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Julian Assange and Ed Snowden

Heroes or Traitors

  • Total voters
    39
DashingAmerican

DashingAmerican

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Was listening to a talk radio show on the way home and he was having callers on about the subject and am curious as to where DP stood.
 
Assange cannot be a traitor because he's not an American citizen.

My personal opinion is that Snowden is an American hero. He showed courage, bravery, and selflessness. He threw away a great career and life in service of the American people.
 
DashingAmerican said:
Was listening to a talk radio show on the way home and he was having callers on about the subject and am curious as to where DP stood.
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Assange has no legal obligation to hold any loyalty to the US. So, it is impossible for him to be a traitor. Snowden, OTOH, did. So, he is a traitor.
 
DashingAmerican said:
Was listening to a talk radio show on the way home and he was having callers on about the subject and am curious as to where DP stood.
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Life is too complex for simple labels like those.
 
Ok, that aside, is what he did something that needed to be done?
 
Redress said:
Life is too complex for simple labels like those.
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This was basically my first thought. I still indulged the OP and gave a partial response.

But, I really feel that there are trade offs in both situations. People are rarely just good/bad. Complicated scenarios aren't cut and dry. Right and wrong. Situations are paradoxical. Tough choices have unintended consequences. People's interests are prioritized. And someone almost always loses in a whistle-blowing scenario. The DNC is still licking their wounds.
 
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I was going to vote other but I knew that would require a long explanation. So I just copped out and voted that they are both assholes.
 
DashingAmerican said:
Was listening to a talk radio show on the way home and he was having callers on about the subject and am curious as to where DP stood.
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Snowden: I'd perhaps have more sympathy for him if he had limited his leaks to thinks that were actually something whistleblower worthy but he dumped a ridiculous amount of info, way beyond what any reasonable person should find acceptable. I wouldn't necessarily consider him a traitor because he didn't specifically sell us out to our enemies. I classify him as a misguided and dangerous criminal the compromised our security.

Assange: Is not a U.S. citizen so I feel less cares about him. He's really only a middle-man that could probably go away and it wouldn't change the current dynamics. The internet is opening these types of things up. Worry about him is less important than worrying about our apparent security leaks issue.

Also, how did the media get let off the hook here? They've been reporting news based on classified leaks as well so they really aren't much better than Asssange. If it's OK for the media then it's OK for him.
 
I respect what they did, or at least the intent, but I have a pretty narrow definition of ""hero" and neither of them quite meet it. Though Manning gets closer than Assange.
 
Does it matter that we know we could be under surveillance?

Does it matter that Patriot Act is a drastic overreach or have we, as a whole, accepted it as a necessary evil?
 
In Berlin’s Alexanderplatz are life size bronze statues of" whistleblowers" Chelsea Manning, Julian Assange and Edward Snowden are erected. And you know who was behind erecting them? The German Green Party and the activist groups associated with them. The German Green party like all green parties in Europe and around the world are socialist by nature, their views are that the redistribution of wealth is just and fair. It doesn't matter that you spent 6-10 years obtaining a degree, putting off getting married and not reproducing till you could afford to provide for the children properly. It doesn't matter you were left with a huge debt to obtain that education that would be able to land a position that would pay you kindly for your worth. Oh no .... social justice folks want now that you are finally making money while still paying off our student loan debt to pay more in taxes for the one that did not seek higher education and those that did not take advantage of many provided benefits in such things as government provided education and decided to have children before they could provide for them and now pay for what the uneducated often by choice can not provide for themselves due to lack of skills.

The green part of the social justice by the elites is to use environmentalism as a scheme to push global "social justice" where wealthier countries will now be responsible for not so wealthy countries and those countries for decades who have been digging themselves into an economical hole over "social justice" would through the means of "environmentalism" be able to raise more revenues to bail their sorry arses out as would the U.N. as it seeks a world tax to fill its coffers.

