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How important is the issue of partisan polarization to you?

How important is the issue of partisan polarization to you?

  • Yes, this is an issue we need to fix

    Votes: 25 67.6%
  • Yes, but there's not much we can do to fix it

    Votes: 9 24.3%
  • No; this is a non-issue

    Votes: 3 8.1%

  • Total voters
    37
What is gerrymandering? Please explain to me how it works.

Gerrymandering is the strategic drawing of political barriers so that even a party with a lower number of registered voters can still win. With simple mathematical planning, the party that controls these political lines can, in an extraordinary number of case, never be afraid of losing an election.
 
Look it up on wikipedia or any one of many different sites which can explain it to you.

I got paid good money for 33 years to teach people government. If you want a private tutor, PM me and we can work out a cost to you.

So you can't explain it, can you?
 
I'd like an honest answer on this from everyone here. There's no secret the American political climate has become more and more polarized the longer we've gone. Study after study continues to show a steady decline in bipartisanship in Congress as well as in the electorate. Cable news networks and many other online news sources that seem to be legitimate can very well work against us in continuing to confirm our biases and the more this happens, the less people are willing to compromise, reach across the aisle, and be open to ideas different from their own.

Furthermore, our political discourse doesn't help. Way too many times I read about the fascist/racist/evil right and the socialistic/oversensitive/evil left. I'm of the opinion that differing opinion is one of the basic fundamentals to our nation and any democratic state, and something we should seek considering a nation of over 300 million people are obviously going to have different opinions. Yet, we look at a different opinion in this country, especially as of late, as an evil idea.

Anyways, I think partisan polarization happens to be one of the largest issues our nation faces, if not THE largest. The more we continue to close ourselves to new and diverse ideas, the more we hinder our ability to improve things here and abroad.

So I'd like to know, do you agree with my premise? Do you think its an issue we need to be able to direct our resources towards fixing? Do you believe its an issue, but don't think there's much that can fix it? Or do you just find this to be a non-issue?

Unicameral government is the answer. The Bicameral Republic is irreparably broken, corrupt.
 
Gerrymandering is the strategic drawing of political barriers so that even a party with a lower number of registered voters can still win. With simple mathematical planning, the party that controls these political lines can, in an extraordinary number of case, never be afraid of losing an election.

Exactly! It's impossible to gerrymander unless you have been voted into power in the first place! The left likes to cry gerrymandering but they could not have been gerrymandered if voters had voted for them in the beginning, which they didn't. Voters wanted Republicans.
 
Exactly! It's impossible to gerrymander unless you have been voted into power in the first place! The left likes to cry gerrymandering but they could not have been gerrymandered if voters had voted for them in the beginning, which they didn't. Voters wanted Republicans.

Wait, are you saying that parties don't redraw political boundaries?
 
I'm want to disagree on your point about higher education indoctrinating people.
Rather, I want to say that it trains people to think critically, and thus they decided that certain ideas are wrong.
That would be a comforting tought, and your skepticism is to be expected but I would argue not very likely.

Although there is no doubt it is possible to changes ones political opinion once exposed to ideas out of ones comfort zone and even radically with critical thinking. I think we've all experienced that. The data simply does not support that is the new norm. It shows a massive democratic/progressive/socialist/Marxist bias in facility, priority and content way way above industry averages. In addition academic only subject such as sociology, women's study, English show it to such a degree it's out right taught as truth and hard to deny. Social work, journalism and education...following close behind. Look at some syllabus or streamed lectures if you doubt my claims.

Education professors are not the top of their fields. Educational individuals can often make multiples higher in the private sector. Staying in academics is a choice. Those who have chosen an educational career have their bias and unfortunately radicalizing and policizing students is looking like such a norm.

I have no doubt one could receive an education and never meet an indoctrination lecture...but it's becoming less and less common as shown by the data as it's self propagation and the strongest believer rarely can get a job outside the safe holds: media(more than news), teaching, academia and social work/activism.

I believe a liberal arts education can be a social good. I doubt that is what is generally being offered and hopefully that changes and with it I think some of the partisanship we see in society as a whole.
 
Wait, are you saying that parties don't redraw political boundaries?

I'm saying that I'm sick and tired of hearing the left whine about gerrymandering when the fact is, you can't gerrymander unless you were voted into power in the first place. Voters elected Republicans without any gerrymandering and now the left whines because they claim Republicans gerrymander.
 
$80 per hour.


$100 if you prove to be a bad student ... as I suspect would be the case.

Never mind. I have already proven my point with Cardinal. You were too chicken to even try debating me. Probably a good idea since I handed Cardninal his balls.
 
I'm saying that I'm sick and tired of hearing the left whine about gerrymandering when the fact is, you can't gerrymander unless you were voted into power in the first place. Voters elected Republicans without any gerrymandering and now the left whines because they claim Republicans gerrymander.

