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Suicide or not?

Suicide or not?

  • Total voters
    18
Lovebug

Lovebug

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Lets say a guy is diagnosed with a terminal illness and gets into an accident. The doctors diagnose him with bleeding in the brain. The patient is refusing treatment, knowing the brain bleed will kill him.
Is that equivalent to suicide? Why or why not?
 
Lovebug said:
Lets say a guy is diagnosed with a terminal illness and gets into an accident. The doctors diagnose him with bleeding in the brain. The patient is refusing treatment, knowing the brain bleed will kill him.
Is that equivalent to suicide? Why or why not?
Click to expand...

No. He denied treatment and died as a result of the accident. I'm not sure how an insurance company would argue differently.
 
To me, that is suicide. But I have no ethical qualms with suicide. If you think suicide is unethical or a mortal sin I can certainly understand why you wouldn't want to consider it suicide.

But you are still choosing to die over trying to stay alive.
 
Skeptic Bob said:
To me, that is suicide. But I have no ethical qualms with suicide. If you think suicide is unethical or a mortal sin I can certainly understand why you wouldn't want to consider it suicide.

But you are still choosing to die over trying to stay alive.
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Do the physicians carry some responsibility? Are they assisting?
 
Skeptic Bob said:
To me, that is suicide. But I have no ethical qualms with suicide. If you think suicide is unethical or a mortal sin I can certainly understand why you wouldn't want to consider it suicide.

But you are still choosing to die over trying to stay alive.
Click to expand...

According to that reasoning every time you make a poor health decision you are committing suicide: like eating unhealthy foods, drinking or smoking
 
Crovax said:
According to that reasoning every time you make a poor health decision you are committing suicide: like eating unhealthy foods, drinking or smoking
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Is it? Please take into consideration that the patience is terminally ill.
 
Lovebug said:
Do the physicians carry some responsibility? Are they assisting?
Click to expand...

I don't think so, because the doctors don't have a choice in the matter. The decision rests with the patient.
 
Crovax said:
According to that reasoning every time you make a poor health decision you are committing suicide: like eating unhealthy foods, drinking or smoking
Click to expand...
Incrementally, I agree!
 
Crovax said:
According to that reasoning every time you make a poor health decision you are committing suicide: like eating unhealthy foods, drinking or smoking
Click to expand...

I do think there is a difference. Intent. Eating unhealthy and engaging in dangerous hobbies may increase the odds of you dying at a younger age, but that doesn't mean people who do those things actually believe they will die from it.
 
There are things worse than death. The compassionate can recognize this and make the allowance that some among us are inarguably better off with death. What one might chose to label that is inconsequential.
 
Skeptic Bob said:
I do think there is a difference. Intent. Eating unhealthy and engaging in dangerous hobbies may increase the odds of you dying at a younger age, but that doesn't mean people who do those things actually believe they will die from it.
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So ignorance is what separates suicide from wherever your are calling leading an extremely unhealthy lifestyle?
 
humbolt said:
There are things worse than death. The compassionate can recognize this and make the allowance that some among us are inarguably better off with death. What one might chose to label that is inconsequential.
Click to expand...

I didn't ask the question to render judgment one way or the other. The question came to mind when I watched an episode of Chicago Med. The patient had ALS, tripped, fell, banged his head and was diagnosed with a brain bleed, refused treatment because of the ALS. They escalated the situation with the additional diagnosis of disseminated intravascular coagulation.
I have personally not made up my mind if it is suicide or not, a very personal choice imo.
 
Crovax said:
So ignorance is what separates suicide from wherever your are calling leading an extremely unhealthy lifestyle?
Click to expand...

For me it is intent. IMO, to be suicide, the person has to consciously choose to die. Otherwise the umbrella gets too big. We all do things from time to time that don't optimize our chances of living the longest life possible.

That's not to say that there aren't people who smoke and gorge themselves with the intent of eventually dying from it. But I think they are the exception.
 
