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The ACA (Obamacare):

The ACA (Obamacare):

  • Is fine as is

    Votes: 1 2.6%

  • Would have been fine if Republicans hadn't purposely sabotaged it

    Votes: 11 28.2%

  • Obviously needs fixing

    Votes: 3 7.7%

  • Needs repeal & replace with a conservative market orientated system

    Votes: 7 17.9%

  • Needs repeal & replace with a single payer system

    Votes: 13 33.3%

  • other

    Votes: 4 10.3%
  • Total voters
    39
Other - needs a "public option". Of course, to be optional that requires dropping any mandate.
 
Obamacare, just made things worse and Trump care made them even worse than that.

Though, Obamacare did have it's good, can't say that so far about this new plan.
 
I vote for a single payer system, but lacking that the ACA is doing just fine in it's goal of delivering healthcare insurance to a much larger percentage of the population than before. That being said, the cost of healthcare still far exceeds the ability to pay for most Americans. It's not a commodity like buying a car. Everyone must have insurance and access to preventative care if we are to have a healthier society. That's the only realistic way to minimize cost increases. Limiting hugely expensive end stage conditions should be the goal.

As it is, ACA or not, most people can not even approach affordability for heath care without subsidization by some entity like the government or employers. The cost of medical technology and practice far exceeds the ability of the common person to pay for. They could cut all medical costs in half and most people still could not afford it. Not even close. So don't look for minor fixes and adjustments to make a substantial and meaningful difference in affordability.
 
The ACA (Obamacare) has its flaws, but it certainly could have been improved/fixed by the majority GOP.

Instead of doing that, House Republicans crafted an entirely new plan (in secret) that treats healthcare legislation mainly as a vehicle to provide huge tax cuts for the elite 1%.

The CBO score for Trumpcare 2.0 is just as horrific as it was for the original AHCA plan ... 23 million Americans will lose their healthcare.

The GOP House AHCA legislation combined with Trumps budget cuts to Medicaid and CHIP will end healthcare coverage for 1 of every 3 American children.
 
It should be replaced with a mild single-payer system. I'd be willing to hear other options too, but the status quo isn't an improvement, nor is the plan that passed the house.
 
It's the best thing so far and that's after the GOP f*cking with it.

Needs to stay in place until something better comes along and anything better is the opposite of the GOP agenda. So, I'm not expecting any progress and I am fine with protecting the current order.
 
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"Other" It would have been fine if it were never shoved down our throats.

Out of all the bad things Obama and the Democrats did to our country during the last 8 years, Obamacare is the worst. We can't get rid of it fast enough.
 
Mycroft said:
"Other" It would have been fine if it were never shoved down our throats. Out of all the bad things Obama and the Democrats did to our country during the last 8 years, Obamacare is the worst. We can't get rid of it fast enough.
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Government's involvement in health care will continue to grow, so I think now Other. We don't see other countries trying to imitate our mess.
 
The government should help those who need - not want, need - help. And let everyone else work things out on their own.

Obamacare started as a nice idea to help 30+ million Americans who did not have healthcare to get some.

But it exploded into a bloated whale.

Now the Reps are trying to turn it in to a bloated whale they can live with.

But it's still a bloated whale.

Just give healthcare to those who need it and cannot afford it - unconditionally - and leave everyone else ALONE.



Additionally, I still say full healthcare for children, the disabled and veterans and basic healthcare for everyone else if they need it. And let charities/insurance take care of the rest.
I do not agree with government's paying $200,000 for a triple bypass for a 79 year old fat, smoker just so he can stay alive for 20 more months. Give him the basics. But it he wants that mega operation...get insurance/charities to pay for it, not the government.
 
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We will never have a national single payer system in this country. It is politically impossible. So put that one out of your mind.

The ACA obviously needs a lot of reform. There is very little in it to control provider costs and that is the root of the problem. So long as hospitals are able to do things like bill 400 dollars for a 23 dollar metabolic panel, have a whole racket where every physican does daily 1000 dollar plus drive bys ("How you feeling today Mr. Smith - $2k consult), orthopedists making 800k a year or more, cardiologists 700k a year or more and so on (far more than they would earn anywhere else in the world), and an entire consulting industry exists that tells providers how to maximize the billing all the way to the legal line for fraud, then you are going to have high insurance rates. This stuff is not BCBS or Humana's fault. BCBS would love for plastic surgeons not to charge 30k to put in 5 facial stitches after an accident. Its a racket. Thats the problem. And until the government starts aggressively prosecuting this kind of crap and demanding price transparency and so on, nothing will significantly reduce your insurance rates.

Your insurance policy is probably around 150 pages or so. In contrast, the bill for a 2 night hospital stay will easily be hundreds of pages, all coded in such a fashion that you will have no idea what you are even being billed for.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
We will never have a national single payer system in this country. It is politically impossible. So put that one out of your mind.

