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What is your opinion on the Iran nuclear deal and why?

What is your opinion on the Iran nuclear deal?


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President Donald Trump is on the verge of renewing the American certification of the Iran nuclear deal for the second time since he took office, despite declarations as a candidate it is a disastrous and dangerous agreement. While not an endorsement of the deal, it is an admittance that Iran is thus far complying with the terms of the agreement, which were finalized in the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action.

How do you feel about this deal, and why?

I voted before reading your actual post. I think the original deal was a mistake because international sanctions were working. The deal allows Iran to have nuclear weapons after 10 years whereas if we had continued with the international sanctions and not done the deal, we could have eventually gotten a deal where Iran agreed to never have nuclear weapons. Since Obama did that stupid deal then we can't go back and reinstate the international sanctions now and that is what Iran was counting on in the first place.
 
President Donald Trump is on the verge of renewing the American certification of the Iran nuclear deal for the second time since he took office, despite declarations as a candidate it is a disastrous and dangerous agreement. While not an endorsement of the deal, it is an admittance that Iran is thus far complying with the terms of the agreement, which were finalized in the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action.

How do you feel about this deal, and why?

I approve of the deal, but I don't like working with Iran. But as they say on a certain TV show, "You can only make peace your enemies, that's why it's called 'making peace.'"
 
While not an endorsement of the deal, it is an admittance that Iran is thus far complying with the terms of the agreement, which were finalized in the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action.

How do you feel about this deal, and why?

It is a good deal. There's no harm in it, it's all upside. If Iran chooses not to comply we can always re-instate sanctions, military action is always on the table in the worst case scenario. This deal gives Iran the ability to earn back the trust of the west and prove it's willing to work towards a diplomatic solution to our problems.

That's the nice thing about diplomacy is that if you use it to the full extent first you can always fall back on sanctions or military solutions, and what's more the fact that those options are available to you improve your negotiating stance. However if you try military solutions first, then it becomes very difficult to fall back to diplomacy if it doesn't work the way you'd hoped. Furthermore if you try and go back to diplomacy you don't realistically have the threat of military solutions to use because they already know the results of them.

Republicans hate the deal because they are war mongers. They want war, particularly with Muslim countries. There are large swaths of the Republican party that would love nothing more than to drop Nuke's on most of the Middle east. A Muslim Holocaust is actually a great idea in the minds of too many American Conservatives. This deal however proves that the evil boogie men that Republicans have been trying to convince you control Iran are radically overblown if they exist at all.

The reality is that Iran has as much reason if not more reason not to trust us as we do for not trusting them. The whole Iranian Revolution was largely the fault of a very very bad miscalculation on the part of American warmongers of the past, and this deal is more evidence of it.
 
I voted before reading your actual post. I think the original deal was a mistake because international sanctions were working. The deal allows Iran to have nuclear weapons after 10 years

That's a load of garbage.
 
It was certainly better than doing nothing. Had America sat idly by, Iran would have likely developed its first warhead by now. And that would of course start an arms race between the Arab League, Iran, and Israel. During the cold war, both the US and the Soviet Union knew that nuclear war was more trouble than it was worth. However, when conflict is motivated by religious beliefs then you likely believe that dying for the right cause will guarantee entrance into heaven/paradise. This is especially true for terrorists who could potentially gain a hold of such nukes. So while Nato and the Soviet Union never went to war, the middle east might not be so likely.

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However with that said, there could have been additional measures to ensure that Iran doesn't evade inspections.
 
There seems to be conflicting evidence if Iran is meeting the requirements. The UN and the Trump administration say they are. former UN Ambassador Bolton as well as several Senators on the foreign relations and armed services committees say they aren't. I think this needs a further look.

What a surprise, Bolton is opposed!
 
How so, exactly?

Without any possibility of outside intervention, the theocratic dictatorship would be free to treat its populace in any manner whatsoever. It could lock things down, no info out and no info in. It could starve minority and disliked populations. It could ignore any semblance of labor, civil or environmental rights. It could pour its money into proxy wars to the detriment of the population at a scale unseen in modern history.

Currently, the only thing preventing the theocracy from going whole-hog is the threat of invasion and regime change.

I oppose Iran getting nukes not because nukes might be used on someone. I oppose Iran getting nukes because of what that will do to the population. Iranians deserve a better government, not generations of darkness.
 
Without any possibility of outside intervention, the theocratic dictatorship would be free to treat its populace in any manner whatsoever. It could lock things down, no info out and no info in. It could starve minority and disliked populations. It could ignore any semblance of labor, civil or environmental rights. It could pour its money into proxy wars to the detriment of the population at a scale unseen in modern history.

Currently, the only thing preventing the theocracy from going whole-hog is the threat of invasion and regime change.

I oppose Iran getting nukes not because nukes might be used on someone. I oppose Iran getting nukes because of what that will do to the population. Iranians deserve a better government, not generations of darkness.

And your view of what they need is something they want? You know, one of the problems with your position is that you assume your morals is their morals and what they want out of government is what you want out of government. You should stop doing that. Oh, and it's called state sovereignty, which kind of bars everything you just said from being acted on by outside countries.
 
