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Would you support a "right to life" amendment?

Whould you support a "right to life" amendment?

  • Total voters
    54
  • Poll closed .
Crovax

Crovax

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This amendment would have 4 specific tenets

The right the healthcare
banning abortion
banning the death penalty
banning assisted suicide

Would you support it?

Its give each side 1 big win and 1 little win, from anecdotal evidence I suspect many conservatives would support this, would any liberals?
 
Well lets just say that nothing like this could ever really happen. Even with the ban on abortion, you're not going to get many Republicans to say there's a "right to healthcare" or who would want to be on record as going against the death penalty.

I'd be against it because I support legal abortion, and I support the death penalty (though I think it's overused).
 
rocket88 said:
Well lets just say that nothing like this could ever really happen. Even with the ban on abortion, you're not going to get many Republicans to say there's a "right to healthcare" or who would want to be on record as going against the death penalty.

I'd be against it because I support legal abortion, and I support the death penalty (though I think it's overused).
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I think that is pretty obvious just wondering if anyone would really stand up for life
 
Crovax said:
This amendment would have 4 specific tenets

The right the healthcare
banning abortion
banning the death penalty
banning assisted suicide

Would you support it?

Its give each side 1 big win and 1 little win, from anecdotal evidence I suspect many conservatives would support this, would any liberals?
Click to expand...

I'm a moderate and no.

I would say yes to healthcare but no to the other three so majority rules and I'm going with no.

Why would many conservatives support this if most are against large government telling us what to do with our lives?
 
Crovax said:
This amendment would have 4 specific tenets

The right the healthcare
banning abortion
banning the death penalty
banning assisted suicide

Would you support it?

Its give each side 1 big win and 1 little win, from anecdotal evidence I suspect many conservatives would support this, would any liberals?
Click to expand...

So as a conservative you want to take away freedoms and prevent even more freedoms in exchange for dumping the death penalty that does not work?
 
I'd be willing to pay for universal HC to stop abortion.
Also, being in favor of the DP, I'd have to let that slide.
 
Crovax said:
This amendment would have 4 specific tenets

The right the healthcare
banning abortion
banning the death penalty
banning assisted suicide

Would you support it?

Its give each side 1 big win and 1 little win, from anecdotal evidence I suspect many conservatives would support this, would any liberals?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't agree with 2-4. A person's right to choose what they want to do with their own body should be a fundamental right. I also support having a right to healthcare because a society is judged on how they treat the poor. Too many people are "I got mine, **** the rest" type attitude.
 
PeteEU said:
So as a conservative you want to take away freedoms and prevent even more freedoms in exchange for dumping the death penalty that does not work?
Click to expand...

Who says it doesn't work? They're dead.
 
americanwoman said:
I'm a moderate and no.

I would say yes to healthcare but no to the other three so majority rules and I'm going with no.

Why would many conservatives support this if most are against large government telling us what to do with our lives?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure many conservatives would see explicitly coding what they see as an implicit right as "large government"
 
Crovax said:
This amendment would have 4 specific tenets

The right the healthcare
banning abortion
banning the death penalty
banning assisted suicide

Would you support it?

Its give each side 1 big win and 1 little win, from anecdotal evidence I suspect many conservatives would support this, would any liberals?
Click to expand...



Not as parsed by the bolded limitations above, no. :no:

The "right to life" begins when one is born, and it is not an absolute right to exist otherwise we would never get sick, be killed, or die in any other way.

No, it is the right to try to stay alive via actions of personal choice and in self-defense. It is also the right to choose how to live, and even when to die.

Thus, in a choice between having a baby and suffering death, injury, or even inconvenience, a woman retains the right to preserve her life (as well as her liberty and happiness too) via abortion.

It is a also a choice in whether or not to keep living. Why shouldn't anyone have a right to choose whether or not to live or die?

As for healthcare? One should have the right to seek healthcare to preserve one's life, but no one should be compelled to try to save your life. That should remain a personal choice of the other person.

