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Justification For US Military Attack On North Korea

Justification For US Military Assault on NK:

  • Approval from China in any form

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Only in the form of a coalition strike, including China

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Nuke them Now - NOW

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    15
Short of a strike by NK, we should not attack them. Trump is putting them into a corner and there are millions of lives at stake on the Korean Peninsula, let alone the future ramifications a military attack will have in the region or our allies. Trump is just giving the NK leader legitimacy by this bloviating he is doing. It's amazing how many warhawks want to see millions of people die in a war just because Trump is having domestic problems at home.

Remember how many people kept predicting that Trump might get us into a war to try to distract us from the problems back hope? Well, look at where we are now. And we haven't even had our Reichstag Fire yet. *shudder*
 
But what would that look like? What's "verifiable evidence"?

They have ICBM-like rockets.
Supposedly, they have "small" nukes that could conceivably fit into one of their rockets.
They are shouting threatening words.

Outside of actually firing an armed ICBM-like rocket towards our coast, or into South Korea, what is "preparing to strike"?

Like with many things as of late, people are allowing their hatred of Trump to cloud their good sense.

What do we have here. We have a belligerent country who has acquired nuclear and intercontinental missile capability. This country's leader has been known to be, politely put, erratic. This country is stating that it will perform what essentially is a mock missile attack with it's missiles landing just a handful of miles outside Guam's territorial waters. Its flight path will invade Japanese airspace and will put numerous commercial vessels and planes whose flight paths cross the intended course at great risk.

Now seeing as they gave a heads up on what they intend to do, we can safely assume (relatively) that this is a test of their capabilities and not an actual attack. However, this is clearly a provocation and a reckless act. What I'm concerned about is an unintended outcome of this test. Another thing that concerns me which no one seems to be speaking about is that NK got awful advanced awfully quick. The obvious conclusion to be drawn is that they're being helped. So, who is helping them?

Back to the question at hand, let's say that the missile lands 5km off the coast and not 30-40km as was announced. When it breaks that threshold, what happens? We do nothing? What if it strikes a merchant vessel? Takes out a plane? Hits Guam did center? or Okinawa? However unlikely it may be -- that threshold being broke or any of the other scenarios doesn't mean they've miscalculated.

It could very well be an intended faux pas. With Kim running into papa Xi Jinping's lap and saying "I didn't mean it dada, I didn't mean it..it was an accident..." all the while knowing damn good and well he did, but now has political cover with China.

We have a Press full of braying asses in opposition to Trump questioning every thing he does, damn near seditious bastards roaming the halls of Congress not wanting to make a decision one way or the other because their political lives are on the line should they make the wrong decision, a China emboldened saying, "ah ta ta, wait a minute, it was an accident, don't do anything rash" and a smirking little ****box sticking his tongue out when papa Xi isn't looking laughing at Trump and the United States for being ineffectual, limp-wrested cowards of their own making. And why? Because people aren't grown up enough to accept that the President is the President and that's the end of it.

So what I'm saying is people need to really think about this and not just knee-jerk react.

All this hullabaloo about "OMG, OMG TRUMP HAS THE NUCLEAR CODES?!?!?!?!? CHRIST ALMIGHTY!!! NO, NO NO!!!!" needs to calm down.

First and foremost, protocol for nuclear weapons is a two man gig starting with the President of the United States and it has to be seconded by the Secretary of Defense. It then does down the line in two man teams that have to be in agreement all the way down to the 2 men with their hands on the keys getting ready to turn. So everyone needs to really chill with that crap.

Second, if nothing becomes of this and everything goes off as planned I would tell Xi that he needs to check his boy. ASAP. I would tell China that they are enabling this behavior and as is known pretty much everywhere the responsibility of the child falls on the parent. Therefore we will hold China personally responsible for Kim's actions and demand his removal. They can put whatever puppet they like in his place but him and the NK nuclear and missile program has to go away for good.