And your view of what they need is something they want? You know, one of the problems with your position is that you assume your morals is their morals and what they want out of government is what you want out of government. You should stop doing that. Oh, and it's called state sovereignty, which kind of bars everything you just said from being acted on by outside countries.

You need to stop presuming tyranny represents the will of the people, dictatorships are not that. Iran is not a sovereign nation, it's a sovereign regime.
 
You need to stop presuming tyranny represents the will of the people. Iran is not a sovereign nation, it's a sovereign regime.

That's some cute word choice there. A regime is a government in a nation. Oh and no, you don't know what they want nor do you care. You have your morals that you think the world should follow and advocate invading any country that does not follow them.

The difference between colonization and what you advocate is that under your view other countries get to exist but have to follows your rules, while in colonization people don't get to have their own nation and have to follow the views of people from another land. In the end the difference is rather unimportant.
 
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That's some cute word choice there. A regime is a government in a nation. Oh and no, you don't know what they want nor do you care. You have your morals that you think the world should follow and advocate invading any country that does not follow them.

The difference between colonization and what you advocate is that under your view other countries get to exist but have to follows your rules, while in colonization people don't get to have their own nation and have to follow the views of people from another land. In the end the difference is rather unimportant.

For a nation to be sovereign, it must be free. After all, sovereignty is the ability to shape ones future. People living under tyranny have no such ability. A regime is not a nation. A nation is a people. For a people (a nation) to be sovereign, they must have a voice in their authority.

Liberation is not colonialism.
 
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For a nation to be sovereign, it must be free. After all, sovereignty is the ability to shape ones future. People living under tyranny have no such ability. A regime is not a nation. A nation is a people. For a people (a nation) to be sovereign, they must have a voice in their authority.

Liberation is not colonialism.

You really shouldn't try making up definitions on the spot. A nations sovereignty is not dependent on the freedom of its people and a regime is a government of a nation.
 
You really shouldn't try making up definitions on the spot. A nations sovereignty is not dependent on the freedom of its people and a regime is a government of a nation.

A regime is not a nation.
 
What a surprise, Bolton is opposed!

Bolton opposes every international agreement.
I'm not saying he's a war monger, but military action is pretty high up on his list of preferences.
He's better than Frank Gaffney, though.
 
It's possible. More likely they become more aggressive, knowing they can't be countered.

Why is the GOP house holding up the sanctions bill on Russia and Iran ?
 
I was for it under Obama, and still support it under Trump.

It get inspectors in the door for monitoring.

But I support it only if they reasonably keep their terms. Otherwise, the sanctions seem to be pretty much crushing them. Well, except for Putin blatantly sidestepping them.

trump was against it before he was for it, his normal MO. The GOPutin party will now support trump, opposite from the Sen. Cotton letter .
 
Without any possibility of outside intervention, the theocratic dictatorship would be free to treat its populace in any manner whatsoever. It could lock things down, no info out and no info in. It could starve minority and disliked populations. It could ignore any semblance of labor, civil or environmental rights. It could pour its money into proxy wars to the detriment of the population at a scale unseen in modern history.

I'm not saying Iran isn't capable of doing these things, but I have to question: why?

Yes Iran has ethnic tensions, but none of them have thus far demonstrated the level of intensity to warrant the kind of existential crisis that would seriously undermine the Iranian state. The Azerbaijanis, the largest minority group, are largely Shia Muslim and contribute regularly to the IRRGC and the Iranian military. They are not entirely happy but against a foreign aggressor it's hard to see them really splitting with the rest of Iran.

And while I do a view Iranian acquisition of a nuclear weapon as a very bad thing for the region and a threshold for potential action against Iran, I don't think it's relatively speaking the definitive point of no return. Iran is already a nightmare to invade; it's a large, mountainous country with a sizeable population, and as already mentioned it has no where near the level of ethnic instability that Iraq possessed, which was only held in through Saddam's iron grip and military dictatorship.

The Iranian Government it relatively popular, and it's population has demonstrated thus far a general commitment to it. Iranian people are not horribly oppressed; they can partake in democratic elections, have access to Western television, and can organize protests on Twitter. While not wholly popular I think it's a stretch to assume that it would crumble under a foreign invasion.

Iran is also a state that has since inception, been preparing itself for just such an invasion, by preparing in depth defenses beyond just conventional capabilities. It's the exact kind of irregular, asymmetrical situation that is the nightmare that makes Afghanistan or Iraq look like a cakewalk. It's more akin to Vietnam than anything. The US and it's allies are surely aware of this.

Currently, the only thing preventing the theocracy from going whole-hog is the threat of invasion and regime change.

I oppose Iran getting nukes not because nukes might be used on someone. I oppose Iran getting nukes because of what that will do to the population. Iranians deserve a better government, not generations of darkness.

I do not want Iran to get a nuke nor do I approve of the Iranian government, however I think we must also accept the reality that the strategic situation has changed. Iran is not the isolated, hated-by-everyone theocracy of the Cold War. Iran has demonstrated itself to be a fairly rational actor relative to it's neighbors, certainly more so than Pakistan or Saudi Arabia. It's increasing ties to Russia and China have shown that Iran is growing more and more influential and less isolated, even more so following Russia's reintroduction to the Middle East.

