Page 6 of 6 FirstFirst ... 456
Results 51 to 55 of 55

Thread: Should The US ally with Countries that don't share it's values

  1. #51
    Advisor
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 07:38 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    308

    Re: Should The US ally with Countries that don't share it's values

    Quote Originally Posted by <alt>doxygen View Post
    Not unless they get us by the OPEC & the petrodollar the way the House of Saud did.

    Only make deals with Russia where we are guaranteed to get more than we give up. And Putin won't play that way.
    Fair enough, I'm a self interest guy first.
    Ticks, Habits or Behaviors either finds dislikeable in the other gotta be overlooked and taken with a grain of salt.

    Al Swearengen, HBO series Deadwood.

  2. #52
    Clown Prince of Politics
    Psychoclown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Hiding from the voices in my head.
    Last Seen
    07-26-17 @ 03:54 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    1,732

    Re: Should The US ally with Countries that don't share it's values

    We should ally with countries who can aid us in furthering our interests. That is the only standard I judge international politics and diplomacy by. Now countries that share our values are generally going to be reliable partners in furthering our interests. But that does not exclude those that do not share our values.

    But I do think we need to take a long term look at these sort of decisions. Propping up this regime or that regime might be a convenient solution to whatever crisis is currently at hand, but propping up despotic unpopular regimes generally has long term costs that need to be considered.
    Slipping into madness is good for the sake of comparison - Unknown.

  3. #53
    One with the Force
    LaylaWindu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    PA
    Last Seen
    07-24-17 @ 10:58 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    4,300

    Re: Should The US ally with Countries that don't share it's values

    Quote Originally Posted by Crispy View Post
    Yep I left it open exactly to see what types of responses would come up and whether I'd see partisan responses or pragmatic responses. I personally think national interest is the most important consideration in dealing with any other nation. Whether it was Obama dealing with Iran or Trump dealing with Putin, mutual interest is most important.

    That said, It's also our responsibility to call out any ally or partner on how they behave on the world stage and how they conform to international laws. I always liked that Reagan established the closest relationship with Russia (USSR) and yet had no problem calling them out on the world stage for the Berlin wall and on Communism despite that great relationship.
    Agreed for the most part, but also remember (and IM sure you know) its a two way street Gorby/Ussr isn't Putin/Russia but I understand your point regardless and its a solid one!
    "We are never done with lessons, not while we live"

  4. #54
    Advisor
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 07:38 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    308

    Re: Should The US ally with Countries that don't share it's values

    Quote Originally Posted by LaylaWindu View Post
    Agreed for the most part, but also remember (and IM sure you know) its a two way street Gorby/Ussr isn't Putin/Russia but I understand your point regardless and its a solid one!
    True, True, Timing is everything in the world and the timing was right to have 2 leaders willing to tear down walls physical and otherwise.
    Ticks, Habits or Behaviors either finds dislikeable in the other gotta be overlooked and taken with a grain of salt.

    Al Swearengen, HBO series Deadwood.

  5. #55
    Advisor
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 07:38 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    308

    Re: Should The US ally with Countries that don't share it's values

    Quote Originally Posted by Zinthaniel View Post
    Given that the government does not always represent the popular consensus of the people and at times will act totally contrary to what we want, I'm not sure what this question could accomplish if insight or a "gotch'a" is what you are looking for.

    Frankly, I do not believe we should be allied with Saudi Arabia nor Russia, but of course, that means little in matter of influence.

    Furthermore, morals vary. I believe russia and saudi treat their homosexual community atrociously, but some smile at the thought of imprisoning homosexuals others simply can't be bothered to care.

    The nuances make the conclusion anything but cut and dry.
    Well, to me it's not so much gotcha as it is looking for the honest answer and not the partisan answer. I hear ya, I despise how Russia and the Saudis and Iran and NK treat their citizens and think they ought to be condemned for crossing the line of international human rights laws. I apply that same standard to us of course. Honesty slips through the cracks though when we talk about these relationships through the political lens. It discourages me that partisans can flip on a dime with their stance based on political bias rather than principle.

    The reason I brought up Reagan and Gorbachev was because I thought that relationship was a truly honest principled relationship. That's why it broke ground.

    I totally agree morals vary and not all morals are equal so to speak. For a devout Muslim woman to wear a burka or agree with the restrictions that her nation puts on her though I'll respect. There's a degree of star trek "non interference" that I believe in which is why I put mutual interest before aligned values. That doesn't mean I'll respect, advocate or condone human rights violations but it does mean that I don't believe we need to see eye to eye in order to ally for mutual benefit.
    Ticks, Habits or Behaviors either finds dislikeable in the other gotta be overlooked and taken with a grain of salt.

    Al Swearengen, HBO series Deadwood.

Page 6 of 6 FirstFirst ... 456

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •