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Which is Worse, Unrestrained Capitalism or Communism?

Which is Worse, Unrestrained Capitalism or Communism

  • Both are equally bad

    Votes: 21 38.2%

  • Unrestrained Capitalism is worse

    Votes: 6 10.9%

  • Communism is worse

    Votes: 28 50.9%
  • Total voters
    55
James972 said:
so?? all agree; that's why we have laws against monopolies. Next???
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Trying to move the goal post does you no credit. Need i remind you of your first statement
everybody knows its an economic system characterized by a few monopolies or one monopoly wherein consumers have no choice about price quality quantity or store hours.
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Which you now change to
we have laws against monopolies
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It's either characterised or it is illegal, which?
 
soylentgreen said:
Trying to move the goal post does you no credit. Need i remind you of your first statement:

EdwardBaiamonte: everybody knows its an economic system characterized by a few monopolies or one monopoly wherein consumers have no choice about price quality quantity or store hours.
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OMG!! I stated that as the opposite of capitalism!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! which obviously it is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
James972 said:
unfortunately the terms capitalism and communism have meaning only in the context of human involvement so you have said absolutely nothing. I'm sure you are a liberal??
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I'm not really sure, although I suspect so.
 
soylentgreen said:
The view of an ideologue. And nothing more than a cliche rather than a well thought out rebuttal to either concept.
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It may be cliche, but every problem either system has encountered in history seems to trace itself back to a human corrupting the system for personal gain of some sort.

The best versions of each system are (or were) those that put in place subsystems that countered corruption, but in many cases those subsystems broke down because they worked against the wishes of individuals who gained power and wanted to maintain it.
OR were badly formed in the first place, because they were designed to be so by similar individuals.
 
The Mark said:
It may be cliche, but every problem either system has encountered in history seems to trace itself back to a human corrupting the system for personal gain of some sort.

The best versions of each system are (or were) those that put in place subsystems that countered corruption, but in many cases those subsystems broke down because they worked against the wishes of individuals who gained power and wanted to maintain it.
OR were badly formed in the first place, because they were designed to be so by similar individuals.
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The build a better mouse trap and someone will build a better mouse problem. Which is where we get the problem with looking at philosophies such as communism or capitalism as being fixed. That problem and your cliche arise only when people start taking the words of marx or smith as being gospel instead of allowing for the fact that these philosophies evolve as society evolve. It is just an easy way of denying both philosophies by saying they do not fit human nature, But in fact it is a denial of the fact that social conditions change and philosophies like this must also change.
 
soylentgreen said:
The build a better mouse trap and someone will build a better mouse problem. Which is where we get the problem with looking at philosophies such as communism or capitalism as being fixed. That problem and your cliche arise only when people start taking the words of marx or smith as being gospel instead of allowing for the fact that these philosophies evolve as society evolve. It is just an easy way of denying both philosophies by saying they do not fit human nature, But in fact it is a denial of the fact that social conditions change and philosophies like this must also change.
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I'm not saying that neither can work.

I'm saying that for them to remain functional, enough of the people involved must watch for issues and stop them, so that they can.
 
The Mark said:
I'm not saying that neither can work.

I'm saying that for them to remain functional, enough of the people involved must watch for issues and stop them, so that they can.
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On that i can agree. It was that use of the cliche that was annoying. It is nothing more than a conversation stopper. I am not accusing you of this, but it is used only as a means of denial without having to explain or think the denial through. Some here use it as a way of denying communism without having to go to the trouble of thinking.
 
rabbitcaebannog said:
Yes, and plenty of crony capitalism exist.
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yes Obamacare socialism is the perfect example wherein business and govt are all mixed up together! Capitalism is when they are separate. Do you understand?
 
James972 said:
yes Obamacare socialism is the perfect example wherein business and govt are all mixed up together! Capitalism is when they are separate. Do you understand?
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The ACA is not socialism, as you yourself have admitted.

Do you understand?
 
soylentgreen said:
But in fact it is a denial of the fact that social conditions change and philosophies like this must also change.
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not really Aristotle stood against Plato for freedom and natural law, and he is still just as correct as he was 2500 years ago. Man has not changed and neither have his social conditions. Do you understand?
 
Tanngrisnir said:
The ACA is not socialism,
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sure it is, it features massive govt control of the industry much like there was massive govt control in housing and in USSR and Red China. Now do you understand??
 
James972 said:
yes Obamacare socialism is the perfect example wherein business and govt are all mixed up together! Capitalism is when they are separate. Do you understand?
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Business has used government to do their bidding for over a hundred years.
 
rabbitcaebannog said:
Business has used government to do their bidding for over a hundred years.
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as I said when they are separate you have capitalism when they are combined you have socialism or crony socialism as in Obamacare. Do you understand?
 
James972 said:
sure it is, it features massive govt control of the industry much like there was massive govt control in housing and in USSR and Red China. Now do you understand??
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So you admit I'm right? Yet again?

YES!

Now do you understand?
 
James972 said:
not really Aristotle stood against Plato for freedom and natural law, and he is still just as correct as he was 2500 years ago. Man has not changed and neither have his social conditions. Do you understand?
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Considering that the greeks kept slaves and thought that only land owning wealthy should be educated or have political power then i would say social conditions have greatly changed since then. Your simply cherry picking out bits and pieces that you can point to that have not changed while attempting to ignore all that has changed.
 
soylentgreen said:
Considering that the greeks kept slaves and thought that only land owning wealthy should be educated or have political power then i would say social conditions have greatly changed since then. Your simply cherry picking out bits and pieces that you can point to that have not changed while attempting to ignore all that has changed.

Aristotle stood against Plato for freedom and natural law and modern Republicans stand against Democrats for the same thing. Nothing has changed you just don't have the literacy to know it. Sorry.
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