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Can a President pardon them self?

Can a President pardon them self?

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It really isn't. The list of anonymous sources who'd be privy to this type of conversation would be minuscule, so if all this leaking is not done purposefully it shouldn't be too hard to out the culprit. If anyone actually cared about getting down to the bottom of it.

I'm rather bored of speculation being passed off as news. Rarely are the speculators correct, but it's not about being correct so much as it is about the number of clicks.
 
ChezC3 said:
It really isn't. The list of anonymous sources who'd be privy to this type of conversation would be minuscule, so if all this leaking is not done purposefully it shouldn't be too hard to out the culprit. If anyone actually cared about getting down to the bottom of it.

I'm rather bored of speculation being passed off as news. Rarely are the speculators correct, but it's not about being correct so much as it is about the number of clicks.
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That's all great. And irrelevant. The question is "Can a President pardon them self?" Any sitting President. It was worded generically precisely for that reason. The link is just to give context.
 
ChezC3 said:
It really isn't. The list of anonymous sources who'd be privy to this type of conversation would be minuscule, so if all this leaking is not done purposefully it shouldn't be too hard to out the culprit. If anyone actually cared about getting down to the bottom of it.

I'm rather bored of speculation being passed off as news. Rarely are the speculators correct, but it's not about being correct so much as it is about the number of clicks.
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Agreed! All the stories have proven to have no merit at all!
 
radcen said:
Can a President pardon them self?

Interesting thought. :think:
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I can just hear Richard Nixon kicking himself in his grave for not coming up with this idea.
 
Moderate Right said:
I can just hear Richard Nixon kicking himself in his grave for not coming up with this idea.
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I bet he thought about it.

One thing I read earlier today suggested he did, but feared a huge backlash.

Then there's the theory that Ford made a deal to get the Presidency, but I'm skeptical of that one.
 
radcen said:
That's all great. And irrelevant. The question is "Can a President pardon them self?" Any sitting President. It was worded generically precisely for that reason. The link is just to give context.
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I'm sorry, I didn't mean to go caca on your thread out the gate, it's just the whole thing is so painfully boring. (Not your fault, you're just making conversation...)

Can a President pardon themselves?

Yes

but maybe

No

Either/or.

there I've covered both sides.

:)
 
Theoretically, *IF* a President could pardon them self... what would stop them from doing all kind of illegal stuff and constantly pardoning them self?

They wouldn't got to jail, they're pardoned.

Most Presidents don't run for any office afterward, so if it were done in a second term there's no fear of losing the next election.
 
I can see Trump trying it. I think it would take a Supreme Court ruling, but who would have standing in such a case?
 
Can a sitting a President pardon his own son, of course he will.
 
Moderate Right said:
I can just hear Richard Nixon kicking himself in his grave for not coming up with this idea.
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1) Pardoning yourself does not exempt you from impeachment
2) Nixon resigned rather than face almost certain removal from office via impeachment
3) Nixon was pardoned.

Even if Trump* decided to pardon himself (which is doubtful he could do) the consequence that would be an admission of a commission of a federal crime. After this admission of being guilty of a federal crime, he would still be subject to impeachment. Nothing worse at an impeachment trial than to have that kind of admission on the record. Hence, there is no point in pardoning yourself.
 
radcen said:
That's all great. And irrelevant. The question is "Can a President pardon them self?" Any sitting President. It was worded generically precisely for that reason. The link is just to give context.
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I would say he can do it as long as he the current potus

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
 
radcen said:
Theoretically, *IF* a President could pardon them self... what would stop them from doing all kind of illegal stuff and constantly pardoning them self?

They wouldn't got to jail, they're pardoned.

Most Presidents don't run for any office afterward, so if it were done in a second term there's no fear of losing the next election.
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Impeachment

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
 
radcen said:
Can a President pardon them self?

Interesting thought. :think:
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That would be the quintessential Münchhausen Trick.
 
radcen said:
Can a President pardon them self?

Interesting thought. :think:
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Apparently he can unless impeached. Constitution Article II, Section 2 ("he shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment") doesn't exempt POTUS from pardoning himself. But would that be a catch-22?

Yet federal obstruction statutes say that a person commits a crime when he “corruptly” impedes a court or agency proceeding. If it could be shown that President Trump pardoned his family members and close aides to cover up possible crimes, then that could be seen as acting “corruptly” and he could be charged with obstruction of justice. If, as some commentators believe, a sitting president cannot be indicted, Mr. Trump could still face prosecution after he leaves the White House.
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https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/21/opinion/if-trump-pardons-crime-russia.html?mcubz=2

While that deals with pardoning others, presumably the principle also would apply to Trump pardoning himself.
 
In ordered to be pardoned, you need to be convicted of a crime. In order for the President to be convicted, he needs to impeached. If the POTUS is impeached, then he will no longer be President. Since he is no longer President, he can no longer pardon anyone. Unless of course I misunderstand the laws regarding pardons and the POTUS can pardon people who are still under investigation or on trial.
 
Moderate Right said:
I can just hear Richard Nixon kicking himself in his grave for not coming up with this idea.
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Nixon had a minuscule amount of shame and decency in him which prevented him from doing it. Our current president has not a trace of either of those qualities.
 
CMPancake said:
In ordered to be pardoned, you need to be convicted of a crime. In order for the President to be convicted, he needs to impeached. If the POTUS is impeached, then he will no longer be President. Since he is no longer President, he can no longer pardon anyone. Unless of course I misunderstand the laws regarding pardons and the POTUS can pardon people who are still under investigation or on trial.
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For pardoned Nixon despite Nixon not being indicted.
 
CMPancake said:
In ordered to be pardoned, you need to be convicted of a crime. In order for the President to be convicted, he needs to impeached. If the POTUS is impeached, then he will no longer be President. Since he is no longer President, he can no longer pardon anyone. Unless of course I misunderstand the laws regarding pardons and the POTUS can pardon people who are still under investigation or on trial.
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Well, if the NY Times is correct, he doesn't have to be convicted:

Consistent with the framers’ design, the Supreme Court has interpreted the president’s pardon power broadly. The president can pardon anyone for any crime at any time — even before a suspect has been charged. Congress cannot withdraw presidential pardons, and prosecutors and courts cannot ignore them.
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https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/21/opinion/if-trump-pardons-crime-russia.html?mcubz=2
 
CMPancake said:
In ordered to be pardoned, you need to be convicted of a crime. In order for the President to be convicted, he needs to impeached. If the POTUS is impeached, then he will no longer be President. Since he is no longer President, he can no longer pardon anyone. Unless of course I misunderstand the laws regarding pardons and the POTUS can pardon people who are still under investigation or on trial.
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You don't need to be convicted of a crime to be pardoned. You can be pardoned during the investigation.

https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/explaining-president-obamas-outgoing-pardon-powers

Nixon was pardoned without ever being charged with a crime. When that happens, its referred to has a preemptive pardon.

The acceptance of a pardon can be considered admission of guilt.

http://scholarship.law.upenn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=9065&context=penn_law_review

Speaking of "admission of guilt", why are we talking about this? Is someone guilty of something?
 
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upsideguy said:
1) Pardoning yourself does not exempt you from impeachment
2) Nixon resigned rather than face almost certain removal from office via impeachment
3) Nixon was pardoned.

Even if Trump* decided to pardon himself (which is doubtful he could do) the consequence that would be an admission of a commission of a federal crime. After this admission of being guilty of a federal crime, he would still be subject to impeachment. Nothing worse at an impeachment trial than to have that kind of admission on the record. Hence, there is no point in pardoning yourself.
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Trump admitting he did something wrong? Than pardons are out of the question
 
azgreg said:
Interesting piece I read on it earlier today.

Can Trump Pardon Himself? | Foreign Policy
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I agree with that analysis, but it's got no real precedent.

Trump cares nothing about the law or precedent, so it may ultimately fall to the SCOTUS. Watch for them to pull a Bush v. Gore "this cannot be used as precedent".

How the HELL did we get here???:shock:
 
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