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Julian Assange and Ed Snowden

Heroes or Traitors

  • Total voters
    39
Surrealistik said:
Why are these positions necessarily contradictory or confusing when simultaneously held?

Snowden sought shelter in Russia because that's where he could find it, but was not actually a spy, puppet or mole of the country.

Trump has suspicious ties to Russia which merit further investigation that might feature illicit quid pro quo. Personally I don't think there's a smoking gun yet, or sufficient evidence to call him a de facto/de jure mole or puppet, but believing he is while also considering Snowden a hero wouldn't be cognitive dissonance.
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He gave Russia our secrets while he was there. That makes him worse than anything that Trump has been accused of.
 
Moderate Right said:
He gave Russia our secrets while he was there. That makes him worse than anything that Trump has been accused of.
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Secrets he didn't already publicly disclose? According to who? Which secrets?
 
Moderate Right said:
He gave Russia our secrets while he was there. That makes him worse than anything that Trump has been accused of.
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True, but what choice did he really have. Snowden did wjat he did out of personal necessity and if obama had given him protection he would not of needed to barter with Russia.

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Winston said:
Assange cannot be a traitor because he's not an American citizen.

My personal opinion is that Snowden is an American hero. He showed courage, bravery, and selflessness. He threw away a great career and life in service of the American people.
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I agree regarding Snowden. I was undecided regarding Assange, but your point about him not being a citizen is correct.
 
Surrealistik said:
Secrets he didn't already publicly disclose? According to who? Which secrets?
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Snowden is a traitor and should be shot. Even the Obama administration called him a traitor and would not pardon him. Putin had no use for Snowden long ago so why do they let him stay? Funny how you guys can call Trump and his aides moles and puppets of Russia with zero evidence but Snowden can be put up by the Russian government and you guys call him a hero.
 
trouble13 said:
True, but what choice did he really have. Snowden did wjat he did out of personal necessity and if obama had given him protection he would not of needed to barter with Russia.

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So, let me get this straight, it is ok for Snowden to steal our country's secrets and release them but if we hadn't gone after him then he wouldn't have wound up in Russia? It was Obama's fault that he wound up in Russia? Maybe Obama should have given him a medal for what he did. And yet you are probably against Trump and his aides for supposedly colluding with Russia, even though we have zero evidence that he did.
 
Moderate Right said:
Snowden is a traitor and should be shot. Even the Obama administration called him a traitor and would not pardon him. Putin had no use for Snowden long ago so why do they let him stay? Funny how you guys can call Trump and his aides moles and puppets of Russia with zero evidence but Snowden can be put up by the Russian government and you guys call him a hero.
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They're not my guys (establishment Dems are generally those who are raving about Trump being a straight up puppet without real qualification).

And until proven otherwise, Snowden has done far more good than bad by exposing factual and systemic constitutional breaches by the government.
 
Moderate Right said:
So, let me get this straight, it is ok for Snowden to steal our country's secrets and release them but if we hadn't gone after him then he wouldn't have wound up in Russia? It was Obama's fault that he wound up in Russia? Maybe Obama should have given him a medal for what he did. And yet you are probably against Trump and his aides for supposedly colluding with Russia, even though we have zero evidence that he did.
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No im not againat trump on that topic at all. As you said there is no evidence that supports the claim that he is a russian plant. I put the people who make that claim in the same catogry as the birthers and truthers. It conspiracy nonsense.

Snowden did something very patriotic at his own personal risk. He exposed the governments betrayal of its citizens by violating their privacy.

I dont know how damaging the secrets were that he shared with russia and im not happy about it. The reality of his situation is that he found himself in need of protection from the greatest superpower in the world. He needed the protection of another super power or he would be dead.

Our allies were not going to protect him. He had no choice but to seek asylum from an enemy of the usa. The only way he was gonna get it was to offer tjem something of value.

Snowden did what he had to do. Put yourself in his shoes. Would you of stood silent when the gov was lying to us. If not, would you just accepted tjat the gov was going to deystroy you gor what you did?