The ACA obviously needs a lot of reform. There is very little in it to control provider costs and that is the root of the problem. So long as hospitals are able to do things like bill 400 dollars for a 23 dollar metabolic panel, have a whole racket where every physican does daily 1000 dollar plus drive bys ("How you feeling today Mr. Smith - $2k consult), orthopedists making 800k a year or more, cardiologists 700k a year or more and so on (far more than they would earn anywhere else in the world), and an entire consulting industry exists that tells providers how to maximize the billing all the way to the legal line for fraud, then you are going to have high insurance rates. This stuff is not BCBS or Humana's fault. BCBS would love for plastic surgeons not to charge 30k to put in 5 facial stitches after an accident. Its a racket. Thats the problem. And until the government starts aggressively prosecuting this kind of crap and demanding price transparency and so on, nothing will significantly reduce your insurance rates.

Your insurance policy is probably around 150 pages or so. In contrast, the bill for a 2 night hospital stay will easily be hundreds of pages, all coded in such a fashion that you will have no idea what you are even being billed for.
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Never is a long time.

Maybe not anytime soon or even remotely soon.

But never...maybe, maybe not.
 
DA60 said:
Never is a long time.

Maybe not anytime soon or even remotely soon.

But never...maybe, maybe not.
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Let's just say I would be willing to bet my retirement on it not happening in anyone's lifetime on here.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
We will never have a national single payer system in this country. It is politically impossible. So put that one out of your mind.

The ACA obviously needs a lot of reform. There is very little in it to control provider costs and that is the root of the problem. So long as hospitals are able to do things like bill 400 dollars for a 23 dollar metabolic panel, have a whole racket where every physican does daily 1000 dollar plus drive bys ("How you feeling today Mr. Smith - $2k consult), orthopedists making 800k a year or more, cardiologists 700k a year or more and so on (far more than they would earn anywhere else in the world), and an entire consulting industry exists that tells providers how to maximize the billing all the way to the legal line for fraud, then you are going to have high insurance rates. This stuff is not BCBS or Humana's fault. BCBS would love for plastic surgeons not to charge 30k to put in 5 facial stitches after an accident. Its a racket. Thats the problem. And until the government starts aggressively prosecuting this kind of crap and demanding price transparency and so on, nothing will significantly reduce your insurance rates.

Your insurance policy is probably around 150 pages or so. In contrast, the bill for a 2 night hospital stay will easily be hundreds of pages, all coded in such a fashion that you will have no idea what you are even being billed for.
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The best way to bring the costs of healthcare down is to get the government the hell out of the healthcare business, with the exception of minimal common sense regulations. Healthcare is like any other good or service, competition and market forces if allowed will control the costs. Artificial price controls never work.
 
ObamacareFail said:
The best way to bring the costs of healthcare down is to get the government the hell out of the healthcare business, with the exception of minimal common sense regulations. Healthcare is like any other good or service, competition and market forces if allowed will control the costs. Artificial price controls never work.
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Virtually every other developed country recognizes that necessary healthcare simply doesn't work like any other economic sector. For example, you get diagnosed with cancer, you either agree to pay whatever they want to charge you or you die a horrible death. You need a heart bypass. You either pay whatever they want to charge you, or you die. The cost of cancer treatments could go up 10 fold overnight and there would not be a corresponding reduction in the number of cancer patients. The cardiologist practices in your city could double the charges over night and it would not result in a reduction in your arterial sclerosis. That is why you cannot simply leave it to the private sector. Healthcare is the very definition of a market failure. The only forms of healthcare with some self regulating costs are purely elective forms like plastic surgery. If the patient cannot back out of the procedure, then there is no way they can curb costs.

Even in countries where most people are insured by private insurance companies and the health systems are owned by the private sector, they typically will establish prices through negotiation every few years between committees of physician groups and economists. For example, in Japan, a knee replacement is the same cost regardless of where you have it done. An MRI is the same cost regardless of where you have it done. In Australia, a physician must by law give you a good faith cost estimate along with the consent forms for any procedure.

In America, in many markets there is zero competition on the provider side. Its common in medium sized cities for one health system to own all the hospitals, all the specialist practice groups, and virtually all the primary care groups.

I think we can and should have mostly private insurers and mostly private healthcare providers, but to get costs under control there will have to be significant regulation of monopolies and price transparency.
 
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SouthernDemocrat said:
Virtually every other developed country recognizes that necessary healthcare simply doesn't work like any other economic sector. For example, you get diagnosed with cancer, you either agree to pay whatever they want to charge you or you die a horrible death. You need a heart bypass. You either pay whatever they want to charge you, or you die. The cost of cancer treatments could go up 10 fold overnight and there would not be a corresponding reduction in the number of cancer patients. The cardiologist practices in your city could double the charges over night and it would not result in a reduction in your arterial sclerosis. That is why you cannot simply leave it to the private sector. Healthcare is the very definition of a market failure. The only forms of healthcare with some self regulating costs are purely elective forms like plastic surgery. If the patient cannot back out of the procedure, then there is no way they can curb costs.

Even in countries where most people are insured by private insurance companies and the health systems are owned by the private sector, they typically will establish prices through negotiation every few years between committees of physician groups and economists. For example, in Japan, a knee replacement is the same cost regardless of where you have it done. An MRI is the same cost regardless of where you have it done. In Australia, a physician must by law give you a good faith cost estimate along with the consent forms for any procedure.

