Repeal and Replace

Now that it seems the Republicans do not have the votes to pass Trumpcare in the Senate. This poll asks if the board thinks that the GOP have the necessary votes to Repeal only?

I say sit on it. The attitude of the public has either changed, or the legislators are putting politics over people. Either the polling is inaccurate, or non-subsidized people have accepted funding medical care for everyone else even though they can't afford to use it themselves.

Beats the hell out of me!

There is unpleasant truth: some of the original funding was illegally created. I have no idea how that will play out. I presume levies on taxpayers will go up. That will be fun.

One solution is to hold the federal poverty level where it is and let inflation solve the funding level over time.

Rexedgar said:

Now that it seems the Republicans do not have the votes to pass Trumpcare in the Senate. This poll asks if the board thinks that the GOP have the necessary votes to Repeal only?

Click to expand...

No

The moderate republicans and democrats in the senate add up to at least 51 votes.

But not doing anything still dooms obamacare to a slow and painful death because it was designed to fail anyway

We need to keep our eye on the ball and not the distraction. When ObamaCare was instituted we had a free market system that could cover 80% of the population. There was a strong foundation, that only needed the Government to deal with the other 20%. Instead of just dealing with the 20%, the Democrats messed up the solid 80% foundation by turning a free market foundation into crony capitalism led by big government guarantees, rules and taxes. This caused prices to rise with the system ready to go belly up.

Trump and the Republicans inherited a ghettoed money pit with a poor foundation. It is one thing to build on a sound foundation and another to build on a condemned building with rotten footings. The Republicans need to overhaul he system to get just to get to where Obama started. In the short term, this will cause problems, but is necessary for the long term health of the system.

In building, if you need to jack up the house to replace the sill, this can form cracks in the walls. If you do nothing, the cracks may not appear, right away, but the house will soon sag. With a fake news media,it is easy to do nothing than the right thing, since they will try to spook the herd even for necessary changes. The Republicans are having to weight the political consequences of doing he right thing knowing the Democrats will try to scam the public with misinformation, The Democrats control fake news and have an extensive ignorant base who have been made addicted with freebies. It is technically easy but politically complicated. This is why some Senators complain the solution is Obama Care lite. This is to appease the ignorance while jacking the house up slowly so the ghetto system does not crack too much allowing propaganda to reign. Others want to come in with the crane and do it right and on time. They will deal with the propaganda as it happens knowing the longer term will be bright for the Republicans. This could put the last nail the radical Democrat coffin, requiring they overhaul the party of liars and scammers.

Repealing the law without a firm replacement would be grossly irresponsible and a huge boon to the Democrats who could exploit such an irresponsible and reckless move. It also would only emphasize that they were impotent to do what they said they would do for year after year after year after year.

Rexedgar said:

Now that it seems the Republicans do not have the votes to pass Trumpcare in the Senate. This poll asks if the board thinks that the GOP have the necessary votes to Repeal only?

Click to expand...

Recall that this was the original house plan and it was so unpopular, they abandoned it.

And now that I think about it...since it's not reconciliation, don't they need 60 votes in the Senate to avoid a filibuster?

Rexedgar said:

Now that it seems the Republicans do not have the votes to pass Trumpcare in the Senate. This poll asks if the board thinks that the GOP have the necessary votes to Repeal only?

Click to expand...

It's impossible to know what the hell the GOP has or will do right now. My guess is they rather do nothing, but they may get too much pressure from their supporters and the WH to do something.

Threegoofs said:

Recall that this was the original house plan and it was so unpopular, they abandoned it.

Click to expand...

True, but they could call the voter's bluff and say "Go ahead, do something about it" and vote to repeal it. Given the fact the false god, Cheeto Jesus was elected they may just count on people's stupidity and apathy.

I just think it's funny that the GOP has bragged for years they could come up with a better plan and it's smacked them right back in their faces that they can't.

Praxas said:

True, but they could call the voter's bluff and say "Go ahead, do something about it" and vote to repeal it. Given the fact the false god, Cheeto Jesus was elected they may just count on people's stupidity and apathy.

I just think it's funny that the GOP has bragged for years they could come up with a better plan and it's smacked them right back in their faces that they can't.

Click to expand...

It has to do with fake news and a Democratic base who believes it. Obama Care started with a solid system that already insured 80% using the free market. Trump inherited a money pit that has a rotten foundation and is about to collapse. The old system was not ready to collapse. All it needed was another floor.

ObamaCare will take a major overhaul just to get to the pre-ObamaCare foundation. If you bought a money pit home and needed to rehab it, the complexity of many tasks means it may not be livable for a few months or if so it will be dusty and dirty. This is the political hazard since this can be spun into that which it is not. The Republicans are too nice and honest to just let ObamaCare collapse and then point the finger. This means people/s lives. The Democrats would do this in a heart beat if the shoe was on the other foot, and if it got them political mileage.

The stalling of the Democrats has to do with incompetence. They control fake news and have spend lots of campaign money promoting actors who play the role of statesmen. They specialize in negative adds which means, I suck less than the other guy. They and the media have created an an illusion of competence in their leader template, as reflected in ObamaCare.

The current situation is like having the TV doctor perform brain surgery for real. The best path the Democratic actors can take, to maintain credibility and power, is to stall and blame others, so he never has to enter the operating room. The entire party is doing this because very few in any have the skill needs to lead and make America Great again.

wellwisher said:

It has to do with fake news and a Democratic base who believes it. Obama Care started with a solid system that already insured 80% using the free market. Trump inherited a money pit that has a rotten foundation and is about to collapse. The old system was not ready to collapse. All it needed was another floor.

ObamaCare will take a major overhaul just to get to the pre-ObamaCare foundation. If you bought a money pit home and needed to rehab it, the complexity of many tasks means it may not be livable for a few months or if so it will be dusty and dirty. This is the political hazard since this can be spun into that which it is not. The Republicans are too nice and honest to just let ObamaCare collapse and then point the finger. This means people/s lives. The Democrats would do this in a heart beat if the shoe was on the other foot, and if it got them political mileage.

The stalling of the Democrats has to do with incompetence. They control fake news and have spend lots of campaign money promoting actors who play the role of statesmen. They specialize in negative adds which means, I suck less than the other guy. They and the media have created an an illusion of competence in their leader template, as reflected in ObamaCare.

The current situation is like having the TV doctor perform brain surgery for real. The best path the Democratic actors can take, to maintain credibility and power, is to stall and blame others, so he never has to enter the operating room. The entire party is doing this because very few in any have the skill needs to lead and make America Great again.

Click to expand...

There is no stall by the Dems, the Republicans hold the majority in both houses of congress and the presidency. Both Trump and the Republican congress has said they can come up with a BETTER plan. They haven't. You trying to blame the Dems on the GOP not being able to come up with a plan is quite funny when THEY are the ones who have claimed they could.

Rexedgar said:

Now that it seems the Republicans do not have the votes to pass Trumpcare in the Senate. This poll asks if the board thinks that the GOP have the necessary votes to Repeal only?

Click to expand...

Wouldn't straight repeal require 60 votes in the Senate?

Threegoofs said:

Wouldn't straight repeal require 60 votes in the Senate?

Click to expand...

Yes, which leads to the single burning question we're all thinking: just how bad does McConnell want to repeal the ACA before November 2018? Does he want it as much as he wanted to confirm Gorsuch?

A full six Republican senators that I'm aware of have spoken out against repeal without a replacement.

I found this on Twitter:

Cardinal said:

Yes, which leads to the single burning question we're all thinking: just how bad does McConnell want to repeal the ACA before November 2018? Does he want it as much as he wanted to confirm Gorsuch?

A full six Republican senators that I'm aware of have spoken out against repeal without a replacement.

I found this on Twitter:

View attachment 67220215

Click to expand...

Yeah - just saw Portman is against it too.

Looks like their alternative plan is dead in the water just 24 hours after they came up with the idea!

These guys are experts at getting elected, and clowns at actually doing their job.

The first thing I said when I saw this was: Now they're going to just repeal it, and figure out the replacement "later" - it's an option that I personally hate. But I think they'll have enough votes to do it. Every side, moderates to extreme conservatives, will believe they will have a better shot of getting through their agenda if we have nothing to fall back on.

They'll do it carefully, with an extension of the ACA for a few years to get those last few votes they need, but they will vote to repeal it IMO.

Threegoofs said:

Yeah - just saw Portman is against it too.

Looks like their alternative plan is dead in the water just 24 hours after they came up with the idea!

These guys are experts at getting elected, and clowns at actually doing their job.

Click to expand...