Which brings us back around to my question: are you saying gerrymandering (the redrawing of political districts) doesn't happen? Before we can progress to matters of whether gerrymandering works or whether someone is "whining," that question needs to be settled first.

Never mind. I have already proven my point with Cardinal. You were too chicken to even try debating me. Probably a good idea since I handed Cardninal his balls.

Danth's Law.
 
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Political polarization is driven by base human psychology - we enjoy confirmation of our biases, enjoy tribalism, and don't like cognitive dissonance.

As technology has enabled us to seek out what we like with lower and lower cost thresholds, we have therefore divided into like-groups (political tribes); we've divided geographically, we've divided culturally, we've divided informationally (in terms of what information we see, hear, etc.). This gives us the rewards of groupthink - we get to know that our side is intelligent and good while others are stupid and evil.

No one likes to think that you and those you respect can be stupid and evil, or that those who disagree with your core identifying beliefs can be doing so because they are wise and good. That takes intellectual humility, and the willingness to engage in some painful cognitive dissonance. There's no market for it.

Since there is no market for it, there are also precious few services for it. We reward those platforms which reinforce our bubbles, not those who pop them. The thicker our bubble, the more willing we are to countenance authoritarian abuses of those outside it (who are, after all, evil and stupid), and the more ensconced we are in the groupthink, the more the extremes get to drive the conversation.


I hold out little hope for a resolution for this. A return to Federalism would reduce the tension, hatred, and the stakes a lot, but one side is ideologically opposed to it, and the other see's it as a sort of unilateral disarmament in a zero sum competition.
 
I'm saying that I'm sick and tired of hearing the left whine about gerrymandering when the fact is, you can't gerrymander unless you were voted into power in the first place. Voters elected Republicans without any gerrymandering and now the left whines because they claim Republicans gerrymander.

Neither party should be allowed to gain such an advantage over the other. This isn't a left or right issue. Its a practice that severely diminishes the democratic process, whichever party partakes in it.

Then again, ending partisan gerrymandering isn't really going to fix the issue of polarization, in my opinion.
 
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Partisanship is a horrible problem and it really irks me because it is so closely related to hypocrisy.

I don't mind ideological differences. I welcome them. Which is better? Flat tax or progressive taxation? Reasonable people can disagree. But with partisans it is all about who is proposing the idea. It is about teams, not policy. Party before the People.

Maybe I am romanticizing the past, but I really feel like partisanship has gotten so much worse than it used to be. Perhaps cable "news" has exacerbated the problem.
 
I'm saying that I'm sick and tired of hearing the left whine about gerrymandering when the fact is, you can't gerrymander unless you were voted into power in the first place. Voters elected Republicans without any gerrymandering and now the left whines because they claim Republicans gerrymander.
If I recall a mini documentary I watched on this correctly, republicans won seats by virtue of massively outspending democrats in specific targeted areas, with the intent to gerrymander once they gained control of the state legislature.

Basically, they targeted their available funds and used the redrawing to lock things in place (more or less).

To me, that showed one of the key weaknesses in our system that needs fixed - partisan district drawing must end.
 
I'd like an honest answer on this from everyone here. There's no secret the American political climate has become more and more polarized the longer we've gone. Study after study continues to show a steady decline in bipartisanship in Congress as well as in the electorate. Cable news networks and many other online news sources that seem to be legitimate can very well work against us in continuing to confirm our biases and the more this happens, the less people are willing to compromise, reach across the aisle, and be open to ideas different from their own.

Furthermore, our political discourse doesn't help. Way too many times I read about the fascist/racist/evil right and the socialistic/oversensitive/evil left. I'm of the opinion that differing opinion is one of the basic fundamentals to our nation and any democratic state, and something we should seek considering a nation of over 300 million people are obviously going to have different opinions. Yet, we look at a different opinion in this country, especially as of late, as an evil idea.

Anyways, I think partisan polarization happens to be one of the largest issues our nation faces, if not THE largest. The more we continue to close ourselves to new and diverse ideas, the more we hinder our ability to improve things here and abroad.

So I'd like to know, do you agree with my premise? Do you think its an issue we need to be able to direct our resources towards fixing? Do you believe its an issue, but don't think there's much that can fix it? Or do you just find this to be a non-issue?

Part of the problem is that it takes far less cognitive effort to steadfastly hold onto your beliefs than it does to review them. Honestly saying, "hey, wait a minute, there seems to be a mismatch between how I feel on this topic and how it plays out in the real world," requires a much higher level of thought and understanding than just holding out and demonizing the other side.

Open online communication was supposed to have led to the former, but with so few structures in place to guide us there, it generally degrades into the latter.
 
