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Does "shame" have any value at all?

Does "shame" have any value at all?

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radcen said:
Does "shame" have any value at all?

Teenage (and/or unwed) pregnancy. Drug use/abuse. Homelessness. Welfare/food stamps. Insert other scenario as you wish. Are there times where "shame" is an appropriate response and/or method of "encourage" a person to improve their situation?

Yes? Sometimes? If so, where's the line? What would be good shaming and what would be bad shaming? No?
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Shame has no value; we see this every day.
Embarrassing the Hell out of civil minded, law abiding Americans because you are the biggest jackass buffoon of a POTUS since forever = Trump.
That right there is proof that shame does not mean a ****ing thing whatsoever ..........
 
cuban smokes said:
Shame has no value; we see this every day.
Embarrassing the Hell out of civil minded, law abiding Americans because you are the biggest jackass buffoon of a POTUS since forever = Trump.
That right there is proof that shame does not mean a ****ing thing whatsoever ..........
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Good job... :roll:
 
_Sal said:
shaming another human being has no value

feeling shame for something one did can have value
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complete contradiction...
 
Skeptic Bob said:
Sometimes, but not in the cases mentioned in the OP. I'm also not a big fan of public shaming unless it is an adult who did something really bad.

But I think shame is useful when raising kids. No ass whooping ever affected me as much as shame. There is nothing that hits home with most kids more than having a parent in a calm, solemn manner say, "I never thought you would disappoint me like that, but you did" and then just walk out of the room. But you got to reserve that for the really bad stuff.
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I've never been a fan of that tactic. To me, that makes it about the parent's embarrassment and not the kid's action. To me that comes off as selfish from the parent, though to be honest statement like, "Do you know how that makes me look?", would be a better example of what I am saying.
 
Goshin said:
The threat of public shaming has always been at least somewhat effective.

Some might think it has gone out of fashion but far from it; it has simply changed hands and focus. Once it was the tool of the traditional establishment and directed an unwed motherhood, drunks, bums who didn't work, and so on.

Now it is the tool of the progressives, who seek to shame into silence anyone who questions their values or agenda as racist, sexist, homophobic, etc.
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Good observation.
 
radcen said:
Not humiliation in the extreme sense. Maybe "stigma" might be a good word to go along with it. Maintaining a stigma?
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Here is what Dictionary.com offers:


1. the painful feeling arising from the consciousness of something dishonorable, improper, ridiculous, etc., done by oneself or another: She was overcome with shame.

2. susceptibility to this feeling: to be without shame.


3. disgrace; ignominy: His actions brought shame upon his parents.

Several years ago Bill Bennett wrote about the lack of shame in current society and why its return might be of benefit. If you've done something wrong, isn't a feeling of shame a worthy emotion?
 
nota bene said:
Here is what Dictionary.com offers:


1. the painful feeling arising from the consciousness of something dishonorable, improper, ridiculous, etc., done by oneself or another: She was overcome with shame.

2. susceptibility to this feeling: to be without shame.


3. disgrace; ignominy: His actions brought shame upon his parents.

Several years ago Bill Bennett wrote about the lack of shame in current society and why its return might be of benefit. If you've done something wrong, isn't a feeling of shame a worthy emotion?
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I have thoughts on this but we're getting ready to host a bonfire in a bit. I will try to remember to respond properly tomorrow.
 
radcen said:
Does "shame" have any value at all?

Teenage (and/or unwed) pregnancy. Drug use/abuse. Homelessness. Welfare/food stamps. Insert other scenario as you wish. Are there times where "shame" is an appropriate response and/or method of "encourage" a person to improve their situation?

Yes? Sometimes? If so, where's the line? What would be good shaming and what would be bad shaming? No?
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Ordering a double Whopper with cheese....

I have really had it with politically motivated shame generators.
 
_Sal said:
how so?
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shaming another human being has no value

feeling shame for something one did can have value
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I guess not complete contradiction but most of the time shame is brought on by how others view or react to our actions/comments.