Manning, Snowden and Assange are traitors to the U.S. Manning is serving a 30 some year term in prison. Snowden is hold up in Russia, and though Assange is not a U.S. citizen but Aussie born, his actions have been directed at tearing down the U.S.. And now it appears that the U.S. has evidence that Snowden acted in his treasonous act with Assange.

The new AG Sessions is looking to put leakers and Assange behind bars. I so hope he is successful.
 
I've mixed feelings about both of them, and not all they've done is good, but they have each braved great personal peril and adversity to provide Americans with crucial information about dangerous and foreboding overreaches of its government, and the corrupt underbelly of its political processes/machinations through their actions as whistleblowers and provision of sunlight, so I'm 'rounding up' to hero.
 
Snowden is a hero...by the very definition, he IS a hero. Period.

'noun. 1A person who is admired for their courage, outstanding achievements, or noble qualities.'

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/hero

Government trained minions can bitch about it all they want...but - like it or not - by definition, Snowden IS a hero.

Anyone who thinks America is worse off for what he did has not a clue what they are going on about.
Knowledge is freedom. And freedom is what America is all about.
Secrets - other then military - are for the weak and the cowardly.



Assange...not sure. I do think the world - and America - is better off with WikiLeaks.

But he is not American, so he cannot be a traitor to America.
 
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I think Ed Snowden started as a whistle blower when he released information about the government spying on all of us and
the large amount of data that is collected everyday that ends up at the storage facility in Utah. But he went way past that
and caused large amounts of highly classified material that had nothing to do with that to be exposed. He caused grave damage
to our nations capability to keep us all safe. Remember In God we trust all other we surveil.
 
DashingAmerican said:
Was listening to a talk radio show on the way home and he was having callers on about the subject and am curious as to where DP stood.
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When TRUTH is the enemy and those who reveal TRUTH are traitors, sumpin' is slippin'.
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Before Snowden, every American already had been made aware of the super snooping going on brought about due to the war on terror after 9/11. Many people at that time were speaking out against it yet many said they didn't care because they had nothing to hide and if it kept us safe then do it. They knew that the private sector communications corporations had been working with intel to provide information. But with every renewal of the program Congress and the DOD kept increasing the powers of our intel agencies. So much so lately you have seen a pushback from Apple, Yahoo and others for Congress to change the laws so they can better protect their customers' privacy.

Snowden is no hero. What Snowden did was treasonous. He stole government property. He then gave it to reporters all over the world that published it. He helped inform our enemies how our country tracks them and gave them the heads up on how to avoid being surveilled. Now you may be able to make a sound argument that the U.S. government through intelligence agencies has violated the Constitutional rights of its citizens but by sharing that information with the world was nothing but a treasonous act.

Heroes are patriots. Sometimes a whistleblower revealing corruption in government is a patriot. Snowden is no patriot because patriots do not run away seeking asylum in another country.
 
Assange = Traitor. In my mind there is no question.

Snowden? I'm tempted to say traitor, but I admit that the reality may be more nuanced. I am open to a reasonable argument either way.
 
I think Snowden divulged far too much data/secrets to make his essential points.

Assange is a onetime hacker turned Russian cutout.
 
I think snowden should be offered a pardon.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
 
Very interesting how some lefties seem to think Trump is a Ruissian mole or puppet of Putin and yet some of these same people call Snowden a hero. Really scratching my head on that one.
 
Moderate Right said:
Very interesting how some lefties seem to think Trump is a Ruissian mole or puppet of Putin and yet some of these same people call Snowden a hero. Really scratching my head on that one.
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Why are these positions necessarily contradictory or confusing when simultaneously held?

Snowden sought shelter in Russia because that's where he could find it, but was not actually a spy, puppet or mole of the country.

Trump has suspicious ties to Russia which merit further investigation that might feature illicit quid pro quo. Personally I don't think there's a smoking gun yet, or sufficient evidence to call him a de facto/de jure mole or puppet, but believing he is while also considering Snowden a hero wouldn't be cognitive dissonance.
 
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