Thus in regards to healthcare? If society elects to make it a "civil" right (read privilege guaranteed by social convention), then well and good. Otherwise, whether one lives or dies remains within one's personal ability to try to do so.

So three of the four items would IMO violate individual liberty, and I would not support any Amendment containing them.
 
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Crovax said:
This amendment would have 4 specific tenets

The right the healthcare
banning abortion
banning the death penalty
banning assisted suicide

Would you support it?

Its give each side 1 big win and 1 little win, from anecdotal evidence I suspect many conservatives would support this, would any liberals?
Click to expand...

Banning assisted suicide? That is the liberal stance? That is dinosaurish.

So you want to prevent someone in extreme pain, who will never get better, from being able to end their own suffering and get help to take their own life?

Most people don't have a clue how to kill themselves with as little pain as possible. Often times, they can fail and just make their suffering much greater.
But doctors do know how...and they should be freely allowed to help end the suffering of those who are sane and in agony.

No offense, that is a terrible thing to impose on those in permanent agony AND I will NEVER support that kind of horrific state intrusion.


And banning abortion? Not before brain activity. No.
 
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WCH said:
Who says it doesn't work? They're dead.
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It does not prevent similar crimes. Hence it does not work. Plus the people who were innocent but were put to death... a massive problem (and dont even try to claim there was no such cases..).
 
DA60 said:
Banning assisted suicide? That is the liberal stance? That is dinosaurish.

So you want to prevent someone in extreme pain, who will never get better, from being able to end their own suffering and take their own life?

No offense, that is a terrible thing to impose on those in permanent agony AND I will NEVER support that kind of horrific state intrusion.
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Nothing is stopping them from taking thier own life
 
PeteEU said:
It does not prevent similar crimes. Hence it does not work. Plus the people who were innocent but were put to death... a massive problem (and dont even try to claim there was no such cases..).
Click to expand...

By that definition, no law works
 
Crovax said:
Nothing is stopping them from taking thier own life
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I changed my post.

I would be dead set against banning assisted suicide as MANY times, people who try and kill themselves and fail, make their suffering MUCH greater.
Whereas a doctor can do it right and painlessly.

The state has NO BUSINESS WHATSOEVER with suicide...providing the individual is sane and consenting.


I also strongly disagree with banning abortion before their is fetus brain activity at 10-14 weeks.

I would agree with banning the death penalty and making BASIC healthcare a right.
 
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I could never support something that takes away the death penalty (in certain instances) or someone's right to end a life he feels is no longer worth living.
 
Crovax said:
This amendment would have 4 specific tenets

The right the healthcare
banning abortion
banning the death penalty
banning assisted suicide

Would you support it?

Its give each side 1 big win and 1 little win, from anecdotal evidence I suspect many conservatives would support this, would any liberals?
Click to expand...
Note: I have not read any responses as I write this. I want to give my thoughts then I will read the thread.

You are correct that it gives each side 1 big win, but it also gives each side 1 big loss, and for that reason I *suspect* many people on both sides would oppose it. Politics these days seems to be more about "not losing" something over winning anything. Incremental steps, or getting something positive, hasn't been good enough for a long time. If it's not complete and total victory, it's viewed as a loss.

My thoughts: I would oppose it. I would be fine with healthcare being made a right, but I'd rather excise the negative influences and let it work more naturally. I don't give a rat's ass about abortion, but outright banning to me is too much. I'd rather leave that to the states. I oppose the death penalty, but for reasons of incompetence in carrying it out, not for 'life' reasons. Assisted suicide doesn't even belong in the same group, IMO. That is (should be) an individual choice, and I would make the case that it being a choice makes it closer to a 'life' choice, though that is admittedly a bit thin.
 
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tres borrachos said:
I could never support something that takes away the death penalty (in certain instances) or someone's right to end a life he feels is no longer worth living.
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Nothing in the amendment stops someone from doing it themselves only people from helping/lobbying them to do it
 
Crovax said:
By that definition, no law works
Click to expand...

