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Would you support a rehabilitative incarceration system?

Sohuld American prisons be more like Norway's


  • Total voters
    38
Violent criminals are usually - in my experience - REALLY messed up people. The effort would be wasted on most of them. My experience has been that either you are capable of brutality or you or not.
Some of them could be rehabilitated. But I personally think the vast majority - especially the repeat, violent offenders - cannot.

So, to sum up. My ideas are 100% solitary confinement, MUCH longer sentences for violent crimes and MUCH shorter ones for non-violent ones (throw a non-violent criminal into a prison and almost guaranteed he will come out a much harder criminal) and finally do not waste taxpayer money on rehabilitation of violent criminals - especially repeat offenders.

I agree with you on some aspects. I am 100% against Solitary Confinement -- it is an unimaginable torture used by USA on hundreds of thousands of people.

Norway has good Welfare system, thus people with psychological problems do get free help -- and very few end up in prison.

Most violent offenders were severely abused or have severe mental disorders.
 
Mary Shelly in 1817 realized that any person can become a monster if they are abused like some American Slaves, or Russian Serfs were. Lunatics and paupers also suffered a lot.

Thus she had sympathy for them and described them in the character of Igor Frankenstein.
 
How do you feel about the concept of limiting executions to cases where there is absolutely no doubt of guilt?

Isn't that what capital crimes are? Beyond a reasonable doubt? If you're looking for perfection, you will never find it. It is unreasonable to want it.
 
Norway doesn't have the diversity in cultures, or the problems, that breed criminality like we have here in the US. Their process is of course worth exploring and integrating parts where it can be potentially effective. But, it's not going to work here en masse.

Agree...Norway like the other Scandinavian countries are more closely family originated. Families have a tenancy to stay together in Norway unlike the US where families tend to split to different parts of the country.
 
I agree with you on some aspects. I am 100% against Solitary Confinement -- it is an unimaginable torture used by USA on hundreds of thousands of people.

Norway has good Welfare system, thus people with psychological problems do get free help -- and very few end up in prison.

Most violent offenders were severely abused or have severe mental disorders.

What is a good welfare system?
 
What is a good welfare system?

I do not know -- I am just a private citizen of USA. Governments of Finland, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, have decades of designing and implementing a good welfare system.
 
I do not know -- I am just a private citizen of USA. Governments of Finland, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, have decades of designing and implementing a good welfare system.

Then why aren't you there?
 
Isn't that what capital crimes are? Beyond a reasonable doubt? If you're looking for perfection, you will never find it. It is unreasonable to want it.


Just attempting to find where you stand, whether you are only concerned with possible innocents getting executed, or whether you are just against the death penalty under any conditions. There are cases where there is absolutely no doubt of guilt.
 
Just attempting to find where you stand, whether you are only concerned with possible innocents getting executed, or whether you are just against the death penalty under any conditions. There are cases where there is absolutely no doubt of guilt.

Where did you get the idea that I'm at all against the death penalty? I'm one of its strongest proponents.
 
Utter nonsense.

Canada is more culturally diverse than America (statistically)

You know what? I already corrected you on the comparative crime rate (the US crime rate is MUCH lower than Canada's), but I figured I'd take a look at this one, too.

On what basis do you make this claim?

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Where did you get the idea that I'm at all against the death penalty? I'm one of its strongest proponents.

Good to hear. That's what I was trying to find out.
 
You know what? I already corrected you on the comparative crime rate (the US crime rate is MUCH lower than Canada's), but I figured I'd take a look at this one, too.

On what basis do you make this claim?

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I didn't read your post...now that I did, I am not wasting my time looking through your link for the stats. My sources are clear...America has a far higher crime rate than Canada...especially in violent crimes/murders.

https://www.numbeo.com/crime/rankings_by_country.jsp

All countries compared for Crime > Violent crime > Murder rate per million people

Period...and I will not discuss that further.

You have a problem with the stats I posted - take it up with the sources.


As for your question above.

I said 'culturally' diverse...not 'ethnically'. You do know that race and culture are two different things?

The most (and least) culturally diverse countries in the world | Pew Research Center

From above link:

'A comparison of the Harvard and Goren maps show that the most diverse countries in the world are found in Africa. Both maps also suggest that the United States falls near the middle, while Canada and Mexico are more diverse than the US.'


Now I have already wasted too much time on this nonsense.

Canada has a much higher crime rate (especially in violent/murder crimes) and is more culturally diverse. And I have proven that through stats from UNBIASED sources.

You don't agree...I DON'T MUCH CARE.


Anyone who says that Norway has a lower crime mostly because they have less cultural or racial differences is a flat out ignoramus on this subject to me...and I find it VERY hard to believe that their positions are not due to racist beliefs on their part.


We are done here.

I will read no more on this from you.

This whole question is staggeringly silly to me....like debating if we breath oxygen or not.


Good day.
 
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I didn't read your post...now that I did, I am not wasting my time looking through your link for the stats. My sources are clear...America has a far higher crime rate than Canada...especially in violent crimes/murders.

https://www.numbeo.com/crime/rankings_by_country.jsp

All countries compared for Crime > Violent crime > Murder rate per million people

Period...and I will not discuss that further.

You have a problem with the stats I posted - take it up with the sources.


As for your question above.

I said 'culturally' diverse...not 'ethnically'. You do know that race and culture are two different things?

The most (and least) culturally diverse countries in the world | Pew Research Center

From above link:

'A comparison of the Harvard and Goren maps show that the most diverse countries in the world are found in Africa. Both maps also suggest that the United States falls near the middle, while Canada and Mexico are more diverse than the US.'


Now I have already wasted too much time on this nonsense.

Canada has a much higher crime rate (especially in violent/murder crimes) and is more culturally diverse. And I have proven that through stats from UNBIASED sources.

You don't agree...I DON'T MUCH CARE.


Anyone who says that Norway has a lower crime mostly because they have less cultural or racial differences is a flat out ignoramus on this subject to me...and I find it VERY hard to believe that their positions are not due to racist beliefs on their part.


We are done here.

I will read no more on this from you.

This whole question is staggeringly silly to me....like debating if we breath oxygen or not.


Good day.

^^^^
What a childish tantrum.

I don't give a **** about Norway. I didn't say anything about Norway.

And here:

Canada has a much higher crime rate (especially in violent/murder crimes)

You're agreeing with me and contradicting your earlier post. So, OK, then.

As for the cultural diversity, I asked you on what basis you made your statement, because you didn't supply any.

Now that you have, it's based on opinion rather than any real numbers.

Which is fine, but it's not worth flying into a rage about.

Oh, well. Stamp your feet, bang your high chair, and throw your hissy fit.
 
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Norway's incarceration system is a little different from the US. Its incarceration system focuses more on rehabilitation and reintegration than on punishment and discipline. Individuals may not be sentenced more than 25 years including murder. This may sound like a recipe for disaster but out of 218 countries, Norway had the 12th lowest homicide rate (0.6) while the US was in 108th place (3.9) with more than six times the murder rate of Norway.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

Norway also imprisoned 70 out of 100,000 while the US did 693.

Why Norway's prison system is so successful - Business Insider

So what is good for the goose is good for the gander? Even if the goose and the gander are nothing like each other?
 
We must have the best policing in the world.

Not really. USA has incarceration rate as high as USSR had during Stalin's rule. Maybe USA should adopt a welfare system like Norway.
 
Anyone who says that Norway has a lower crime mostly because they have less cultural or racial differences is a flat out ignoramus on this subject to me...and I find it VERY hard to believe that their positions are not due to racist beliefs on their part.

I agree 100%. Likelihood of a person becoming a criminal depends almost completely on their situation and not on their race.
 
If I had 6000 hours per day to study, I would design a perfect system. But I can not find that time.

For a thousand experts and representatives of Scandinavian governments finding 6000 hours in 1000 person days is easy. Over decades they have designed a perfect system.
 
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