In America, in many markets there is zero competition on the provider side. Its common in medium sized cities for one health system to own all the hospitals, all the specialist practice groups, and virtually all the primary care groups.

I think we can and should have mostly private insurers and mostly private healthcare providers, but to get costs under control there will have to be significant regulation of monopolies and price transparency.
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Government price controls on anything including healthcare have only driven prices up. Just look at Obamacare. Like I said.......get the government out of the private healthcare business, other then common sense regulation.....which would included laws preventing gouging.
 
I am very LIBERTARIAN but considering all of the BS that has transpired within the US Government over the past decades concerning their intervention in the health care markets/insurance/system/etc., and as much as I hate to say this, the US needs a single payer system, ****ing period

I voted = Needs repeal & replace with a single payer system

if the GOP has their way too many Americans will end up DEAD ....... and in short order ........ but of course, that is what they want ...........
 
ObamacareFail said:
Government price controls on anything including healthcare have only driven prices up. Just look at Obamacare. Like I said.......get the government out of the private healthcare business, other then common sense regulation.....which would included laws preventing gouging.
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Sometimes I wonder if some of you guys were in coma up until the day the ACA was passed.

8775-exhibit-1-131.png


Health insurance went up every year prior to the ACA and did every year afterwards. The trend line is exactly the same before and after.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Virtually every other developed country recognizes that necessary healthcare simply doesn't work like any other economic sector. For example, you get diagnosed with cancer, you either agree to pay whatever they want to charge you or you die a horrible death. You need a heart bypass. You either pay whatever they want to charge you, or you die. The cost of cancer treatments could go up 10 fold overnight and there would not be a corresponding reduction in the number of cancer patients. The cardiologist practices in your city could double the charges over night and it would not result in a reduction in your arterial sclerosis. That is why you cannot simply leave it to the private sector. Healthcare is the very definition of a market failure. The only forms of healthcare with some self regulating costs are purely elective forms like plastic surgery. If the patient cannot back out of the procedure, then there is no way they can curb costs.

Even in countries where most people are insured by private insurance companies and the health systems are owned by the private sector, they typically will establish prices through negotiation every few years between committees of physician groups and economists. For example, in Japan, a knee replacement is the same cost regardless of where you have it done. An MRI is the same cost regardless of where you have it done. In Australia, a physician must by law give you a good faith cost estimate along with the consent forms for any procedure.

In America, in many markets there is zero competition on the provider side. Its common in medium sized cities for one health system to own all the hospitals, all the specialist practice groups, and virtually all the primary care groups.

I think we can and should have mostly private insurers and mostly private healthcare providers, but to get costs under control there will have to be significant regulation of monopolies and price transparency.
Click to expand...

i like your thinking....and agree that our system has to change....but i dont know how just yet

but changing one part wont work....greed may be a part of the pricing structure, but necessity is another part because of what it costs to become that doctor

what do most kids owe as they get out of medical school?

just had one of my friends kids graduate from Stanford, after getting their undergrad at UC Berkley ( one very proud dad)

out of state tuition since he lives in the DC area....

med school alone was nearly 120k.....total student debt is well over 240k with dad kicking in around 40k

now, his earnings are going to be great.....but how many graduate and dont have that resume....and his earning potential

i dont want to change it all....but i know certain things have got to change.....

still thinking about how i think it should all work...lots of questions, and not a lot of answers right now
 
gdgyva said:
i like your thinking....and agree that our system has to change....but i dont know how just yet

but changing one part wont work....greed may be a part of the pricing structure, but necessity is another part because of what it costs to become that doctor

what do most kids owe as they get out of medical school?

just had one of my friends kids graduate from Stanford, after getting their undergrad at UC Berkley ( one very proud dad)

out of state tuition since he lives in the DC area....

med school alone was nearly 120k.....total student debt is well over 240k with dad kicking in around 40k

now, his earnings are going to be great.....but how many graduate and dont have that resume....and his earning potential

i dont want to change it all....but i know certain things have got to change.....

still thinking about how i think it should all work...lots of questions, and not a lot of answers right now
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I agree that becoming a doctor is very hard and very expensive. That is why they are paid well just about everywhere in the world as they should be. However, look at this way. Most people get out of college and have spent 1 to 3 times their initial yearly income on their education. A specialist will get out and have spent around 30% of their initial yearly income on their education. Its a lot money, but they make a lot of money so compared to their earning potential its easily paid off. A cardiologist can pay of 250k of student loans much easier than an elementary teacher can pay of 70k of loans.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
I agree that becoming a doctor is very hard and very expensive. That is why they are paid well just about everywhere in the world as they should be. However, look at this way. Most people get out of college and have spent 1 to 3 times their initial yearly income on their education. A specialist will get out and have spent around 30% of their initial yearly income on their education. Its a lot money, but they make a lot of money so compared to their earning potential its easily paid off. A cardiologist can pay of 250k of student loans much easier than an elementary teacher can pay of 70k of loans.
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However it can take 16 years to become a specialist in the medical field. Not the case for elementary teachers. However if such teachers would stat teaching them more and indoctrinating them less, I would be okay with giving them more money.
 
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