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The Danger of Being Neighborly Without a Permit

Is this a legit way for our local governments to spend their time and energy?

  • Total voters
    19
radcen said:
I've seen some of these small free libraries. It would never occur to me that a local government would object... but some do. Is this a legit way for our local governments to spend their time and energy?
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What bastards...the nerve of those "free libraries". Burn'em all down! Make America Great Again, damnit!
 
I don't think village codes should trump your fundamental right to property... I wonder if homeowners associations have ever been taken to the supreme court.
 
celticwar17 said:
I don't think village codes should trump your fundamental right to property... I wonder if homeowners associations have ever been taken to the supreme court.
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I don't have links, but I believe they have (at least state SCs), and generally, if you sign away your property rights, you're out of luck.
 
radcen said:
I've seen some of these small free libraries. It would never occur to me that a local government would object... but some do. Is this a legit way for our local governments to spend their time and energy?
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The little free library run by John Wayne Gacy could pose a problem. No?

You can check out a book.
...but you can never leave.
 
Chomsky said:
Alright, I think some do-gooders have mischaracterized the problem.

From the article:

"The Leawood City Council said it had received a couple of complaints about Spencer Collins' Little Free Library. They dubbed it an "illegal detached structure" and told the Collins' they would face a fine if they did not remove the Little Free Library from their yard by June 19."

So it seems the structure is the violation, not the concept.

We don't know why the complainers called, but if the structure is indeed against code then the village has no choice but to enforce the code now that it's been brought to their attention.

This sounds similar to the homeowner's association that found the "cop flag" against their code. It is what it is, and regardless of the motivation of either party - codes need be enforced.
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My take, at least the way the story was written, is that the code enforcement is specious, very subjective, and quite possibly something of a "little Napoleon" syndrome.

But be that as it may, my point in posting the story wasn't so much enforcement, presuming it is clearly and definitively against code, but rather the mentality that causes people in positions of power to even want to micromanage everyone else's lives to begin with.
 
radcen said:
I've seen some of these small free libraries. It would never occur to me that a local government would object... but some do. Is this a legit way for our local governments to spend their time and energy?
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No it's not, but the government has to get into everything. And some people have no other events in their lives, so they have to lodge complaints against others doing no harm. It's retarded, there is so much for the government to be concerned about, but most of the time it seems to be coming down against its own citizens for things that are not its business.

Thus is the world the Republocrats have built.
 
Ikari said:
No it's not, but the government has to get into everything. And some people have no other events in their lives, so they have to lodge complaints against others doing no harm. It's retarded, there is so much for the government to be concerned about, but most of the time it seems to be coming down against its own citizens for things that are not its business.

Thus is the world the Republocrats have built.
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I'm with ya, until your last paragraph. I see it as equal opportunity regarding which "side to blame". The reasons, and exactly what they micromanage is different, but they both micromanage all the same.
 
radcen said:
I'm with ya, until your last paragraph. I see it as equal opportunity regarding which "side to blame". The reasons, and exactly what they micromanage is different, but they both micromanage all the same.
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Yeah, I said Republocrats.
 
radcen said:
I don't have links, but I believe they have (at least state SCs), and generally, if you sign away your property rights, you're out of luck.
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Problem is... you cannot buy the property without it...so it's handcuffed... it's a forced involuntary sign.
 
Chomsky said:
Alright, I think some do-gooders have mischaracterized the problem.

From the article:

"The Leawood City Council said it had received a couple of complaints about Spencer Collins' Little Free Library. They dubbed it an "illegal detached structure" and told the Collins' they would face a fine if they did not remove the Little Free Library from their yard by June 19."

So it seems the structure is the violation, not the concept.

We don't know why the complainers called, but if the structure is indeed against code then the village has no choice but to enforce the code now that it's been brought to their attention.

This sounds similar to the homeowner's association that found the "cop flag" against their code. It is what it is, and regardless of the motivation of either party - codes need be enforced.
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If the "structure" resembles the one in the picture - and there's really no reason to think it doesn't - it would seem to me to be a gross misuse of zoning regulations. It's the equivalent of using zoning regulations to ban a mailbox.
 
celticwar17 said:
Problem is... you cannot buy the property without it...so it's handcuffed... it's a forced involuntary sign.
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Not all properties are in HOAs. Some geographic areas are harder to buy into without one, though.

ETA: I equate busybody HOAs with busybody city code enforcement. Just saying the legal aspect is considered that being in an HOA is more of a choice.
 
radcen said:
Not all properties are in HOAs. Some geographic areas are harder to buy into without one, though.

ETA: I equate busybody HOAs with busybody city code enforcement. Just saying the legal aspect is considered that being in an HOA is more of a choice.
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It's harder and harder to find something without an HOA. I can see why the HOA was initially invented because dilapidated property adjacent can affect your property values. But good lord have these fascist little organizations gone too far. I hate HOAs.
 
Cephus said:
It doesn't matter. If it falls under the provisions of the law, then it falls under the provisions of the law. You don't get to ignore the law because you don't feel like following it. If you do that, the courts are going to declare the law null and void because it isn't being enforced. The people can, if they choose, try to amend the law so that it doesn't apply to things like that "mail box". There are systems in place to do that. Pretending the law doesn't exist is not how these things work.
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I wish our immigration laws were as enforced as you insist here!!!!
 
It's absurd, but I can tell you that I'd be in violation of many HOA I've lived under if I put up one of those things. I don't think it would ever get to the municipal, county or state level.

I look at it and think, "Hey, what a cool idea."
 
Cephus said:
It doesn't matter. If it falls under the provisions of the law, then it falls under the provisions of the law. You don't get to ignore the law because you don't feel like following it. If you do that, the courts are going to declare the law null and void because it isn't being enforced. The people can, if they choose, try to amend the law so that it doesn't apply to things like that "mail box". There are systems in place to do that. Pretending the law doesn't exist is not how these things work.
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The article links to a map of Little Libraries across the country. If you search on Leawood KS the library that's the subject of the enforcement action is listed with a picture - it's under Sarah Collins. To call that a structure and claim it is subject to zoning regulations is absurd. It's the size of a large mailbox or birdhouse.
 
Born Free said:
I wish our immigration laws were as enforced as you insist here!!!!
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I wish they were too. Unfortunately, as nations become successful, liberalism reigns and where conservatism builds nations, liberalism tears them apart.
 
Gaius46 said:
The article links to a map of Little Libraries across the country. If you search on Leawood KS the library that's the subject of the enforcement action is listed with a picture - it's under Sarah Collins. To call that a structure and claim it is subject to zoning regulations is absurd. It's the size of a large mailbox or birdhouse.
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Whether it is subject to zoning or building regulations is entirely up to the town in which it resides. I thought you libertarians were all about state's rights?
 
Cephus said:
Whether it is subject to zoning or building regulations is entirely up to the town in which it resides. I thought you libertarians were all about state's rights?
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I agree. That said no sane zoning regulations would apply to such a small "structure." I'd suggest it likely that the regulations here probably don't apply but the town is banking on the homeowner acquiescing because it's the path of least resistance.
 
Gaius46 said:
I agree. That said no sane zoning regulations would apply to such a small "structure." I'd suggest it likely that the regulations here probably don't apply but the town is banking on the homeowner acquiescing because it's the path of least resistance.
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Which changes nothing. Your opinion is noted, it just has nothing to do with reality.
 
Cephus said:
Which changes nothing. Your opinion is noted, it just has nothing to do with reality.
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If I was really bored today I'd read the local code for Leawood KS and see if it really does apply - though of course there's the question of whether the town has a legitimate purpose in applying zoning regulations to mailboxes. But I'm really not that bored today so I'm not going to. I'll just once again note that the situation is in reality absurd.
 
Gaius46 said:
If I was really bored today I'd read the local code for Leawood KS and see if it really does apply - though of course there's the question of whether the town has a legitimate purpose in applying zoning regulations to mailboxes. But I'm really not that bored today so I'm not going to. I'll just once again note that the situation is in reality absurd.
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I don't know. It doesn't really matter because neither of us has any legal control over what they do in Leawood, KS. You're welcome to disagree with what they do and that means exactly jack squat.
 
Cephus said:
I don't know. It doesn't really matter because neither of us has any legal control over what they do in Leawood, KS. You're welcome to disagree with what they do and that means exactly jack squat.
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Yeah I know. Being a libertarian though it does bug the crap out of me that a municipality would regulate such a trivial thing. It's one thing when you have to be concerned with the safety of occupants, or utility hookups or even putting secondary structures so close to a property line that it impacts a neighbor's use of his property. This just seems an exercise in control for control's sake or maybe just shutting up a bunch of squeaky wheels.
 
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