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Should a law be passed that bars airlines from overbooking flights?

Should a law be passed that bars airlines from overbooking flights?

  • Total voters
    58
TOJ said:
Probably piss a lot more off by raising prices enough to compensate for not overbooking. :shrug:

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i support finding out. if you buy a seat, it's yours for that flight. if market forces aren't promoting that reality, then it's time for regulation. i flew for the first time in fourteen years in 2015, and the experience was a nightmare. they resold my seat because my employer didn't click a box somewhere, and i had to rent a car and drive the rest of the way so that i could make my orientation. had to make multiple phone calls to make sure that my ticket home didn't get resold, and it's amazing that i was able to get it done, since someone else booked the flight.

**** that. if you can't stay in business delivering the service that you sell, then go bankrupt.
 
Helix said:
i support finding out. if you buy a seat, it's yours for that flight. if market forces aren't promoting that reality, then it's time for regulation. i flew for the first time in fourteen years in 2015, and the experience was a nightmare. they resold my seat because my employer didn't click a box somewhere, and i had to rent a car and drive the rest of the way so that i could make my orientation. had to make multiple phone calls to make sure that my ticket home didn't get resold, and it's amazing that i was able to get it done, since someone else booked the flight.

**** that. if you can't stay in business delivering the service that you sell, then go bankrupt.
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Or say to your potential customers, what we're selling is a trip to where you want to go with no guarantees you'll be on the flight and times you prefer. If you don't like it you can buy a plane ticket from some mythical competitor who will make such promises to you, otherwise you can drive or catch a greyhound.
 
The last few times I have flown, I've used Priceline. All tickets purchased were non-refundable. I have never been bumped, or placed on standby. Am I just lucky?
 
Winchester said:
Or say to your potential customers, what we're selling is a trip to where you want to go with no guarantees you'll be on the flight and times you prefer. If you don't like it you can buy a plane ticket from some mythical competitor who will make such promises to you, otherwise you can drive or catch a greyhound.
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i generally pick not flying unless i have to. it was fun when i was a kid in the 1980s. these days, it's generally a nightmare.
 
Helix said:
i support finding out. if you buy a seat, it's yours for that flight.
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Do you really think you can say that enough times to make it so? :doh

if market forces aren't promoting that reality, then it's time for regulation. i flew for the first time in fourteen years in 2015, and the experience was a nightmare. they resold my seat because my employer didn't click a box somewhere, and i had to rent a car and drive the rest of the way so that i could make my orientation. had to make multiple phone calls to make sure that my ticket home didn't get resold, and it's amazing that i was able to get it done, since someone else booked the flight.
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Poor, Poor you. :lamo

**** that. if you can't stay in business delivering the service that you sell, then go bankrupt.
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They are delivering what they contracted to deliver. If people are too stupid to read and understand the contract, well.....oh well. :shrug:

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countryboy said:
The last few times I have flown, I've used Priceline. All tickets purchased were non-refundable. I have never been bumped, or placed on standby. Am I just lucky?
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No, for the most part airlines are pretty damn good at statistically calculating how many overbooks they can safely sell w/o causing problems.
 
Helix said:
i generally pick not flying unless i have to. it was fun when i was a kid in the 1980s. these days, it's generally a nightmare.
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You can probably thank airline deregulation for that.
 
TOJ said:
Do you really think you can say that enough times to make it so? :doh
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it is so. if they've figured out a way to worm around that reality, then i support legislation designed to prevent them from doing that.
 
TOJ said:
Before deregulation, many people could not afford to fly.

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Exactly. It's quite obvious the vast majority of travelers care about one thing and one thing only... the cheapest flight they can possibly get. That means smaller seats, less luggage and airlines that struggle to maximize revenues any way they can so as to not go bankrupt meaning overbooking to insure that every seat will be filled on every flight.
 
Winchester said:
Oh hell no. I'm more than willing to take the chance on being bumped to keep ticket prices lower. Just make 2 tiers of tickets and charge accordingly. Ticket 1, you will not be bumped (more expensive), ticket 2 you might be bumped if we oversell. I'd be willing to bet 99% of the customers will chose the cheaper option.
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Excellent idea. It makes sense. It would work. They won't do it.
 
countryboy said:
The last few times I have flown, I've used Priceline. All tickets purchased were non-refundable. I have never been bumped, or placed on standby. Am I just lucky?
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No, that would make you normal. Overbooking is actually pretty rare, despite what the current news cycle is pushing.
 
Helix said:
it is so. if they've figured out a way to worm around that reality, then i support legislation designed to prevent them from doing that.
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No matter how many times you say it, you are not buying a seat. You are paying for transportation under certain conditions. Read the damn contract.

If you don't like it, too bad. Find another way to get there.