Never mind. I have already proven my point with Cardinal. You were too chicken to even try debating me. Probably a good idea since I handed Cardninal his balls.

If you don't know what gerrymandering is and have to have the concept explained to you like an kid in Civics class - what then neck are you even doing attempting to debate the subject?
 
Partisanship in Washington largely just reflects partisanship among voters.
To a great degree, yes. The voter drives more, and has more power, than they realize.


I believe the rabid hyperpartisanship is the leading cause for the many problems facing the Republic.
In the end, regardless whose fault it is, I believe this is true.
 
I'd like an honest answer on this from everyone here. There's no secret the American political climate has become more and more polarized the longer we've gone. Study after study continues to show a steady decline in bipartisanship in Congress as well as in the electorate. Cable news networks and many other online news sources that seem to be legitimate can very well work against us in continuing to confirm our biases and the more this happens, the less people are willing to compromise, reach across the aisle, and be open to ideas different from their own.

Furthermore, our political discourse doesn't help. Way too many times I read about the fascist/racist/evil right and the socialistic/oversensitive/evil left. I'm of the opinion that differing opinion is one of the basic fundamentals to our nation and any democratic state, and something we should seek considering a nation of over 300 million people are obviously going to have different opinions. Yet, we look at a different opinion in this country, especially as of late, as an evil idea.

Anyways, I think partisan polarization happens to be one of the largest issues our nation faces, if not THE largest. The more we continue to close ourselves to new and diverse ideas, the more we hinder our ability to improve things here and abroad.

So I'd like to know, do you agree with my premise? Do you think its an issue we need to be able to direct our resources towards fixing? Do you believe its an issue, but don't think there's much that can fix it? Or do you just find this to be a non-issue?

The real problem is connected to the current election process. It is dominated by big money and mass media manipulation where $millions and even $billions will be spent. The result is the skills needed to get elected are not necessarily the same skills needed do the job once in office. An actor playing the role of statesman can be quite successful during the election process. However, they may lack the skills needed to direct and produce, once in office. So many good qualified people will not run, due to the nature of the election process. This is better suited to used car salesmen who will tell people what they want to hear and not what medicine needs to be taken to get well.

Much of the partisanship is a decoy to hide incompetence. If you act like a partisan, in front of your constituents, and nothing gets done, you can appear to be strong, while never allowing anyone to notice that the TV doctor does not know how to operate. The reason people elect the same morons again and again is because the actors help rigged the system, so this is the only choice.

Everyone in politics has something to say about the Russian collusion accusations, because this is where bull crap artists can rule and actors can play to the camera. But once important issues appear, it is better to pretend intelligence, by becoming a critic or sticking with the status quo, so you don't have to do anything that can betray incompetence.

Trump is different in that he has ingenuity and was able to play the actor game, better, with less resources. He is also skilled a management and is not afraid to take chances and put his skills to the test since he has competence. This makes the actors nervous, since they prefer bull crapping to actually having to do anything, that might make them look incompetent. The Russian probe allows the actors to play to the crowd. The citizens forget they are paying this morons to do nothing.
 
fairly important. it's my opinion that funneling all democratic choices into two well-gerrymandered, established, and powerful parties is ruining our system of government. at the very least, gerrymandering should be eliminated nationwide. i would consider going so far as to support the banning of political parties via constitutional amendment.
That was a great speech by great President. I dont agree with everything he said in that speech, but the part about factions is spot on. Not only spot on but an explanation of our present reality.

Im all for banning political parties from the government and from lobbying, but still allow them to exist as the Constitution protects our liberty to associate with whoever we please. Of course they would be more like a club rather than a political party. Im also of the mind that any influence that is to be done in our government should be done by voting during normal elections. Of course I also realize that this sets us up for shadow political parties. Much like religious organizations influence our government without actually being in it. It seems an unavoidable problem that our liberties and freedoms demands.
 
I'd like an honest answer on this from everyone here. There's no secret the American political climate has become more and more polarized the longer we've gone. Study after study continues to show a steady decline in bipartisanship in Congress as well as in the electorate. Cable news networks and many other online news sources that seem to be legitimate can very well work against us in continuing to confirm our biases and the more this happens, the less people are willing to compromise, reach across the aisle, and be open to ideas different from their own.

Furthermore, our political discourse doesn't help. Way too many times I read about the fascist/racist/evil right and the socialistic/oversensitive/evil left. I'm of the opinion that differing opinion is one of the basic fundamentals to our nation and any democratic state, and something we should seek considering a nation of over 300 million people are obviously going to have different opinions. Yet, we look at a different opinion in this country, especially as of late, as an evil idea.

Anyways, I think partisan polarization happens to be one of the largest issues our nation faces, if not THE largest. The more we continue to close ourselves to new and diverse ideas, the more we hinder our ability to improve things here and abroad.

