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How do you think Bernie would have done against Trump?

How do you think Bernie would have done against Trump?

  • Bernie would be president now

    Votes: 42 60.0%

  • Bernie would have lost by more than Hillary

    Votes: 18 25.7%

  • Bernie would have done about the same

    Votes: 10 14.3%

  • Who's Bernie?

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    70
Abbazorkzog said:
That's what happens when the corporate media gives someone weeks and months of free advertising...
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Yep. They figured it was a good idea to promote the guy because Hillary would clobber him in the general.

Oops!
 
JANFU said:
He did not have as many mention have baggage. I agree with everything you have posted, excepting the flat tax. I support a progressive tax rate. Single payer is basically what e have in Canada. Some Provinces have fees and most do not.
That said it will eventually change with a fee for service, based upon income levels.

I also support what is called a VAT, Value Added Tax. Basically a consumption tax. Fairest tax of all, if I can say that, as the more you buy, the more tax you pay.
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I dont' want to derail the thread too much, but I have multiple problems with progressive taxes. Also VAT taxes are extremely regressive. For example, the taxes I pay to fill up a tank of gas takes a significantly higher % of my income away than what it would from someone who makes half a mil a year.
 
faithful_servant said:
A HuffPo poll is meaningless....
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HuffPo is merely the aggregator; these aren't HuffPo polls.

faithful_servant said:
Sanders would have failed worse than Clinton did. Almost everyone that would have voted for Sanders voted for Clinton, but not everyone who voted for Clinton would have voted for Sanders. Sanders was FAR, FAR left and that would have alienated lot of more moderate Dems. I think that the Clinton nomination alienated a handful of young and far left voters, but Sanders would have alienated a LOT of moderate voters. Sanders also would have increased the number of people coming out to vote against him, due to his far left ideology. I think that Pres. Trump would picked up both Nevada and Minnesota (possibly New Hampshire, but unlikely) had Sanders been allowed to be the nominee.
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The actual data disagrees with you; independents and the general electorate were far more favourable towards him than Clinton or Trump per pretty much all the polls available. Indeed, Bernie polled better among independents and the general than the Dem party itself.
 
Fishking said:
I dont' want to derail the thread too much, but I have multiple problems with progressive taxes. Also VAT taxes are extremely regressive. For example, the taxes I pay to fill up a tank of gas takes a significantly higher % of my income away than what it would from someone who makes half a mil a year.
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Yes it does. So as you mention we should get back on track

I had posted a thread on this some time ago.
https://www.debatepolitics.com/poll...lement-value-added-tax-vat.html?highlight=VAT
 
faithful_servant said:
He's MUCH further left than Clinton and any other Dem. candidate in the last few decades...
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Sort of. As far as I can tell most Democratic politicians are center right fiscal conservatives that are socially liberal but only give lip service to liberal economic policies.

Kind of funny that universal healthcare and helping the average American is now considered "far left".
 
Surrealistik said:
HuffPo is merely the aggregator; these aren't HuffPo polls.



The actual data disagrees with you; independents and the general electorate were far more favourable towards him than Clinton or Trump per pretty much all the polls available. Indeed, Bernie polled better among independents and the general than the Dem party itself.
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Polls are getting less and less meaningful all the time. I'll take the simple fact that people vote for people that they think will represent them the best over a poll any day.
 
Verax said:
Sort of. As far as I can tell most Democratic politicians are center right fiscal conservatives that are socially liberal but only give lip service to liberal economic policies.

Kind of funny that universal healthcare and helping the average American is now considered "far left".
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Kind of funny that universal healthcare at the cost of helping the average American is now considered "far left".
 
X Factor said:
Do you think he would have fared better, worse, or about the same as Hillary? Poll incoming.
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I firmly believe he would have won.
 
faithful_servant said:
Kind of funny that universal healthcare at the cost of helping the average American is now considered "far left".
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Right. I forgot that in the mind of the American Conservative comes the idea that universal healthcare which every civilized country except us does is actually worse than our current healthcare that is the most expensive in the world and ranks what is it, like 30th in the world?

What more evidence does anyone need?
 
faithful_servant said:
Polls are getting less and less meaningful all the time. I'll take the simple fact that people vote for people that they think will represent them the best over a poll any day.
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The aggregate polls concerning Hillary's lead were actually not too far off; again the EC doesn't work that way however. Aggregate polls have for the most part been fairly accurate.