I do not believe, given Iran's increasing international ties, that it can be assured that sanctions alone will stop Iran's nuclear ambitions. And given that the only way to stop such a thing otherwise would be an extremely costly invasion, I cannot help but endorse this deal. I do not like Iran nor do I like it's government. But I do not believe our commitment to Iranian isolation and subversion will yield good results. Therefore I think taking steps towards normalization of relations is the best bet for securing a peaceful future.
 
That's a load of garbage.

Not a load of garbage. Iran can make nuclear weapons in 10 years if it wants and the world reserves the right to slap sanctions back on them if they do it. Iran knows that it took an act of God to get the sanctions in the first place and Russia and China can veto future sanctions. This is what Iran was counting on, the world not being able to get together for sanctions all over again, especially if foreign businesses were entrenched in Iran. We should have stayed the course with sanctions in the first place and signed a deal where Iran agreed to never have a nuclear weapon or the material to make a weapon, of which could be used to make or sell dirty bombs to rogue nations, including North Korea.
 
What a surprise, Bolton is opposed!

Well true but Also a number of senators and they lay out specifically why they are opposed to it and have some pretty well laid out reasons.
 
Well true but Also a number of senators and they lay out specifically why they are opposed to it and have some pretty well laid out reasons.

No doubt. But my observations of these things has me suspect that some skepticism comes from hawkish types who see any negotiation with any adversary as a sign of weakness, especially if that person is a democrat. The fact that the agreement involved key US allies is another positive factor for me.

But a Middle Eastern (non-Iranian) friend reminded me that Persians/Iranians have been negotiating with the west for centuries and often get the better of us.
 
No doubt. But my observations of these things has me suspect that some skepticism comes from hawkish types who see any negotiation with any adversary as a sign of weakness, especially if that person is a democrat. The fact that the agreement involved key US allies is another positive factor for me.

But a Middle Eastern (non-Iranian) friend reminded me that Persians/Iranians have been negotiating with the west for centuries and often get the better of us.

There is nothing wrong with trying to negotiate. It should have been from a strong position from the beginning though and it wasn't. And even then the Iranians have at least at some point, I don't know about currently, not met the agreement.
To me this has been like the draw the red line with Syria and then do nothing when they cross it. The Iranian agreement was not a good one to start with. Trump talked it up big on how bad it was but has a different story now.
 
There is nothing wrong with trying to negotiate. It should have been from a strong position from the beginning though and it wasn't. And even then the Iranians have at least at some point, I don't know about currently, not met the agreement.
To me this has been like the draw the red line with Syria and then do nothing when they cross it. The Iranian agreement was not a good one to start with. Trump talked it up big on how bad it was but has a different story now.

You are familiar enough with the terms of the Iran agreement to know it was not good? Does anyone know whether there is debate on the merits of the agreement in the other countries that signed on?
 
You are familiar enough with the terms of the Iran agreement to know it was not good? Does anyone know whether there is debate on the merits of the agreement in the other countries that signed on?

Per a Washington Freebeacon article from a few years ago. -

Reza Najafi, Iran’s ambassador and permanent envoy to the IAEA, stated over the weekend that no country is permitted to know the details of future inspections conducted by the IAEA. In addition, no U.S. inspectors will be permitted to enter Iran’s nuclear sites.

"The provisions of a deal to which the IAEA and a second country are parties are confidential and should not be divulged to any third country, and as Mr. Kerry discussed it in the Congress, even the U.S. government had not been informed about the deal between IAEA and Iran," Najafi was quoted as saying by Iran’s Mehr News Agency.

ANd this is the reasons of concern stated in a letter Rubio, Cotton, Cruz and Perdue sent to the administration -

1. Iran is currently operating more advanced nuclear centrifuges than it is permitted under the JCPOA, maintains more advanced centrifuges than required for its permitted enrichment activities, and has announced the capability to initiate mass production of more advanced centrifuges.

2. Iran has repeatedly exceeded the limits the JCPOA places on its heavy water stocks. Heavy water is key to Iran's plutonium pathway to nuclear weapons. However, Iran has twice exceeded the JCPOA's heavy-water cap and has claimed a right to produce unlimited amounts of heavy water and retain ownership of those stocks as long as it claims to be "seeking" an international buyer. In doing so, Iran has effectively read the heavy-water limitation out of the JCPOA.

3. German intelligence agencies in 2015 and 2016 reported that Iran continued illicit attempts to procure nuclear and missile technology outside of JCPOA-approved channels.

4. Perhaps most concerning is Iran's refusal to grant international inspectors access to nuclear-research and military facilities. International Atomic Energy Agency ("IAEA") inspectors are entitled to visit any location in Iran to verify compliance with the JCPOA's ban on nuclear weapons development. However, Iran's refusal to grant inspectors physical access and other forms of access makes it possible-if not highly probable, given Iran's history of duplicity-that it is concealing additional violations of the JCPOA.
 
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