I would offer Putin a NATO drawback pulling out of eastern Europe if he successfully applies pressure to his strategic partner Xi to see that Kim is removed. This allows Putin the opportunity to show his genuine intentions to work with the West. (we can always put them back under some pretense at a later date if relations sour)

Should they decline this gesture then we congratulate Japan and South Korea on becoming the proud owners of a dozen or so of America's finest nuclear missiles.

Now Putin nor Xi will find the stick acceptable and it will escalate, but in the end the object is to make it more painful for Kim to stay in power than it is beneficial.

As I've unintentionally written a book here, I'll leave it at that.
 
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IYHO, what would reasonably justify a US military attack on North Korea?

Not just a warning shot, but an actual planned and orchestrated strike using deadly force.

Words alone?

Outright attempt at strike on US mainland?

Strike against South Korea?

Attempt to hit Guam?

Are we justified as of today (August 9th, 2017)?



Technically we're still at war with them.... no peace was ever declared. No justification needed.


Pragmatically I hope it doesn't come to that.... it would be a terrible horrible mess.
 
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Twitter karma

 
Technically we're still at war with them.... no peace was ever declared. No justification needed.

You can see how that works for both sides here right? NK is tying to protect itself. SO of course they're trying desperately to develop any means they can of fending off another attack.

NK is "justified" in marching forward with weapons development. A nuclear deterrent, along with a seemingly mad-man at the button provides a great reason to NOT invade NK.

Pragmatically I hope it doesn't come to that.... it would be a terrible horrible mess.

Indeed. :cheers:
 
Tell me why we should fear N. Korea's weak unproven weaponry when Russia and China have 1000's of sophisticated ICBM's tipped with far more powerful H-Bombs targeted at us right at this moment?

Its always the squeaky wheel that gets attention. I honestly dont know that we need to fear NK at all. They have had these capabilities for at least half a decade. Its the media that very recently decided to report on the potential pitfalls of having a lunatic in NK with wmd.
 
Remember how many people kept predicting?

I am ok with those doom and gloom predictions because these are the exact same people that predicted Hillary would win in a 95% landslide.

This clearly shows how out of touch with reality they were then.

There has not been much evidence of course correction since the election either.

Opposing them is pretty much a safe bet of being on the right side of an issue these days.
 
I am ok with those doom and gloom predictions because these are the exact same people that predicted Hillary would win in a 95% landslide.

This clearly shows how out of touch with reality they were then.

There has not been much evidence of course correction since the election either.

Opposing them is pretty much a safe bet of being on the right side of an issue these days.

So you're OK with Donald and Kim-Jong un taking us to the brink of nuclear war?
 
IYHO, what would reasonably justify a US military attack on North Korea?

Not just a warning shot, but an actual planned and orchestrated strike using deadly force.

Words alone?

Outright attempt at strike on US mainland?

Strike against South Korea?

Attempt to hit Guam?

Are we justified as of today (August 9th, 2017)?

I honestly don't think there's any justification apart from defending their Asian neighbors from NK making an actual first-strike attempt to attack them. Because at the end of the day, North Korea can't take down the US. They probably don't even have the tech to make a significant strike on the US, at least right now.

What they CAN do to kill tens of millions of South Koreans and Japanese, and that is probably what they'd do if we were to launch an attack on them. It is irresponsible for us to start a war with someone when we aren't the ones who will have to pay for it.

I certainly find it offensive that Trump is so cavalier about American lives (including the tens of thousands of American soldiers in Seoul), but it is even more offensive that he might be so cavalier with the lives of people in other nations who didn't even get a say in Trump playing fast and loose with their national security.
 
Actually this is a no brainier....any attack by North Korea on any of our allies is a attack on the US. Negotiations over the past 40 years has lead to NK getting a nuclear bomb and now intercontinental missiles....talking with a country lead by a nut case will not achieve anything at this point.
China needs to be the one who has the power over NK not the US.
 
So you're OK with Donald and Kim-Jong un taking us to the brink of nuclear war?

Actually it is not Trump who has pushed us on the brink of Nuclear war...its the appeasement policies of the past 40 years by both democrats and republican administrations that has lead us to this point.
 
So you're OK with Donald and Kim-Jong un taking us to the brink of nuclear war?

I have no idea how you catapulted to that conclusion but KJU and family have not changed the rhetoric in generations. How you can suddenly blame Trump for "taking us to the brink" is simply silly.

What is different now is we are not going to meekly accept being extorted for billions. Extortion worked the last few times and this time it will not.

If the language is shocking to you then take a peek at the basement around here for a view of the worst humanity can offer.

The appeasement policies of decades have led to this if blame must be assigned. This is a classic neville chamberlain strategic legacy..

Kick the can down the road until there is no road and someone must pick it up eventually. Someone else preferably.

China needs to believe we have had enough and will not put up with this behavior any more.. If they do not reign in NK then there will be trouble.
 
Any attack by NK against the US or US territory would justify a unilateral US response. Any attack by NK on a US ally would justify a joint coalition response.

But NK isn't going to do either of those that because that's obviously suicide. Kim is posturing to improve his bargaining position internationally. Nuclear weapons are the ultimate safety blanket. When you have them, regime change is off the table. They may frown and sanction you for human rights abuses, but having nuclear weapons means that other countries have to ensure you stay in power.... otherwise your weapons might fall into the hands of someone like ISIS.

This was exactly the same calculus with Saddam. Obviously he didn't want actual WMDs, because they had to be stored and he'd be removed if they were found. And obviously he needed to pretend to have WMDs because the fear of their use upon his removal acts as a deterrent. These guys play a different game. Dictators don't lose elections and go retire on the countryside to write books, they end up like Qaddafi.
 
The same way we would have determined immediate risk with the former Soviet Union. We monitored them for launches and so on.

But that's not a risk, that's an attack. Once they launch, they've taken the first aggressive step.
 
You can see how that works for both sides here right? NK is tying to protect itself. SO of course they're trying desperately to develop any means they can of fending off another attack.

NK is "justified" in marching forward with weapons development. A nuclear deterrent, along with a seemingly mad-man at the button provides a great reason to NOT invade NK.



Indeed. :cheers:


I'm not overly interested in being fair to Kim Jong. He and his predecessors are horrible people who have done horrible things to their own citizens, and the current conflict is driven almost 100% by the Kim's nuclear program and aggressive behavior. He and his top people need to die, badly, for the sake of humanity.


Having said that, the likelihood of any military action turning most of the pennensula into bomb craters and all manner of other possible consequences argues that we should exercise restraint unless Kim does something entirely intolerable like hitting Guam or Japan, etc.
 
I'm not overly interested in being fair to Kim Jong. He and his predecessors are horrible people who have done horrible things to their own citizens, and the current conflict is driven almost 100% by the Kim's nuclear program and aggressive behavior. He and his top people need to die, badly, for the sake of humanity.


Having said that, the likelihood of any military action turning most of the pennensula into bomb craters and all manner of other possible consequences argues that we should exercise restraint unless Kim does something entirely intolerable like hitting Guam or Japan, etc.

What's "fair" is considering all of South Korea, Japan, many small islands, and all the allied forces stationed in that area of the world.

After all that comes the North Korean citizens that are being held prisoner in their own land.

Then skip about 100 pages of levels of other people and animals on this planet, and you might get to some kind of concern about "fairness" towards Kim.
 
Actually it is not Trump who has pushed us on the brink of Nuclear war...its the appeasement policies of the past 40 years by both democrats and republican administrations that has lead us to this point.

It takes two to tango. Trump's erratic and boisterous language is taking us dangerously close to the brink of nuclear war. I don't even think Mike Pence would be that stupid.
 
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