
 
No... they are being North Korea. They have been doing this for 30+ years.. the one provoking is Trump.
 
jimbo said:
Don't see a link, but little fattie definitely is the provoker. It's worked well in the past for him. Now there is a new sheriff in town. And this one packs a sidearm instead of a wallet full of cash and a book of apologies. Unless he's butt crazy stupid, and he might be, all he will go is mouth off. Considering it's Trump he has no chance in that contest either,
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Maybe the unpredictability of Trump is a positive. Kim could be pretty sure of Obama's reaction (none or maybe even a sweet Iran type deal). Can't be sure about Trump.

Oh, added the link.
 
Of course NK is provoking the United States. I'm not sure that is even up for debate. How the United States should respond seems like the real debate to me.
 
Of course KJUs NorKo is provoking. They've been playing this game for decades.

Although responding with bravado feels good, the odds are very good that the Kim regime will continue to test ICBMs with increasing range and incrementally heavier payloads.
 
NK is provoking the world. The UN means nothing to NK.
imo, NK is not a US issue. It is a world issue.
 
PeteEU said:
No... they are being North Korea. They have been doing this for 30+ years.. the one provoking is Trump.
Click to expand...

Blame America first to the end. :lol: It does not seem, to me, that you would ever see the US acting in favor of it own security as being justified.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Of course KJUs NorKo is provoking. They've been playing this game for decades.

Although responding with bravado feels good, the odds are very good that the Kim regime will continue to test ICBMs with increasing range and incrementally heavier payloads.
Click to expand...

Which is why should be using their tests for our tests of anti ballistic missile systems. It would piss on the dog eating dictators parade and give our anti ballistic missile systems relatively unpredictable schedules and flights to practice with.
 
PeteEU said:
No... they are being North Korea. They have been doing this for 30+ years.. the one provoking is Trump.
Click to expand...

More like 70 years, but NK being NK IS mouthing off and provoking. Trump responds. That's generally his style.
 
X Factor said:
I'm seeing a fairly large amount of blame heaped on Trump for provoking or antagonizing North Korea, but isn't it possible that we're the ones being provoked? Kim Jong Un is bragging about being able to reach the U.S. with nukes. That's a clear threat to me. I think we've been so accustomed under Obama (and Bush too) to the U.S. trying to placate and not offend our enemies because we fear how dangerous they can be that it's been forgotten that we can be pretty damn dangerous when provoked too.

North Korea missile test puts major US cities in range, experts say - CNN

Frankly, I agree with Trump's quotes in this link (and it's CNN, so it's not like it a Trump apologist site).
Click to expand...

Sure Kim is saying and doing provocative thinks. But it is more likely that that is not his main goal. That is to strengthen his position by showing his people that he has important enemies that can't touch him. But his first driver is probably doing China a favor. The chinese want to test the US to understand, how the US reacts to threat and danger.
 
PirateMk1 said:
Which is why should be using their tests for our tests of anti ballistic missile systems. It would piss on the dog eating dictators parade and give our anti ballistic missile systems relatively unpredictable schedules and flights to practice with.
Click to expand...

That would be kind of awesome.
 
X Factor said:
Blame America first to the end. :lol: It does not seem, to me, that you would ever see the US acting in favor of it own security as being justified.
Click to expand...

No the blame should go where it is deserved. North Korea has been saying **** about the US for decades for ****s sake.... they have made propaganda videos showing the bombing of US cities and made Photoshoped crap galore to show to a domestic audience.

Now Trump comes along and suddenly we are at the brink of nuclear war because of the child in the White House. There is no reason to say what he is saying... everyone knows that any attack by North Korea on anyone will be met with massive retribution.. the North Koreans know this.

So why is Trump doing this? To bolster his failing administration at home, which is a technique that the Kim family in North Korea has been doing for generations. Why do I know this? Because he has also threatened other "enemies" with military action out of the blue. It is a classic tactic.

The facts are clear.. any nuclear attack will be the end of the world. The fall out will poison large parts of the region and carry its deadly contaminants all the way to the US. It will kill 10s of millions if not hundreds of millions. Is that what you want? Trump is unstable and should be removed from office asap. Thank god his people behind him have "cooled" the rhetoric a bit, and of course contradicting their commander in chief. Lets pray that the US does not attack North Korea,... the North wont be the first to shoot.
 
jimbo said:
More like 70 years, but NK being NK IS mouthing off and provoking. Trump responds. That's generally his style.
Click to expand...

And maybe it's time to respond to threats rather than tiptoe around them.
 
mike2810 said:
NK is provoking the world. The UN means nothing to NK.
imo, NK is not a US issue. It is a world issue.
Click to expand...

Which is why the world seems to be falling in place backing the US. China issued a don't start nothing warning to NK. Japan and Australia says were in. Europe has a cover each others backs pact with the US. More and more Kimmie is standing alone with his pants around his ankles.
 
jimbo said:
More like 70 years, but NK being NK IS mouthing off and provoking. Trump responds. That's generally his style.
Click to expand...