If we have a right to life, then we have a right to die. They are two sides of the same existential coin.
I voted Other because Yes or No doesn't capture my view of the matter.
Laws against suicide are contrary to consistent thinking on human rights.
I understand that as a society we might wish to discourage suicide in our members, but penalties for attempted suicide are logically inconsistent, and penalties for successful suicide are so much nonsense.
 
Lovebug said:
I didn't ask the question to render judgment one way or the other. The question came to mind when I watched an episode of Chicago Med. The patient had ALS, tripped, fell, banged his head and was diagnosed with a brain bleed, refused treatment because of the ALS. They escalated the situation with the additional diagnosis of disseminated intravascular coagulation.
I have personally not made up my mind if it is suicide or not, a very personal choice imo.
Click to expand...

I understand, but naturally the question is reduced to a judgement in any case. I understand that you want to know if it's suicide or not. I'm contending that it doesn't matter in such situations.
 
Lovebug said:
Lets say a guy is diagnosed with a terminal illness and gets into an accident. The doctors diagnose him with bleeding in the brain. The patient is refusing treatment, knowing the brain bleed will kill him.
Is that equivalent to suicide? Why or why not?
Click to expand...

No.

To deny treatment and allow nature to take its course is a right and a choice we all have to make some day.
 
Skeptic Bob said:
To me, that is suicide. But I have no ethical qualms with suicide. If you think suicide is unethical or a mortal sin I can certainly understand why you wouldn't want to consider it suicide.

But you are still choosing to die over trying to stay alive.
Click to expand...


Then is cigarette smoking a long term suicide?

Everything we do leads to one place - the grave
 
Fearandloathing said:
Then is cigarette smoking a long term suicide?

Everything we do leads to one place - the grave
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That is a loaded question. We know we will die eventually. Is every faux pas an attempted suicide? We drive too fast, we go parachuting, we have a drink, we may dabble in drugs or eat hamburger.
No easy answer for sure.
 
Fearandloathing said:
Then is cigarette smoking a long term suicide?

Everything we do leads to one place - the grave
Click to expand...

For the reasons I explain in post #14, I personally wouldn't consider that suicide in most cases.
 
Crovax said:
So ignorance is what separates suicide from wherever your are calling leading an extremely unhealthy lifestyle?
Click to expand...

Suicide is 'the action of killing oneself intentionally'.

https://www.bing.com/search?q=suici...78C7EFD56D493D921F165E48E8D4E4&FORM=QBRE&sp=1


Someone who eats a fatty sandwich is probably not intentionally trying to kill themselves. They are just hungry and grabbed the tastiest/fastest thing they could find.

By definition, without the intent, there is no suicide.
 
Lovebug said:
That is a loaded question. We know we will die eventually. Is every faux pas an attempted suicide? We drive too fast, we go parachuting, we have a drink, we may dabble in drugs or eat hamburger.
No easy answer for sure.
Click to expand...


That was my point.

Many people are of the "live hard, die young" variety.

In reality though, most people who smoke know very well they are slowly killing themselves but continue. That's the reality of all addictions, from opiates to coffee.
 
Skeptic Bob said:
For me it is intent. IMO, to be suicide, the person has to consciously choose to die. Otherwise the umbrella gets too big. We all do things from time to time that don't optimize our chances of living the longest life possible.

That's not to say that there aren't people who smoke and gorge themselves with the intent of eventually dying from it. But I think they are the exception.
Click to expand...



It's called addiction. No one who smokes will tell you that they want to kill themselves, they know they are dying slowly but can do nothing.

I have worked voluntarily with addicts for many years, Sunday marked 27 years clean and sober.

However, there comes a point for most who are 'sick and tired of being sick and trued' and one of two things happen. They either die of an overdose or seek help. I cannot be sure, but I know for a fact in the end those OD's were deliberate.
 
Lovebug said:
Do the physicians carry some responsibility? Are they assisting?
Click to expand...

How are they assisting if they are not providing treatment? I mean, I'm not providing treatment either, am I assisting? That makes no sense.
 
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