So I'd like to know, do you agree with my premise? Do you think its an issue we need to be able to direct our resources towards fixing? Do you believe its an issue, but don't think there's much that can fix it? Or do you just find this to be a non-issue?

Sure it's an issue. But, what to do about it? Probably not much but let it run its course.
 
Partisanship in Washington largely just reflects partisanship among voters.

Certainly to some degree this is true. But it is sort of a chicken and the egg sort of thing. Why are people so hyperpartisan these days? I do believe that part of it stems from the systematic shutdown of proper political competition. That being that the Republicans and Democrats had worked rather hard to ensure that they are the ones to remain in power, they go so far as to put outlandish restrictions on debates to prevent other parties from challenging. Fundraising and access restrictions further prevent anything other than the established parties from getting much coverage and exposure. The press, our news-entertainment, does its best to ignore anyone but the main party candidates. And Donald Trump withstanding, the Republocrats police their own “popular” candidates such that Party Supporters are the only ones that get through (that being said, I don’t think Trump is much different from the Establishment in general. More publicly embarrassing and loud-mouthed, but he’s really just the other side of the Corporate-State coin).

So, what we end up with is a situation where people cannot really get a candidate they want through the process, and there’s very little ways through which the status quo can be successfully challenged. The result is that about half of the voters gave up trying, they don’t even vote. The majority of the rest have been sucked into this thinking that you have to support the Republocrat party or you’re throwing your vote away. So even if there may be a third-party candidate they like better, they won’t vote for them because they feel they have to vote a lesser of two evils or throw away their vote. A very small number of people are ideological enough that they won’t buy into that process and believe that the only way to evoke change is to threaten the power base of the ruling Party. Despite knowing that the votes are not aggregated nearly enough, they still add theirs to the small pile to make the point that they won’t disengage from the system and they won’t support the Status Quo.

But for the rest, much of the time they are left with a lesser-of-two-evils decision. You hear this sort of argument all the time now, and I don’t believe this is how it used to be. I think in the past people could talk about the positives of their candidates and the candidates’ ideology and political platform. Now it’s more and more “well the other side is worse” sort of thing. So, people buy into the “throw your vote away” excuse and then are forced into supporting a candidate they don’t really support, but don’t really support slightly less than the other guy. What is left at this point? It becomes an us-vs-them mentality. Intelligent discourse breaks down and it becomes a partisan, poo-throwing event. The other side is the problem, they are the ones causing everything that is wrong, they are the ones who are at fault for all the negative things right now, they are wrong, they are "evil". My side is the right side, my side is the good side, my side is at least trying to do something positive and promote a better tomorrow.

And the more and more we engage in it, the more and more ingrained and vitriol it becomes. People are now mad at the otherside, can’t stand the other side, resort to slogans and banal platitudes to easier dismiss anything they are saying. The People get caught in the ant-death-spiral, and we get more and more partisan, more and more angry at the otherside, but we still reward the system that has created this all by voting for it. And this blind allegiance culminates in Clinton v. Trump. There could not have been a ****tier choice than CvT. And we still voted for them, because we had to support one because the other side is so much worse. It’s the ant-death-spiral.
 
Get rid of gerrymandering and make districts far more competititve and a great deal of your problem is solved many districts will go back to the middle instead of on the extremes and safe as they are now.

Not necessarily. The Senate is just as polarized as the House of Representatives and there is no gerrymandering to speak of there.
 
That was a great speech by great President. I dont agree with everything he said in that speech, but the part about factions is spot on. Not only spot on but an explanation of our present reality.

Im all for banning political parties from the government and from lobbying, but still allow them to exist as the Constitution protects our liberty to associate with whoever we please. Of course they would be more like a club rather than a political party. Im also of the mind that any influence that is to be done in our government should be done by voting during normal elections. Of course I also realize that this sets us up for shadow political parties. Much like religious organizations influence our government without actually being in it. It seems an unavoidable problem that our liberties and freedoms demands.

I agree that the two-party system should be done away with, but the issue has always been how?
 
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I agree that the two-party system (& political parties in general) should be done away with, but the issue has always been how?
Are you thinking no parties at all, or a multi-party system?

No parties at all is not a realistic expectation, IMO. People naturally gravitate to other like-minded people. If they don't form parties in public view, they'd for parties in secret, and that'd be far worse.
 
Are you thinking no parties at all, or a multi-party system?

No parties at all is not a realistic expectation, IMO. People naturally gravitate to other like-minded people. If they don't form parties in public view, they'd for parties in secret, and that'd be far worse.

Multi-party system; I worded that post wrong. Campaign finance reform needs to be a top priority as well as allowing other parties to form on a more level-playing field. Of course, that is a hellavu lot to get done, and it doesn't seem realistic any time soon.
 
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