Yes i think the obama administration justice dept should of offered him immunity or obama should of offered him a pardon.

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Surrealistik said:
They're not my guys (establishment Dems are generally those who are raving about Trump being a straight up puppet without real qualification).

And until proven otherwise, Snowden has done far more good than bad by exposing factual and systemic constitutional breaches by the government.
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I would allow people to thank him just before we open the trap door under his feet.
 
trouble13 said:
No im not againat trump on that topic at all. As you said there is no evidence that supports the claim that he is a russian plant. I put the people who make that claim in the same catogry as the birthers and truthers. It conspiracy nonsense.

Snowden did something very patriotic at his own personal risk. He exposed the governments betrayal of its citizens by violating their privacy.

I dont know how damaging the secrets were that he shared with russia and im not happy about it. The reality of his situation is that he found himself in need of protection from the greatest superpower in the world. He needed the protection of another super power or he would be dead.

Our allies were not going to protect him. He had no choice but to seek asylum from an enemy of the usa. The only way he was gonna get it was to offer tjem something of value.

Snowden did what he had to do. Put yourself in his shoes. Would you of stood silent when the gov was lying to us. If not, would you just accepted tjat the gov was going to deystroy you gor what you did?

Yes i think the obama administration justice dept should of offered him immunity or obama should of offered him a pardon.

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I think it is poetic justice that someone who thinks so little of our government winds up living under the repressive government of Russia run by the thug Putin. Got just what he deserved.
 
Moderate Right said:
I think it is poetic justice that someone who thinks so little of our government winds up living under the repressive government of Russia run by the thug Putin. Got just what he deserved.
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How do you feel about what he revealed to the public. Are you ok with secret warrentless surveillance of people. For me that outweighs his crime

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trouble13 said:
How do you feel about what he revealed to the public. Are you ok with secret warrentless surveillance of people. For me that outweighs his crime

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I'm perfectly OK with the country doing whatever they have to do to keep us safe. They can do 24/7 surveillance on me if they wish. They may wind up falling asleep though. I'd love to see Snowden die an old man and be buried in Russia. Much better justice than hanging him.
 
Exposing crime by the government is always a patriotic act, and one the people should be grateful for. It is the government who has acted illegally and therefore it is the government who is the criminals and the traitors.
 
Moderate Right said:
I'm perfectly OK with the country doing whatever they have to do to keep us safe. They can do 24/7 surveillance on me if they wish. They may wind up falling asleep though. I'd love to see Snowden die an old man and be buried in Russia. Much better justice than hanging him.
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What an idiotic statement! In the first place the "country" is the people, not the criminals in government. Second, the government does not give a damn about keeping you safe, you are just a peasant in their eyes. In the third place, if it were not for the criminals in government going around the world murdering innocent people no one would be looking for revenge against us.
Snowden exposed criminals. And he was a patriot for doing so. It is the criminals who are the traitors.
 
jdog said:
What an idiotic statement! In the first place the "country" is the people, not the criminals in government. Second, the government does not give a damn about keeping you safe, you are just a peasant in their eyes. In the third place, if it were not for the criminals in government going around the world murdering innocent people no one would be looking for revenge against us.
Snowden exposed criminals. And he was a patriot for doing so. It is the criminals who are the traitors.
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Conspiracy forum further down.
 
My brief opinion -

Snowden did more good than bad for Americans. He fled for good cause, his self-preservation. CIA Director Pompeo absolutely would like to facilitate Snowden's death.

Assange reminds me of a mercenary, with no known loyalty and available on a "for fee basis". Several women have accused Assange of sexual battery.

With my limited knowledge, I would choose Snowden over Assange as a battle mate.... and Assange over Snowden as an enemy.
 
Trippy Trekker said:
My brief opinion -

Snowden did more good than bad for Americans. He fled for good cause, his self-preservation. CIA Director Pompeo absolutely would like to facilitate Snowden's death.

Assange reminds me of a mercenary, with no known loyalty and available on a "for fee basis". Several women have accused Assange of sexual battery.