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Helix said:
i suppose we'll see. if they piss enough people off, they're putting themselves at risk of regulation.
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That's usually how we get laws like this. People can prattle free market all day long, and deny that the provider has any ethical obligation so long as the consumer makes their Hobson's choice, but reality is that if the provider takes it too far and enough people feel abused and make it an issue the government will step in.
 
Winchester said:
Exactly. It's quite obvious the vast majority of travelers care about one thing and one thing only... the cheapest flight they can possibly get. That means smaller seats, less luggage and airlines that struggle to maximize revenues any way they can so as to not go bankrupt meaning overbooking to insure that every seat will be filled on every flight.
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I flew more before deregulation than I fly now. :shrug:

It's the hassle that keeps me away now.
 
kitsune said:
In my experience they are much less likely to mess with you if you are in first class or business. Having a healthy mileage balance and the right credit card also helps. If you are going for the cheap seats or you are not seen as a consistent income source you get treated accordingly. It's called Capitalism. Or the Free Market. Or something. Whatever it is, the less you pay the greater your chances of not even getting what you thought you'd paid for.
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Are you condoning and/or approving that? Generally, when people pay less for something they are knowingly paying less for less comfort and fewer perks, not nothing at all.
 
radcen said:
I flew more before deregulation than I fly now. :shrug:

It's the hassle that keeps me away now.
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But before deregulation, many people did not fly at all because is was too expensive. Most people are willing to put up with the hassle in exchange for low prices. If not, they would pay for first class or charter.

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radcen said:
Are you condoning and/or approving that? Generally, when people pay less for something they are knowingly paying less for less comfort and fewer perks, not nothing at all.
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Are you claiming that people are being removed from flights due to overbooking with no compensation; no alternate flight, cash, anything?

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I don't think they should be banned from overbooking flights altogether. I just think they should be required to do it a little more honestly.

Instead of putting some disclaimer on everyone's ticket and using some secret algorithm to decide who gets bumped in the event too many people show up to board, just sell "Overbook" tickets. Whoever buys the ticket knows up front that they're buying a ticket for an overbooked seat and that they may not actually get to board. And require them to put the exact priority that seat will get in boarding order when you purchase it. So you can buy overbook seat number 1, or overbook seat number 7, or whatever. The tickets won't sell for as much, since you aren't guaranteed boarding. But the airlines could sell as many of them as people are willing to pay for. If someone is willing to gamble $5 on overbook seat number 50, let them. That, to me, is truly letting the market decide.

The only other restriction I would put in place is that they cannot bump a passenger from a flight (barring some sort of safety issue) once they have allowed that passenger to board.
 
I'm torn on this. On the one hand I do not favor laws for everything, and I resent government over-involvement. On the other hand, people are selfish and corporations are run by people, and not even the magical free market means "anything goes". If this happens, the airlines will have brought it on themselves... just like the eventual UHC we're going to get will be brought on by health insurance companies. So, I voted "I'm open to it", but I lean toward yes, though not wholly. Some random thoughts...

1) Spare me the terms of the purchase now. The thread is about "Should a law be passed that bars airlines from overbooking flights?", not what current conditions are, though current conditions are what's prompting the question.

2) I don't have stats, but I believe that bumping is actually fairly rare, statistically... though I wouldn't be surprised if the airlines are becoming more emboldened and pushing the envelope more in the ever-increasing quest to maximize profits.

3) I believe some of the types of instances we've been seeing lately have been occurring for quite some time, it's just now that the media and populace started to care.

4) If you watch some of these videos, especially the recent Delta example where the flight attendants threatened a family with placing their kids in foster care, that the FAs themselves are feeling emboldened as if they have great and almost unlimited power and they're lording it over the passengers. That's going to bite the airlines in the butt in the long run. If the airlines are smart, they'll reel that back in.

5) IMO, when you purchase a ticket, that IS your contract and reservation to a seat. Period. If you show up, it's your's. If you don't show, you forfeit your money. The seat is still paid for, so the airline isn't losing anything. I do favor a change in law stating that. I don't fly much anymore, but it's always been my impression that most tickets are non-refundable.

6) The only way that an airline should be able to make EXTRA money in the event of a no-show would be to sell said no-show seat to a 'stand by' passenger.

7) Someone in the thread mentioned possibly having a two-tiered pricing, and that sounds doable. If you pay a nominal premium to literally lock in your seat it is your's. If you don't, it's not. But then (provided the locked-in premium is reasonable, 10% max), and you do get bumped, compensation should be limited and consistent... and specified as X% what you paid for your ticket.

8) I don't expect an airline to take a loss on a seat, but if somebody paid for the seat, they're not taking a loss.
 
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molten_dragon said:
I don't think they should be banned from overbooking flights altogether. I just think they should be required to do it a little more honestly.