If I push a toddler over and think that it is funny and have no idea that morally that is wrong and look around and see others upset or telling me off then shame is not inherent. That is all... :)
 
nota bene said:
Here is what Dictionary.com offers:


1. the painful feeling arising from the consciousness of something dishonorable, improper, ridiculous, etc., done by oneself or another: She was overcome with shame.

2. susceptibility to this feeling: to be without shame.


3. disgrace; ignominy: His actions brought shame upon his parents.

Several years ago Bill Bennett wrote about the lack of shame in current society and why its return might be of benefit. If you've done something wrong, isn't a feeling of shame a worthy emotion?
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It is. Certainly my parents ("Greatest Generation", grew up during late Depression and WW2) found it quite useful in modifying my behavior.

As have I. As I told my son when he started going out on his own, "Neither your great-grandfather, nor your PaPaw, nor your father, has ever spent a night in jail.... don't be the one to break the tradition and shame your family."

So far, so good... ;)
 
Goshin said:
It is. Certainly my parents ("Greatest Generation", grew up during late Depression and WW2) found it quite useful in modifying my behavior.

As have I. As I told my son when he started going out on his own, "Neither your great-grandfather, nor your PaPaw, nor your father, has ever spent a night in jail.... don't be the one to break the tradition and shame your family."

So far, so good... ;)
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I took a simpler approach with my kids, particularly concerning bad public behavior. I'm from the hissed "I will kill you if you ever...." school. Sometimes, I offered the variation "I will DIE if you EVER...." ;)
 
I think useful shame comes from feeling ashamed yourself. Like something made you feel guilty. So the next time it comes around you feel ashamed for even considering it.

People who arent able to shame themselves are gonna emotionally explode if you manage to shame them enough. And they probably dont deserve that unless they REALLY are a huuuuge monster.

I think i rather silently shun and avoid than shame.
 
It should have value. Shame is a means of controlling behavior. It keeps people from being complete idiots. It makes people think twice before they act because if they get caught, they will be shamed or embarrassed to their friends and family and the larger community. This is a good thing. However, in the modern world, shame is really meaningless. Nobody cares anymore. Nobody cares how they look to others or how others perceive them. It's one reason the world is so screwed up.
 
_Sal said:
shaming another human being has no value

feeling shame for something one did can have value if it makes one behave in a better manner

if however it destroys a person....it's useless
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Shaming another has no value without including a path to redemption/restitution.

Feeling shame has no value unless it leads to redemption/restitution.
 
Bodhisattva said:
I guess not complete contradiction but most of the time shame is brought on by how others view or react to our actions/comments.
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I believe shame is often self generated, and often why people end up in counselling because they can not deal with the shame of what they have done

If I push a toddler over and think that it is funny and have no idea that morally that is wrong and look around and see others upset or telling me off then shame is not inherent. That is all... :)
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hey, you leave that toddler alone... :mrgreen:
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Shaming another has no value without including a path to redemption/restitution.

Feeling shame has no value unless it leads to redemption/restitution.
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yes I would agree with that

recently I have come to believe that berating anyone because we feel anger in the moment is a useless and destructive thing for both parties
 
_Sal said:
yes I would agree with that

recently I have come to believe that berating anyone because we feel anger in the moment is a useless and destructive thing for both parties
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Yep, offering constructive criticism is best yet, once offered and ignored, it may be time to cut one's losses. ;)
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Yep, offering constructive criticism is best yet, once offered and ignored, it may be time to cut one's losses. ;)
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yes and that's the other thing old age is teaching me, that old adage "you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make him drink" is true

folksy old wisdom had it's place...lol
 
_Sal said:
yes and that's the other thing old age is teaching me, that old adage "you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make him drink" is true

folksy old wisdom had it's place...lol
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Indeed, it seems that common sense is no longer so common. ;)
 
radcen said:
Does "shame" have any value at all?

Teenage (and/or unwed) pregnancy. Drug use/abuse. Homelessness. Welfare/food stamps. Insert other scenario as you wish. Are there times where "shame" is an appropriate response and/or method of "encourage" a person to improve their situation?

Yes? Sometimes? If so, where's the line? What would be good shaming and what would be bad shaming? No?
Click to expand...
It can potentially be helpful, but it also has a large chance of causing great harm, including driving someone to suicide.
 
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