With my limited knowledge, I would choose Snowden over Assange as a battle mate.... and Assange over Snowden as an enemy.
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The only thing Assange has in common with a mercenary is that he has no fixed loyalty to any government; the idea he operates on a hired/fee basis is completely unproven and, as far as I'm aware, baseless.

I understand you're probably sore about Wikileaks passing through what appears to be Russian leaks of DNC communications that revealed the latter's internal corruption, but that doesn't make him a mercenary or some kind of cyber-sellsword.
 
Surrealistik said:
The only thing Assange has in common with a mercenary is that he has no fixed loyalty to any government; the idea he operates on a hired/fee basis is completely unproven and, as far as I'm aware, baseless.

I understand you're probably sore about Wikileaks passing through what appears to be Russian leaks of DNC communications that revealed the latter's internal corruption, but that doesn't make him a mercenary or some kind of cyber-sellsword.
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You seem to admire Assange even though he chose to flee Sweden to avoid prosecution for alleged sexual misconduct.
Julian Assange'''s Arrest Warrant in Rape Case Upheld by Swedish Court - NBC News

Not only do I deem Assange mercenary in nature, I also consider him not trust worthy, theatrical and opportunistic.
Julian Assange Net Worth - TheRichest
 
Trippy Trekker said:
You seem to admire Assange even though he chose to flee Sweden to avoid prosecution for alleged sexual misconduct.
Julian Assange'''s Arrest Warrant in Rape Case Upheld by Swedish Court - NBC News

Not only do I deem Assange mercenary in nature, I also consider him not trust worthy, theatrical and opportunistic.
Julian Assange Net Worth - TheRichest
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The dude's innocent until proven guilty. He isn't even indicted, and the prosecution is only at the questioning stage:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assange_v_Swedish_Prosecution_Authority#Accusations

Three of the allegations were dropped, and he complied with an interview request at the Ecuadoran embassy.

His wealth is inconsequential to me so long as it didn't stem from improper sources.
 
Surrealistik said:
The dude's innocent until proven guilty. He isn't even indicted, and the prosecution is only at the questioning stage:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assange_v_Swedish_Prosecution_Authority#Accusations

Three of the allegations were dropped, and he complied with an interview request at the Ecuadoran embassy.

His wealth is inconsequential to me so long as it didn't stem from improper sources.
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Um... yes, no indictment as yet, even after more than six years, but still an active arrest warrant. Do you know anyone else seeking asylum in The Ecuadoran Embassy?

Arrest Warrant For WikiLeaks Founder Julian Assange Still Stands, Swedish Court Says : The Two-Way : NPR

His sleazy nature bothers me, not his wealth.
 
I find it interesting how "traitor" is such a dirty word, especially in the US, when the Founding Fathers were technically traitors.
 
Geoist said:
I find it interesting how "traitor" is such a dirty word, especially in the US, when the Founding Fathers were technically traitors.
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Brings back to memory the saying that if I jumped off a bridge would you jump off too? Just because the founding fathers were technically traitors doesn't mean that it is ok for everyone to be a traitor. If Trump colluded with the Russians you're saying that there isn't anything wrong with that.
 
Trippy Trekker said:
Um... yes, no indictment as yet, even after more than six years, but still an active arrest warrant. Do you know anyone else seeking asylum in The Ecuadoran Embassy?

Arrest Warrant For WikiLeaks Founder Julian Assange Still Stands, Swedish Court Says : The Two-Way : NPR

His sleazy nature bothers me, not his wealth.
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No, but then again, I don't know many (any) people who have as many powerful and influential enemies as Assange does. I don't blame him one iota for fearing unjust prosecution.

And I don't think there are any grounds for calling him 'sleazy'. All we actually know is that the guy was accused of sexual assault, and that's it; we have no knowledge of his guilt, and under rule of law, we are supposed to presume innocence.
 
jdog said:
As usual, you have nothing. That is except your uneducated opinion which is worthless.
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Your conspiracy theories are worthless. We did go to the moon and there were no aliens at Roswell. When you have proof of your conspiracy theories then we can talk.
 
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