All I know is I'm living in Groundhog Day. Every single day brings another inexplicably cruel healthcare bill while we hang on for that third Republican to finally say he'll vote against it. Then McConnell has an even worse idea, and around and around we go.

Praxas said:

There is no stall by the Dems, the Republicans hold the majority in both houses of congress and the presidency. Both Trump and the Republican congress has said they can come up with a BETTER plan. They haven't. You trying to blame the Dems on the GOP not being able to come up with a plan is quite funny when THEY are the ones who have claimed they could.

Click to expand...

GOP has not asked for any input by the dems but says they are obstructing - dems don't have the numbers to obstruct - another GOP lie.

@JerryMoran: “I support the President’s efforts to repeal Obamacare, and I will vote in favor of the motion to proceed."

Sweet. So now instead of 22 million people losing their insurance, 32 million will lose it instead. And now we'll have to wait for days for a third Republican to come around to the idea that maybe that's a bad thing.

wellwisher said:

We need to keep our eye on the ball and not the distraction. When ObamaCare was instituted we had a free market system that could cover 80% of the population. There was a strong foundation, that only needed the Government to deal with the other 20%. Instead of just dealing with the 20%, the Democrats messed up the solid 80% foundation by turning a free market foundation into crony capitalism led by big government guarantees, rules and taxes. This caused prices to rise with the system ready to go belly up.

Click to expand...

There is nothing "free market" about the system. Employers get tax breaks for providing insurance, and insurance companies get a cute antitrust exemption.

Then there are market distortions like this one:
Taibbi on Republicans and Democrats Blocking Drug Reimportation - Rolling Stone

Cardinal said:

@JerryMoran: “I support the President’s efforts to repeal Obamacare, and I will vote in favor of the motion to proceed."

Sweet. So now instead of 22 million people losing their insurance, 32 million will lose it instead. And now we'll have to wait for days for a third Republican to come around to the idea that maybe that's a bad thing.

Click to expand...

Are you assuming that they don't intend to then replace it with something? I can't imagine them getting the votes for a repeal only, with the plan of zero replacement.

fredmertzz said:

Are you assuming that they don't intend to then replace it with something? I can't imagine them getting the votes for a repeal only, with the plan of zero replacement.

Click to expand...

If they repeal the ACA, that's it for healthcare reform until the next filibuster-proof Democrat majority is back in power. As for whether or not they'll get the votes, we're back to where we were yesterday: waiting for a third Republican to declare their no vote.

Cardinal said:

@JerryMoran: “I support the President’s efforts to repeal Obamacare, and I will vote in favor of the motion to proceed."

Sweet. So now instead of 22 million people losing their insurance, 32 million will lose it instead. And now we'll have to wait for days for a third Republican to come around to the idea that maybe that's a bad thing.

Click to expand...

Theyve got three against already - Collins Capito and Portman.

But I dont think it matters, because they need 60 anyway.

The idea is dead in the water, much like the GOP ideology.

Threegoofs said:

Theyve got three against already - Collins Capito and Portman.

But I dont think it matters, because they need 60 anyway.

The idea is dead in the water, much like the GOP ideology.

Click to expand...

They went (or will, don't remember off the top of my head) nuclear and changed the rules so they only need 51.

chuckiechan said:

I say sit on it. The attitude of the public has either changed, or the legislators are putting politics over people. Either the polling is inaccurate, or non-subsidized people have accepted funding medical care for everyone else even though they can't afford to use it themselves.

Beats the hell out of me!

There is unpleasant truth: some of the original funding was illegally created. I have no idea how that will play out. I presume levies on taxpayers will go up. That will be fun.

One solution is to hold the federal poverty level where it is and let inflation solve the funding level over time.

Click to expand...

To the bolded:

The GOP's action today is now locked into a mad search for a political solution to their political problem! This is no longer about policy. Not even close! And the same goes for Trump and his actions.

Chomsky said:

To the bolded:

The GOP's action today is now locked into a mad search for a political solution to their political problem! This is no longer about policy. Not even close! And the same goes for Trump and his actions.

Click to expand...

It's not the GOP. Obamacare is as they left it. They can only be blamed for keeping it, which according to the MSM people have had a change of heart and want to keep it.

Inflation will gradually pull people off the subsidies, and they can start paying for what they are buying.

You cannot throw out the current system if you have nothing to replace it with. But that's the problem with the GOP plan, they really don't have anything better, they just want to get Obamacare out. They have to come up with something superior but they're not really trying. That's a problem.