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Do you support affirmative action?

Do you support affirmative action?

  • yes, racial minorities are disadvantaged

    Votes: 13 19.7%

  • yes but it should be based on income, not race

    Votes: 8 12.1%

  • no

    Votes: 43 65.2%

  • not sure

    Votes: 2 3.0%
  • Total voters
    66
Infinite Chaos said:
Very true, I think however any impoverished people who come from the background they do and faced almost universal disdain as lesser than equal, lesser than human will however not make the most of that opportunity and catch up 400 lost years in 60 years.
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fortunately many do. and many have. but only because the federal government made a conscious decision to level the playing field. part of that effort included affirmative action programs
if we are running a 100 yard dash, but white folks get to start a the 40 yard line, is there any doubt why white's will prevail in such a competition. similarly, economic progress is made via economic competition; if the minorities do not benefit from the advantages possessed by the majority competitors, of course they should not be expected to do as well

It's not like all of a sudden, white America decided to look at Black America as equals did they? I'd also ask - do they now? There are significant portions of the US hell bent on maintaining the status quo and finding as many ways to diminish and belittle any progress made by that impoverished people even now. It's culturally ingrained and that takes time and goodwill on all side to truly change.
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excellent point
racism is not as bad as it was. but until there are no longer vestiges of racism present in our society, having the federal government watchful to prohibit such bigotry, remains essential to this progress continuing at a rapid rate. it was the federal government's backing away from defending the blacks' gains after the civil war which led to the long era of jim crow
 
justabubba said:
~
if we are running a 100 yard dash, but white folks get to start a the 40 yard line, is there any doubt why white's will prevail in such a competition ~
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There are so FEW people who really understand this, especially on this forum. Even when studies in other areas show that not so bright middle class or wealthy white kids will overtake bright white lower income kids by the age of 15 - this isn't because of innate superiority but because their parents can pay to give them a 40 yard head start through extra home tuition, support and training. The numbers of people who look at African Americans at the bottom of American society and say "well, they've had Affirmative Action 50 years and look, they're still at the bottom of the heap..."

I don't think many actually want to understand?
 
Infinite Chaos said:
There are so FEW people who really understand this, especially on this forum. Even when studies in other areas show that not so bright middle class or wealthy white kids will overtake bright white lower income kids by the age of 15 - this isn't because of innate superiority but because their parents can pay to give them a 40 yard head start through extra home tuition, support and training. The numbers of people who look at African Americans at the bottom of American society and say "well, they've had Affirmative Action 50 years and look, they're still at the bottom of the heap..."

I don't think many actually want to understand?
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At some point we either need to fix the problem, or else call the losers in the lotto of life losers and move on. What we do now is create victims by neglect and dependence and then mope/worship over them.

It is sick.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
At some point we either need to fix the problem, or else call the losers in the lotto of life losers and move on. What we do now is create victims by neglect and dependence and then mope/worship over them.

It is sick.
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Yes, it is. If the left was serious about fixing this problem, they would start in the communities and with the parents, and not expecting others to pick up where the communities and parents fail.
 
Lord of Planar said:
Yes, it is. If the left was serious about fixing this problem, they would start in the communities and with the parents, and not expecting others to pick up where the communities and parents fail.
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Sure but they would rather campaign on the problem then solve it.

In their warped brains UTOPIA comes faster that way.

Plus, what would they be if they had no victims to mind?
 
Hawkeye10 said:
At some point we either need to fix the problem, or else call the losers in the lotto of life losers and move on. What we do now is create victims by neglect and dependence and then mope/worship over them.

It is sick.
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ok
tell us how to fix this problem
anyone can whine about the situation
show us the way to fix it
 
Lord of Planar said:
Yes, it is. If the left was serious about fixing this problem, they would start in the communities and with the parents,
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and what EXACTLY would they do there to fix the problem

... and not expecting others to pick up where the communities and parents fail.
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then you are willing to allow the children to be victimized only because they had the bad luck to be born from the wrong womb
is that what we refer to as compassionate conservatism?
 
Masterhawk said:
Affirmative action, in theory, is government help geared towards a disadvantaged group. In the US, htis is primarily geared towards ethnic minorities such as blacks and native Americans.
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Wrong. In the US, the largest group of beneficiaries constitute a majority of Americans. We call them "women"
 
justabubba said:
ok
tell us how to fix this problem
anyone can whine about the situation
show us the way to fix it
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First comes the desire.....like for instance D's right now SHOULD be helping to fix the poorly designed OBAMACARE that they made, but they cant be bothered, because the campaigns come before the work.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
At some point we either need to fix the problem, or else call the losers in the lotto of life losers and move on. What we do now is create victims by neglect and dependence and then mope/worship over them.

It is sick.
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Does your country really want to fix the problem? From where I am, it doesn't look like.

Hawkeye10 said:
First comes the desire.....like for instance D's right now SHOULD be helping to fix the poorly designed OBAMACARE that they made, but they cant be bothered, because the campaigns come before the work.
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Answer to my own question, looks like no - better to play political football and blame others politically for this.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
First comes the desire.....like for instance D's right now SHOULD be helping to fix the poorly designed OBAMACARE that they made, but they cant be bothered, because the campaigns come before the work.
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you posted in the wrong thread
this one is about affirmative action
and i was hopeful you would accept my challenge and share with us how you would solve the problem of minority poverty by working with the minority parents and the communities in which they reside

maybe i was too optimistic that you had a perspective to share
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Does your country really want to fix the problem? From where I am, it doesn't look like.



Answer to my own question, looks like no - better to play political football and blame others politically for this.
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Clearly you dont follow my work..I blame everyone, have for a long time.

The D's are wrong here.

You should admit it.
 
justabubba said:
you posted in the wrong thread
this one is about affirmative action
and i was hopeful you would accept my challenge and share with us how you would solve the problem of minority poverty by working with the minority parents and the communities in which they reside

maybe i was too optimistic that you had a perspective to share
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Which gets to why do we have these racial underclasses which gets us to the left and the victim culture keeping people weak and dependent so that they can be milked for votes which get us too..

Look, could you try to follow along, and be at least minimally civil?

tyvm
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Clearly you dont follow my work..
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I don't think I'm going to start until I equally read you blame Trump, Republicans etc on this issue. The issue is not politics but culture and a systematic desire across the board to engage and move everyone up the table.

That's what China did 15 years ago when they decided they weren't going to be at the bottom anymore, that's what Singapore did in the 1950's when they made the same decision.

Of course, some Americans will come and tell me that those minorities and underclasses have low intelligence and it's a waste of money trying - they're the ones I previously explained form part of the resistance to your country utilising ALL of its resources to the full.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
I don't think I'm going to start until I equally read you blame Trump, Republicans etc on this issue. The issue is not politics but culture and a systematic desire across the board to engage and move everyone up the table.

That's what China did 15 years ago when they decided they weren't going to be at the bottom anymore, that's what Singapore did in the 1950's when they made the same decision.

Of course, some Americans will come and tell me that those minorities and underclasses have low intelligence and it's a waste of money trying - they're the ones I previously explained form part of the resistance to your country utilising ALL of its resources to the full.
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We spend gobs of money that we charge to the kids and unborn, spending money is not the problem.

Being stupid is a problem. Not caring about justice is a problem. Victim worship is a problem. Lack of civility is a problem. Being willing to break bones to get to UTOPIA is a problem.

And so on and so forth.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
We spend gobs of money that we charge to the kids and unborn, spending money is not the problem.

Being stupid is a problem. Not caring about justice is a problem. Victim worship is a problem. Lack of civility is a problem. Being willing to break bones to get to UTOPIA is a problem.

And so on and so forth.
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OK, so what's the solution?
 
justabubba said:
it is not racism if that lesser qualified black applicant is still fully qualified to fulfill the requirements of the position

had that black applicant been unqualified against the selection criteria, they could be excluded. however, where there is a disparity of black selections/hires and the black applicant meets the selection criteria, then the black applicant should be hired, even if there are other non-black applicants who are found to be more qualified than the black applicant
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Say what? Do you seriously believe that a less qualified person should be hired over someone that is more qualified....simply because of their skin color?

And people wonder why AA is viewed as being discriminatory.
 
justabubba said:
it is not racism if that lesser qualified black applicant is still fully qualified to fulfill the requirements of the position

had that black applicant been unqualified against the selection criteria, they could be excluded. however, where there is a disparity of black selections/hires and the black applicant meets the selection criteria, then the black applicant should be hired, even if there are other non-black applicants who are found to be more qualified than the black applicant
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Excuse me? A qualified black person "should be hired" over other "more qualified" non-black people? What in the ****?
 
Infinite Chaos said:
You'll help by explaining who the regressive are and how they are causing the issues?
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It's clear who they are, but I mean the people who are inordinately focused on gender and race and things like that, to the point that they will scream racist and sexist at every turn, because they are the real sexists and racists.
 
Cephus said:
It's clear who they are, but I mean the people who are inordinately focused on gender and race and things like that, to the point that they will scream racist and sexist at every turn, because they are the real sexists and racists.
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"They" exist but certainly don't have the same amount of influence or money to affect change as educationalists and foundations who support those writers and researchers to maintain a status quo or even divert funding away.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Say what? Do you seriously believe that a less qualified person should be hired over someone that is more qualified....simply because of their skin color?

And people wonder why AA is viewed as being discriminatory.
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Exactly!!!


Maybe...MAYBE AA was a good idea in the 60's/70's (though I tend to doubt it).

But in 2017...it's absolute nonsense, imo.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Say what? Do you seriously believe that a less qualified person should be hired over someone that is more qualified....simply because of their skin color?

And people wonder why AA is viewed as being discriminatory.
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absolutely
when the prospective new hire is found to be fully qualified
that person has likely struggled in more ways than their competitors to get to the point of being 'fully qualified'
they met the established knowledge/skill/ability expectations
the employer sought to become more diversified
thus the employer hired a fully qualified employee who also helps bring staff diversity closer to the employer's goals
 
Infinite Chaos said:
"They" exist but certainly don't have the same amount of influence or money to affect change as educationalists and foundations who support those writers and researchers to maintain a status quo or even divert funding away.
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If that were true, we wouldn't be seeing so many universities implementing speech codes and safe spaces and catering to the special snowflakes as we do. We wouldn't see the gender law that's going through the Canadian Parliament. We wouldn't have seen SJW ideology on display in Hillary Clinton's campaign. These things are dangerous and the threat they pose are very real.
 
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