Instead of putting some disclaimer on everyone's ticket and using some secret algorithm to decide who gets bumped in the event too many people show up to board, just sell "Overbook" tickets. Whoever buys the ticket knows up front that they're buying a ticket for an overbooked seat and that they may not actually get to board. And require them to put the exact priority that seat will get in boarding order when you purchase it. So you can buy overbook seat number 1, or overbook seat number 7, or whatever. The tickets won't sell for as much, since you aren't guaranteed boarding. But the airlines could sell as many of them as people are willing to pay for. If someone is willing to gamble $5 on overbook seat number 50, let them. That, to me, is truly letting the market decide.

The only other restriction I would put in place is that they cannot bump a passenger from a flight (barring some sort of safety issue) once they have allowed that passenger to board.
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That would help.

In your scenario, if a person buys an "overbook" ticket, and doesn't get on, would their ticket be refunded? Would they get any additional compensation? Or, because what they bought was essentially a form of "reverse pre-stand by", they'd have taken their chances and not get additional compensation?

Or, is that just traditional "stand by"?
 
TOJ said:
No matter how many times you say it, you are not buying a seat. You are paying for transportation under certain conditions. Read the damn contract.

If you don't like it, too bad. Find another way to get there.

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like i said, if they can worm out of it through fine print in the contract, then regulation is needed.
 
radcen said:
That would help.

In your scenario, if a person buys an "overbook" ticket, and doesn't get on, would their ticket be refunded? Would they get any additional compensation? Or, because what they bought was essentially a form of "reverse pre-stand by", they'd have taken their chances and not get additional compensation?

Or, is that just traditional "stand by"?
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I don't think it would work if you gave refunds. At least not full refunds. If they got their money refunded if they didn't get on, what's to stop someone (or everyone) from buying a normal refundable ticket AND an overbook ticket for a flight, and getting the other one refunded when they see whether their overbook ticket was allowed to board?

And I don't think it would work if you bump them to the next flight in the day automatically, since that screws with whatever people have bought overbook tickets for that flight. Unless you drop them to the end of the line, but then if you get left off one flight, your chances of getting on another one go down drastically.

I think the only way it works is to basically make it a form of gambling. If you buy a standby ticket, you're taking your chances whether you are allowed to board or not. Your compensation is the fact that if you did get to board, you (most likely) paid a lot less for your ticket than everyone who had a guaranteed ticket did.

So it is kind of like flying standby, which has pretty much disappeared in recent times.

The other thing that could possibly work is if someone paid for an overbook ticket but didn't get on, allow them to credit whatever they paid for the overbook ticket toward the cost of a guaranteed flight later.

So let's say you paid $150 for the #5 overbook ticket for the 10 am flight from Detroit to Las Vegas, but only 4 overbook tickets were allowed to board. You could then use that as a credit to buy a guaranteed ticket on the 2 pm flight, which might be $800, but at least you didn't lose the $150 at that point and you're guaranteed boarding.
 
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DA60 said:
So, if weak travelers get this law past - what's next?
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radcen said:
I'm torn on this. On the one hand I do not favor laws for everything, and I resent government over-involvement.
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natsb said:
Laws are not the solution to events in every news cycle. This is a perfect example of a problem that the market will sort out. Put if a law were passed, it should necessarily include the right for the airline to charge no shows for their full ticket price.
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DA60 said:
NO. There are too many laws as it is. Let the market fix it.
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Bull****.

Know what's AMAZING about air travel in the EU? There are very strict Air Passenger rights that allow individuals to file for compensation from the airline for up to 600 Euro if the flight is cancelled, delayed over 3 hours, you're bumped from the flight and other reasons. The only escape clause for the airline is if the reason for the service interruption was "extraordinary circumstances." Air passenger rights - Your Europe

I myself claimed (non-EU foreign nationals are entitled as well) and received 600 Euros this past March when my flight back to Chicago was cancelled and I was delayed by 6+ hours.

Honestly ... it's a complete and total joke that anyone here is opposed to such laws. Why the HELL would you prefer your travel plans being screwed up with cancellations, late flights and being bumped from flights and receiving nothing for it? How could anyone be that ridiculous? If I buy a $900 dollar ticket from an airline and if that company does not provide appropriate service, I am going to pass a law to get compensated.

Simply put I will always chose this:

Top 10 Airlines EMEA On-Time %
Airline On-Time Percentage
airBaltic 94.39
Finnar 89.52
Austrian Airlines 89.28
LOT - Polish Airlines 88.88
KLM 88.45
SAS 88.21
Monarch Airlines 88.18
Iberia 87.53
Flybe 87.47
Qata Airlines (Middle East) 87.12


Over this bull****:

Top 10 Airlines North America On-Time %
Airline On-Time Percentage
Hawaii Airlines 89.11
Alaska Airlines 86.38
WestJet 85.88
Delta Air Lines 84.46
Southwest 82.12
Virgin America 81.58
American Airlines 80.14
Air Canada 79.46
United Airlines 78.99
JetBlue 78.26

https://info.oag.com/hubfs/Free_Reports/Punctuality_League/PunctualityLeagueReport2015.pdf
 
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