Beyond that, people also apparently are in broad agreement with most of Bernie's policy points:

Do Americans Agree With Bernie Sanders? (INFOGRAPHIC)

Americans overwhelmingly support Bernie Sanders? economic policies ? so how?d we end up here? - Salon.com (Salon yes, but it's a useful aggregation of several polls relating to Sanders' policy)
 
X Factor said:
It would be interesting, for credibility sake, how Huffington's polls between Clinton/Trump turned out. Like, were they, in hindsight accurate (I really don't know).
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Why? None of the polls anywhere were accurate, because the odds of winning by 3 million votes yet losing the electoral college is so slim. Literally in multiple states it was down to small counties. But winning by say 5 million votes as Huffpo predicted Sanders would, and losing the EC would be impossible
 
Winston said:
Of the data out there, I don't think it's even a question.

I've been accused of not seeing things clearly because of a pro Sanders bias.

I believe it's everyone else who isn't seeing anything clearly because either they're high on an opium-like high from a Trump win or, still shell shocked from a HRC loss. Whenever I show them polling, which Bernie won 99% of the time, they discredit the polls as fake. They say the mighty GOP would've "taken him down", as if the more people heard about Bernie the more they hated him.
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It's more than that though.

Hillary supporters also don't want to admit they made a mistake with her, that they ****ed right up, and were in large part responsible for a Trump administration. It's also a source of a lot of projection among them in trying to fault Bernie's people for Clinton's loss.

Among the hardcore Trump supporters, the idea that someone so anathema to their world views (barring those perhaps who supported him primarily on the back of populism) could trounce their conservative politico of choice is as unacceptable as it is unthinkable despite all facts to the contrary.
 
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Anagram said:
I think he probably would have won, although it's hard to say without a full campaign season of attacks on him. Hillary's loss was so narrow, and there was so much wrong with her candidacy it's hard to see how he wouldn't improve upon it. Especially since he promised a similar level of protectionism as Trump, which might have appealed to enough Rust Belt voters to swing the election.

Buy maybe his socialist policies alienate voters in places like Virginia and Colorado who prefer someone more mainstream ideologically.
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The right never opened their book on him. He's easy to paint red, and even though that doesn't matter to a lot of the under 30 crowd, it would get the entire republican party mobilized. It would be a VERY interesting scenario to run. I would have loved to have seen it. Wish a realistic simulation algorithm existed.
 
X Factor said:
Do you think he would have fared better, worse, or about the same as Hillary? Poll incoming.
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I cannot really decide for a few reasons. I think that Bernie was capable of beating Trump, but he may have had trouble financing the campaign. The other problem he had which may have cost him the nomination is that he focused too heavily on left leaning areas which if continued during the general election would have cost him the election. One of the things he may have done more effectively than Clinton was actually keep policy as the center of his arguments. Clinton spent way too much time and money pushing the message, "I have boobies and he is a dick with a dick." Policy was her strong suit and she completely threw it in the waste bin in favor of personality politics.
 
Bernie, like Trump, is (was) a relatively non-establishment candidate, which I think most people are looking for. Bernie was very popular with liberals and progressives which would give Bernie a very good hold on the polls.
 
Impossible to answer. Trump would have hammered in the fact that Bernie is a so called "socialist" over and over again, which would have possibly scared away some independents/moderates. But I believe many younger voters who abandoned Clinton would have supported Bernie.
 
Abbazorkzog said:
I'm almost certain Bernie would have beaten Trump. But Trump may have been the only candidate he could've beaten (other than Cruz), so there are many levels to what happened in 2016.
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I'd add Jeb Bush in there. Just like pretty much nobody wanted to see another Clinton in the white house, very few people wanted to see another Bush either.
 
Fishking said:
I think he would have won. Bernie had a lot of things going for him and one of those things was momentum and enthusiasm. I barely know anyone who was enthusiastic about Hillary.

Trump had enthusiasm in his support, which weighs heavier than a larger number of "mehs" people.
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SIAP. Bernie didn't even have the support of his own party, the dems. This is evident by the hacked Podesta emails. Explain how he would've won as a third party candidate against Hillary and Trump.
 
cabse5 said:
SIAP. Bernie didn't even have the support of his own party, the dems. This is evident by the hacked Podesta emails. Explain how he would've won as a third party candidate against Hillary and Trump.
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Hillary had the support of her party, and it's the only reason she wasn't primaried out a second time. The party doesn't vote, people do. Hillary generated no enthusiasm and had no appeal beyond hard line Democrats.
 
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