Yea... that is what happens when you have two bullies facing off... usually ends in a fight for supremacy and that is what worries me.
 
X Factor said:
And maybe it's time to respond to threats rather than tiptoe around them.
Click to expand...

Sure is.

Trump is doing that. He dropped 60 or so missiles on an airbase suspected of being a launch site for hostile air strikes. Kimmie and Iran had to notice.

We're not going to war over bluster or a few test missiles dropped into the sea. Both sides know that. IMO the real danger is that one of the tests accidentally lands on a US ship or makes it to Japan or Guam.

Given the technology or lack of it of NK missiles that could happen.
 
PeteEU said:
No the blame should go where it is deserved. North Korea has been saying **** about the US for decades for ****s sake.... they have made propaganda videos showing the bombing of US cities and made Photoshoped crap galore to show to a domestic audience.

Now Trump comes along and suddenly we are at the brink of nuclear war because of the child in the White House. There is no reason to say what he is saying... everyone knows that any attack by North Korea on anyone will be met with massive retribution.. the North Koreans know this.

So why is Trump doing this? To bolster his failing administration at home, which is a technique that the Kim family in North Korea has been doing for generations. Why do I know this? Because he has also threatened other "enemies" with military action out of the blue. It is a classic tactic.

The facts are clear.. any nuclear attack will be the end of the world. The fall out will poison large parts of the region and carry its deadly contaminants all the way to the US. It will kill 10s of millions if not hundreds of millions. Is that what you want? Trump is unstable and should be removed from office asap. Thank god his people behind him have "cooled" the rhetoric a bit, and of course contradicting their commander in chief. Lets pray that the US does not attack North Korea,... the North wont be the first to shoot.
Click to expand...

No, I don't want war but I don't know that continually rolling over and trying to placate and being inoffensive and promising never to respond really makes anything any safer. Maybe the fact that NK has been doing it's provocations for 30 years as you state indicates that complete capitulation and giving them a complete pass hasn't been the best policy.
 
PeteEU said:
Yea... that is what happens when you have two bullies facing off... usually ends in a fight for supremacy and that is what worries me.
Click to expand...

Trump will not respond with weapons unless Kimmie starts it. Hopefully Kimmie knows that.
 
X Factor said:
No, I don't want war but I don't know that continually rolling over and trying to placate and being inoffensive and promising never to respond really makes anything any safer. Maybe the fact that NK has been doing it's provocations for 30 years as you state indicates that complete capitulation and giving them a complete pass hasn't been the best policy.
Click to expand...

They have not been given a complete pass.. they have been under sanctions for a long time and isolated

There is no win win situation here. The status quo before Trump started his madness was about the best we could hope for. It sucks for the people living in North Korea, but at least the rest of the region is safe. With the provocations by Trump, that status quo is now under serious threat. The US military is not all mighty and has shown time and time again that it miss calculates its own power. The US can not stop the North from flattening the South or attacking Japan with devastating consequences.. and that is even without nukes. The US troops in the South would suffer serious causalities within the first few hours/days of a conflict. The North has had 70 years to plan for this, so it wont be a walk in the park.
 
PeteEU said:
Yea... that is what happens when you have two bullies facing off... usually ends in a fight for supremacy and that is what worries me.
Click to expand...

Someone's not being a bully for standing up to a bully and bullies tend to back down when confronted by someone of equal or greater strength, that's why they're bullies. I'm not saying, at all, that international relations are so simple and I don't want to go right to military responses, but neither do I think that should be off the table.

Still, that's the first time you've acknowledged some sort of negative attribute for Kim Jong Ung, so that's some progress.
 
PeteEU said:
They have not been given a complete pass.. they have been under sanctions for a long time and isolated

There is no win win situation here. The status quo before Trump started his madness was about the best we could hope for. It sucks for the people living in North Korea, but at least the rest of the region is safe. With the provocations by Trump, that status quo is now under serious threat. The US military is not all mighty and has shown time and time again that it miss calculates its own power. The US can not stop the North from flattening the South or attacking Japan with devastating consequences.. and that is even without nukes. The US troops in the South would suffer serious causalities within the first few hours/days of a conflict. The North has had 70 years to plan for this, so it wont be a walk in the park.
Click to expand...

We haven't miscalculated our own power, we've just prevented ourselves from using it.
 
X Factor said:
Blame America first to the end. :lol: It does not seem, to me, that you would ever see the US acting in favor of it own security as being justified.
Click to expand...

What's the matter was Afghanistan and Iraq not enough that you need more wars?
 
jimbo said:
Trump will not respond with weapons unless Kimmie starts it. Hopefully Kimmie knows that.
Click to expand...

Kimmie knows that, else he would have invaded the South long ago. Now Trump, he is so unstable that the only thing so far stopping him doing something really stupid is his generals it seems.
 
PeteEU said:
No... they are being North Korea. They have been doing this for 30+ years.. the one provoking is Trump.
Click to expand...

So NK has been doing it for 30+ years, makes them innocent. Thus anything Trump says makes him the guilty one.

I must say, that is sound logic.
 
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