• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Is there a difference between legal and illegal immigration to you?

Is there a difference between legal and illegal immigration to you?

  • Total voters
    67
X Factor

X Factor

Anti-Socialist
Dungeon Master
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 1, 2010
Messages
61,616
Reaction score
32,232
Location
El Paso Strong
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Conservative
Or do you see them as essentially the same thing? Asking for your personal opinion here, not what the law is, etc. Attaching poll.
 
As an immigrant myself, no, I don't really care. I think in general people should be able to move and live where they please. If someone isn't hurting me and is just living their lives in peace why should I care?
 
RabidAlpaca said:
As an immigrant myself, no, I don't really care. I think in general people should be able to move and live where they please. If someone isn't hurting me and is just living their lives in peace why should I care?
Click to expand...

That's all and good until you have a country which is a welfare state. Than you are just stealing from people by moving in and taking their benefits.
 
X Factor said:
Or do you see them as essentially the same thing? Asking for your personal opinion here, not what the law is, etc. Attaching poll.
Click to expand...

I have no problem with undocumented people. Some of my closest coworkers don't have their papers. In fact, if you are working in a kitchen as a Mexican in my city, and you HAVE your papers, you are an exception to the normal. Employer's going to E-verify have forced the firings of plenty of undocumented people. But, most kitchens I've worked for do not E-verify.

Also worth noting, every single kitchen I've worked for is understaffed. They are always hiring dish washers and line cooks. They simply cannot keep those ****ty positions filled. I've seen no evidence from my personal life, of immigrants "terking er jerbs". So, I can think of no reason other than a purely ignorant argument, for kicking these law abiding, hard working people out. The wholesale scapegoating of the migrant worker is the bait and switch of a lifetime. People who know what's up, see that the real sucking off the system in a way that ripples throughout society, is done at the Wall St. level, combined with corrupt politicians doing the bidding of their donors. And that undocumented workers taking 10/hour jobs, paying into SSC and Medicare, and boosting consumption in local economies, combined with their high birth rates, that produce more tax-payers, is actually a boon for our society. Plus they make killer salsas.

So, I support a path to citizenship for them, and consider them A-okay. As long as they aren't squeezing people out who foillow the rules, No problems here.
 
Yes, I see them as separate things. Similar to how I see buying a DVD legally and buying a pirated version differently. Similar to how I see going 55 mph in the 55 mph zone and going 65 mph in the 55 mph zone differently. One is legal, and the other isn't. And while illegal, none of those things bother me and would it do it myself under certain circumstances.
 
X Factor said:
Or do you see them as essentially the same thing? Asking for your personal opinion here, not what the law is, etc. Attaching poll.
Click to expand...

Other. Depends on what aspect you are looking at kinda thing. They are immigrants. They differ in how they became immigrants. So whether they are different or not depends on what you are discussing. For example, if you are discussing immigrant assimilation, then no, they really are not different. If you are discussing policy on immigration, then yeah, they are different.
 
I view it as two different things. Personally, I find hispanics to be some of the most generous, hard-working, and delightful people on the planet. I love their colorful culture, their wonderful food, and their devotion to family. I would be thrilled if legal immigration for people from Mexico and Central America was tripled, quadrupled even.

But we as a country simply must know who they are and where they are, otherwise they are forced to steal SS numbers from citizens and legal immigrants, causing chaos in their own tax/financial records, and are exploited for their undocumented status, making them vulnerable to manipulation and forced labor, which hurts everyone in society. Our borders must be secure, but our immigration laws must be loosened for families looking for a better life.
 
Winston said:
I have no problem with undocumented people. Some of my closest coworkers don't have their papers. In fact, if you are working in a kitchen as a Mexican in my city, and you HAVE your papers, you are an exception to the normal. Employer's going to E-verify have forced the firings of plenty of undocumented people. But, most kitchens I've worked for do not E-verify.

Also worth noting, every single kitchen I've worked for is understaffed. They are always hiring dish washers and line cooks. They simply cannot keep those ****ty positions filled. I've seen no evidence from my personal life, of immigrants "terking er jerbs". So, I can think of no reason other than a purely ignorant argument, for kicking these law abiding, hard working people out. The wholesale scapegoating of the migrant worker is the bait and switch of a lifetime. People who know what's up, see that the real sucking off the system in a way that ripples throughout society, is done at the Wall St. level, combined with corrupt politicians doing the bidding of their donors. And that undocumented workers taking 10/hour jobs, paying into SSC and Medicare, and boosting consumption in local economies, combined with their high birth rates, that produce more tax-payers, is actually a boon for our society. Plus they make killer salsas.