Incorrect.. the death penalty is a punishment not a law. Hence your argument would be better if it was "no punishment works", and that would be correct and incorrect.

Many people do correct their thinking after punishment, so punishment does work if handled correctly to the situation. Punishment without treatment or rehabilitation wont work nearly as well as punishment with. On the death penalty, the idea was 3 fold.. 1 to prevent people doing the crimes that resulted in the death penalty, 2. to punish those that did commit the crime and 3. of course finally the revenge aspect. On the first part, prevention.. that clearly does not work. People still kill, regardless knowing that chances are they will lose their own lives. As for punishment aspect.. considering the amount of money that is used in death penalty cases, and the pathetic nature of the US justice system (so many wrongfully convicted), then that aspect is extremely costly, but monetary but also morally. Now on the revenge aspect, the death penalty works brilliantly.

This of course does not change the fact that the freedom loving conservatives want to take freedoms away from people, and especially women it seems... tsk tsk.
 
radcen said:
Note: I have not read any responses as I read this. I want to give my thoughts then I will read the thread.

You are correct that it gives each side 1 big win, but it also gives each side 1 big loss, and for that reason I *suspect* many people on both sides would oppose it. Politics these days seems to be more about "not losing" something over winning anything. Incremental steps, or getting something positive, hasn't been good enough for a long time. If it's not complete and total victory, it's viewed as a loss.

My thoughts: I would oppose it. I would be fine with healthcare being made a right, but am I'd rather excise the negative influences and let it work more naturally. I don't give a rat's ass about abortion, but outright banning to me is too much. I'd rather leave that to the states. I oppose the death penalty, but for reason of incompetence in carrying it out, not for 'life' reasons. Assisted suicide doesn't even belong in the same group, IMO. That is (should be) and individual choice, and I would make the case that it being a choice makes it closer to a 'life' choice, though that is admittedly a bit thin.
Click to expand...

That's exactly why ASSISTED suicide would be banned
 
Crovax said:
This amendment would have 4 specific tenets

The right the healthcare
banning abortion
banning the death penalty
banning assisted suicide

Would you support it?

Its give each side 1 big win and 1 little win, from anecdotal evidence I suspect many conservatives would support this, would any liberals?
Click to expand...

I'm Independent. I vote No.

Re Healthcare: I don't believe that people have a right to other peoples services. However I do see a valid reason for the Government to provide healthcare to its citizens as a healthy citizenry means that more people will be able to live better lives and be more productive.

Re Banning abortion: I'm pro-choice. I don't believe in telling others what to believe in or what to do with their own bodies.

Re banning DP: I am pro-DP until such time as our justice system turns from punishment to one of rehabilitation.

Re banning assisted suicide: Refer to what I said about banning abortion.
 
Crovax said:
Its give each side 1 big win and 1 little win, from anecdotal evidence I suspect many conservatives would support this, would any liberals?
Click to expand...
You seem to be working under the all too common assumption that everyone is split between one of two political extremes and that every policy needs to somehow satisfy both.

It seems stupid to lump these four issues together given they don’t actually have all that much in common and each is highly complex and divisive on its own. It seems to me that you’re unwilling or unable to support your position on any of these issues individually so are presenting this “compromise” as a way to get some of what you want.
 
Crovax said:
This amendment would have 4 specific tenets

The right the healthcare
banning abortion
banning the death penalty
banning assisted suicide

Would you support it?

Its give each side 1 big win and 1 little win, from anecdotal evidence I suspect many conservatives would support this, would any liberals?
Click to expand...

About the only one of the four I might be in favor of is assisted suicide and that I would have to think about. It would all depend on the condition of one committing suicide.
 
PeteEU said:
It does not prevent similar crimes. Hence it does not work. Plus the people who were innocent but were put to death... a massive problem (and dont even try to claim there was no such cases..).
Click to expand...

How do you know it doesn't prevent crime?

All trials are subject to mistakes. The vast majority prove to be fair.
 
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