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Do you support affirmative action?

Do you support affirmative action?

  • yes, racial minorities are disadvantaged

    Votes: 13 19.7%

  • yes but it should be based on income, not race

    Votes: 8 12.1%

  • no

    Votes: 43 65.2%

  • not sure

    Votes: 2 3.0%
  • Total voters
    66
Henrin said:
If it's my business exactly why can't I be racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, etc in my hiring patterns? Why can't I decide that I don't want to associate with and pay a certain group of people?
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You can as long as you are discrete about it. Apparently government policy favors liars and good game-players. Or sociopaths who disguise themselves better than most of us.
 
Masterhawk said:
Affirmative action, in theory, is government help geared towards a disadvantaged group. In the US, htis is primarily geared towards ethnic minorities such as blacks and native Americans.
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I support the original concept of affirmative action. Not what it has become.
 
Eric7216 said:
You can as long as you are discrete about it. Apparently government policy favors liars and good game-players. Or sociopaths who disguise themselves better than most of us.
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Sure, I suppose that is true. Still, it seems to me that if it is my business and my association that I should be the one deciding what reasons I have for hiring or not hiring someone.
 
Fishking said:
No. It's racist.
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Yes, what it has become is the very definition of racism:



Definition of racism

1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

2a : a doctrine or political program based on the assumption of racism and designed to execute its principles

2b : a political or social system founded on racism

3 : racial prejudice or discrimination
​

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism

Affirmative action today, tells us that minorities are inferior to whites, and need help.
 
Henrin said:
If it's my business exactly why can't I be racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, etc in my hiring patterns? Why can't I decide that I don't want to associate with and pay a certain group of people?
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we've been over this - because it's their city/state and they decided they don't want businesses that discriminate and they have a right to refuse those that wish to
 
chromium said:
we've been over this - because it's their city/state and they decided they don't want businesses that discriminate and they have a right to refuse those that wish to
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Do you mean the elected officials that swore to not violate the first amendment?
 
DA60 said:
You want to fight racism?

Stop ****ing talking about it so much.
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Exactly.

How can we move away from racism when everyone is told it's there? Especially when the ways we are told racism exists, isn't true.

The only way we are to have a colorblind society, is to stop looking at color!
 
chromium said:
we've been over this - because it's their city/state and they decided they don't want businesses that discriminate and they have a right to refuse those that wish to
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Of course this only applies to privileged classes. Some groups have gotten sufficient political power to get this protection while others haven't mobilized sufficiently. It seems ironic that we reward special interest groups with this privilege but not others. A business can kick out Trump supporters, police, gun owners, any political group that the business may not like, and many others. Just not one of the elite privileged classes. My brother has been banned from a store for years. Apparently he scares some people who don't understand mental conditions.
 
TurtleDude said:
anyone here other than me ever litigate a Title VII lawsuit in a federal jury trial? the law states an employer can do something for a good reason, a bad reason or no reason at all but not an illegal reason (i.e. discriminate based on race, gender, religion, national origin, age or in some cases handicap). affirmative action sure violates Title VII if you actually apply the law
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yes. gender based
 
TurtleDude said:
how is favoring a lesser qualified black over a better qualified white or Asian NOT racist?
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it is not racism if that lesser qualified black applicant is still fully qualified to fulfill the requirements of the position

had that black applicant been unqualified against the selection criteria, they could be excluded. however, where there is a disparity of black selections/hires and the black applicant meets the selection criteria, then the black applicant should be hired, even if there are other non-black applicants who are found to be more qualified than the black applicant
 
Lord of Planar said:
Exactly.

How can we move away from racism when everyone is told it's there? Especially when the ways we are told racism exists, isn't true.

The only way we are to have a colorblind society, is to stop looking at color!
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A "colorblind society"? Really?!
That ship sailed over 400 years ago, bro.
 
Lord of Planar said:
Exactly.

How can we move away from racism when everyone is told it's there? Especially when the ways we are told racism exists, isn't true.

The only way we are to have a colorblind society, is to stop looking at color!
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I agree ... now let's go for a Car ride in New York and test that theory out.
 
Henrin said:
If it's my business exactly why can't I be racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, etc in my hiring patterns? Why can't I decide that I don't want to associate with and pay a certain group of people?
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because your business is open to the general public
 
justabubba said:
because your business is open to the general public
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Even so, seems to me that there is still within the business' rights to decline from engaging in doing business with some.

Cannot a bartender refuse to serve someone?

Isn't mandating that someone be forced to serve someone else mandating their labor?

Isn't mandating that someone be forced to serve someone else on par with the government mandating that the electorate be forced to buy something that they may or may not want, may or may not be able to use?
 
Lord of Planar said:
Exactly.

How can we move away from racism when everyone is told it's there? Especially when the ways we are told racism exists, isn't true.

The only way we are to have a colorblind society, is to stop looking at color!
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a great destination, but we are not there

if the government stops looking at color, while the citizens doing the hiring/selection do not, then persons of color are no longer being treated equally. they will again be denied eligibility for selection only because of their color, despite that they meet the eligibility qualifications
 
Masterhawk said:
Affirmative action, in theory, is government help geared towards a disadvantaged group. In the US, htis is primarily geared towards ethnic minorities such as blacks and native Americans.
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We should really only do it one of two ways: colleges admit only the most qualiied based on testing or GPA or some combination of both and give absolutely no weight or consideration to any other subjective consideration......... OR .......... college can admit anyone they want to for any reason they want to.

Arguing about racial considerations when at the same time you support colleges using other considerations that are subjective and not related to GPA or testing is hypocritical.
 
Eric7216 said:
Of course this only applies to privileged classes. Some groups have gotten sufficient political power to get this protection while others haven't mobilized sufficiently. It seems ironic that we reward special interest groups with this privilege but not others. A business can kick out Trump supporters, police, gun owners, any political group that the business may not like, and many others. Just not one of the elite privileged classes. My brother has been banned from a store for years. Apparently he scares some people who don't understand mental conditions.
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are you of the opinion that someone who scares patrons should be permitted access despite scaring patrons
 
justabubba said:
a great destination, but we are not there

if the government stops looking at color, while the citizens doing the hiring/selection do not, then persons of color are no longer being treated equally. they will again be denied eligibility for selection only because of their color, despite that they meet the eligibility qualifications
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Why do people have a right to be treated equally in employment opportunities?
 
RickJames3000 said:
A "colorblind society"? Really?!
That ship sailed over 400 years ago, bro.
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while we are certainly not there today, we are moving in the right direction

not that long ago, to see multi-racial children was a rare incident. not today
 
eohrnberger said:
Even so, seems to me that there is still within the business' rights to decline from engaging in doing business with some.

Cannot a bartender refuse to serve someone?

Isn't mandating that someone be forced to serve someone else mandating their labor?

Isn't mandating that someone be forced to serve someone else on par with the government mandating that the electorate be forced to buy something that they may or may not want, may or may not be able to use?
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Liberals argue that because someone has a business they have agreed to provide everyone their labor, property and association. I have a strong suspicion that they don't actually believe it though.
 
justabubba said:
while we are certainly not there today, we are moving in the right direction

not that long ago, to see multi-racial children was a rare incident. not today
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You guys sure do promote that stuff too. Don't know why to be honest.
 
Henrin said:
So the reason is because the law says so.
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the reason is 'because you are open to the public'

if you make your business private, such that only nazis can shop your enterprise, then you will be on legal terra firma
 
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