So, I support a path to citizenship for them, and consider them A-okay. As long as they aren't squeezing people out who foillow the rules, No problems here.
Click to expand...

"Law abiding"? How's that work when they are constantly, 24/7, breaking a law? Do I get to pick a set of laws that I don't like to ignore? Btw, not all jobs are the same so one set of jobs that won't be filled by U.S. citizens doesn't mean there aren't others that would be.
 
DiAnna said:
I view it as two different things. Personally, I find hispanics to be some of the most generous, hard-working, and delightful people on the planet. I love their colorful culture, their wonderful food, and their devotion to family. I would be thrilled if legal immigration for people from Mexico and Central America was tripled, quadrupled even.

But we as a country simply must know who they are and where they are, otherwise they are forced to steal SS numbers from citizens and legal immigrants, causing chaos in their own tax/financial records, and are exploited for their undocumented status, making them vulnerable to manipulation and forced labor, which hurts everyone in society. Our borders must be secure, but our immigration laws must be loosened for families looking for a better life.
Click to expand...

Immigration is not a way to solve the worlds humanitarian issues... all it does it take away the smartest and driven among the third world countries and bring them here so the cycle continues with no change, with the added risk of our financial systems failing because of the influx of poor immigrants.
 
Fishking said:
"Law abiding"? How's that work when they are constantly, 24/7, breaking a law? Do I get to pick a set of laws that I don't like to ignore? Btw, not all jobs are the same so one set of jobs that won't be filled by U.S. citizens doesn't mean there aren't others that would be.
Click to expand...

They are in violation of no criminal law.
 
Skeptic Bob said:
Yes, I see them as separate things. Similar to how I see buying a DVD legally and buying a pirated version differently. Similar to how I see going 55 mph in the 55 mph zone and going 65 mph in the 55 mph zone differently. One is legal, and the other isn't. And while illegal, none of those things bother me and would it do it myself under certain circumstances.
Click to expand...

Exactly. One is legal, the other is illegal. Legal immigrants are welcome, illegal ones should not be.
 
celticwar17 said:
Immigration is not a way to solve the worlds humanitarian issues... all it does it take away the smartest and driven among the third world countries and bring them here so the cycle continues with no change, with the added risk of our financial systems failing because of the influx of poor immigrants.
Click to expand...

Financial systems failing because of poor people?

I think you meant to say, our financial system failed in 2008 because a bunch of investment bankers grew a housing bubble that popped. Nowadays, our economy is humming along fine, so, I can only assume you went out of your way to take a jab at a non-existent threat.
 
X Factor said:
Or do you see them as essentially the same thing? Asking for your personal opinion here, not what the law is, etc. Attaching poll.
Click to expand...

Legal immigrant is someone who jumped over hurdles and waded through reams of red tape to wander into a courtroom to get work documents.

Illegal immigrant is someone who jumped over a fence and waded though a stinky river to wander in the desert to get a job paying cash under the table.
 
Winston said:
Financial systems failing because of poor people?

I think you meant to say, our financial system failed in 2008 because a bunch of investment bankers grew a housing bubble that popped. Nowadays, our economy is humming along fine, so, I can only assume you went out of your way to take a jab at a non-existent threat.
Click to expand...

:roll: I don't expect you to know anything about economics.
 
Winston said:
They are in violation of no criminal law.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

That said, I think we gain a lot from immigrant workers, in some industries, but it still needs to be done legally and that may involve streamlining worker's visas being paired up with work providers, for those industries who can show they cannot fill their labor requirements.
 
Fishking said:
Agreed.

That said, I think we gain a lot from immigrant workers, in some industries, but it still needs to be done legally and that may involve streamlining worker's visas being paired up with work providers, for those industries who can show they cannot fill their labor requirements.
Click to expand...

Basically, if you do the mass deportations that Trump is talking about, you are going to ruin lives and disrupt employer's livelihoods. They need to go to court, return home, obtain a work VISA, and obtain citizenship within a series of court dates. With the punishment being tavel expense and court costs. Failure to comply would mean deportation, and even a miserable lefty like me, could agree they deserve that then. So, one major barrier to citizenship is English. A timeline to obtain citizenship is up in the air, because you can't snap your fingers and learn English.

I am fluent en espanol, and have often considered reaching out to Spanish-speaking communities that need basic level English proficiency lessons. Right now, I'm focused on political objectives but, maybe I could leave my positive mark on the world in that way.
 
Last edited:
They are two separate things, but I am not anti illegal immigration in an absolute sense. If people are fleeing poverty or crime ridden communities to start a new life in the United States I think that it is a good thing to be open to them. It's a little bit like the refugee argument for me. I just don't believe in slamming the door of a burning house when people are inside. I'm not naive about some crime being able to make it across the border with some of these immigrants, but that's why I would support putting more money into border security. We should invest in processing these people appropriately instead of attempting to build our own great wall.
 
X Factor said:
Or do you see them as essentially the same thing? Asking for your personal opinion here, not what the law is, etc. Attaching poll.
Click to expand...

Is there a difference between buying a candy bar and stealing a candy bar? Hell yeah there's a difference between immigrating legally and immigrating illegally.....basically it's the "legal" part that's different.
 
It's always important and safer to have things documented. If someone's afraid to call 911 cause they're undocumented, or the cops can't catch a killer because he has no identity on record, these are problems

But i have to say, as someone who lives among internationals, i don't see a difference between us. I should be able to visit India any time, provided they know my presence, and vice versa....It's already basically that way with technology. At my internship i could call IT in india in 2 seconds. I could fly there in several hours. I don't understand the need for these physical barriers, other than 1) dislike of the 'other' and 2) wanting preference for high paying jobs.

That 2nd one though has been disappearing for some time and it's questionable that it even benefits this country. Imagine you can compete on equal foot with all of europe and move wherever you want, and in exchange they can do so here...Would it really be so catastrophic? Like i said, a lot of that has already gone on for decades thru imports and offshoring, and now technology rendering so many jobs obsolete or easily competed for online via IC

The first meh, "Give us your tired, poor, your huddled masses"
 
Winston said:
I have no problem with undocumented people. Some of my closest coworkers don't have their papers. In fact, if you are working in a kitchen as a Mexican in my city, and you HAVE your papers, you are an exception to the normal. Employer's going to E-verify have forced the firings of plenty of undocumented people. But, most kitchens I've worked for do not E-verify.

Also worth noting, every single kitchen I've worked for is understaffed. They are always hiring dish washers and line cooks. They simply cannot keep those ****ty positions filled. I've seen no evidence from my personal life, of immigrants "terking er jerbs". So, I can think of no reason other than a purely ignorant argument, for kicking these law abiding, hard working people out. The wholesale scapegoating of the migrant worker is the bait and switch of a lifetime. People who know what's up, see that the real sucking off the system in a way that ripples throughout society, is done at the Wall St. level, combined with corrupt politicians doing the bidding of their donors. And that undocumented workers taking 10/hour jobs, paying into SSC and Medicare, and boosting consumption in local economies, combined with their high birth rates, that produce more tax-payers, is actually a boon for our society. Plus they make killer salsas.

So, I support a path to citizenship for them, and consider them A-okay. As long as they aren't squeezing people out who foillow the rules, No problems here.
Click to expand...

The kitchen happens more often than not even with citizens. I remember being 15 and working at a dish room and i never signed anything and got paid in cash. Why should anyone care if i was mexican or not at that point?
 
Lutherf said:
Is there a difference between buying a candy bar and stealing a candy bar? Hell yeah there's a difference between immigrating legally and immigrating illegally.....basically it's the "legal" part that's different.
Click to expand...

To kind of make my point: does a candy bar's taste change depending on whether it is stolen or not? So if the conversation is about the taste of the candy bar, whether it is stolen or not is irrelevant. Now, it is highly relevant in other contexts, like whether you are going to be handcuffed in the near future for having that candy bar. Context always matters.
 
X Factor said:
Or do you see them as essentially the same thing? Asking for your personal opinion here, not what the law is, etc. Attaching poll.
Click to expand...

Of course I view them as two distinct separate groups.Illegals are trespassers who should be deported as soon as they serve out their sentence of violating our immigration law and what ever additional crime they may have committed while in this country. Legal immigrants are invited guests,some of whom maybe permanent welcomed members of our society.
 
Redress said:
To kind of make my point: does a candy bar's taste change depending on whether it is stolen or not? So if the conversation is about the taste of the candy bar, whether it is stolen or not is irrelevant. Now, it is highly relevant in other contexts, like whether you are going to be handcuffed in the near future for having that candy bar. Context always matters.
Click to expand...

The poll didn't ask about the character of the immigrant.
 
X Factor said:
Or do you see them as essentially the same thing? Asking for your personal opinion here, not what the law is, etc. Attaching poll.
Click to expand...

I've always looked at immigration law this way:

If you ignore immigration law, then does China also have the right to export it's excess population to the USA? If so, we also have no way to control the amount of immigration, and at some point our system will be overwhelmed and we will become a colony of China. Without following immigration law, we have no say in the matter. It becomes like the weather. "It is what it is".
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom