• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Is healthcare a right or a privilege?

Is healthcare a right?

  • Yes

    Votes: 36 60.0%
  • No

    Votes: 24 40.0%

  • Total voters
    60
Fortunately, that is not how rights are determined. If it were, a desperate man showing up at your door on a freezing night would have a 'right' to stay at your house. Good luck defending that proposition.

Would I turn someone away into a below zero night? No. At minimum I would drive them to a shelter or somewhere as I could not sleep at night knowing that I turned someone out into the bitter cold.

However, you know as well as I do that for all intents and purposes healthcare is a right because we don't allow anyone to go without life saving care. So its a right. Get used to it. Sorry that doesn't conform to how you want reality to work.
 
Let's say you are in charge of hospital admitting. An individual shows up that is having a heart attack. They don't have insurance, and obviously have no ability to pay for their care. Do you turn them out into the street?

Of course not. You treat him and worry about the costs and expenses later. First things first.

I doubt you would because you would not be able to sleep at night if you did. So guess what, for that reason, healthcare is a right.

I'm afraid healthcare is not a right by that reasoning. The charity of other, treating the man even though he cannot pay, does not make it a right or an obligation. What it does do is demonstrate the charitable actions and decisions of those that make the decision to treat the man regardless of whether he can pay or not.

We might not like it, we might wish people were more responsible, but because we all go to be able to sleep at night, for all intents and purposes it is a right. We may as well as accept that and then we can figure out how best to pay for it.

I'm sorry, but that's flawed reasoning and logic, especially when one is looking at the legal foundation of whether healthcare is a right or not. There have been many arguments and opinions that it is a right, but none so far, at least not that I'm aware of, have made a solid case for a legal standing of healthcare being a right (I may be wrong, if so, please contribute a reference).
 
What about the 50 percent who pay no taxes at all. Aren't they getting a very expensive free ride?

No, because single-payer would be funded by a payroll tax, not FIT. I think you're referring to people who get tax refunds from FIT?
 
Of course not. You treat him and worry about the costs and expenses later. First things first.



I'm afraid healthcare is not a right by that reasoning. The charity of other, treating the man even though he cannot pay, does not make it a right or an obligation. What it does do is demonstrate the charitable actions and decisions of those that make the decision to treat the man regardless of whether he can pay or not.



I'm sorry, but that's flawed reasoning and logic, especially when one is looking at the legal foundation of whether healthcare is a right or not. There have been many arguments and opinions that it is a right, but none so far, at least not that I'm aware of, have made a solid case for a legal standing of healthcare being a right (I may be wrong, if so, please contribute a reference).

My point is that we are going to treat people that need care as though healthcare is a constitutional right, so for all intents and purposes it is a right. Arguing whether its a legal right or not is pointless. What difference does that make if we are never going to deny anyone life saving care?
 
The healthcare market is one of the few examples of a market that is not free.

That's a problem of government; get the government out of the way entirely, and I mean entirely (looking at the ****ed up way our tax code is).
 
For reference:
legal rights
Legally guaranteed powers available to a legal entity in realization or defense of its just and lawful claims or interests (such as individual freedom) against 'The whole world.' Legal rights (like laws) affect every citizen, whether or not the existence such rights is publicly known.
http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/legal-rights.html

Definition of legal right

  • 1a : a claim recognized and delimited by law for the purpose of securing it b : the interest in a claim which is recognized by and protected by sanctions of law imposed by a state, which enables one to possess property or to engage in some transaction or course of conduct or to compel some other person to so engage or to refrain from some course of conduct under certain circumstances, and for the infringement of which claim the state provides a remedy in its courts of justice
  • 2 : the aggregate of the capacities, powers, liberties, and privileges by which a claim is secured
  • 3 : a capacity of asserting a legally recognized claim — compare legal duty
  • 4 : a right cognizable in a common-law court as distinguished from a court having jurisdiction in equity
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/legal right
 
Would I turn someone away into a below zero night? No. At minimum I would drive them to a shelter or somewhere as I could not sleep at night knowing that I turned someone out into the bitter cold.

However, you know as well as I do that for all intents and purposes healthcare is a right because we don't allow anyone to go without life saving care. So its a right. Get used to it. Sorry that doesn't conform to how you want reality to work.

Jeez...don't ever give out your name/address then. It's a nice thought...but if you live in a city, you will have drug addicts, whinos and goodness knows who else knocking on your door every night. Desperate people can be INCREDIBLY moochie when they know you will help them.

If a homeless stranger shows up at my door on a cold night asking for a place to sleep....I would call the cops. They will take care of him far better (and safer) than I am prepared to.

I would never, EVER let a complete stranger into my home or my car...EVER.
 
My point is that we are going to treat people that need care as though healthcare is a constitutional right, so for all intents and purposes it is a right. Arguing whether its a legal right or not is pointless. What difference does that make if we are never going to deny anyone life saving care?

No, I don' think it's not pointless.
Doesn't it serve as the foundation and definition of the electorate's obligations and expectations?
 
That's a problem of government; get the government out of the way entirely, and I mean entirely (looking at the ****ed up way our tax code is).

Complicated tax code is a red herring. Lowering Medicare age to 0 and extending that payroll tax is the easiest legislation in the world.
 
That's a problem of government; get the government out of the way entirely, and I mean entirely (looking at the ****ed up way our tax code is).

You misunderstand me. The healthcare market is largely not free because, with the exception of elective procedures and (perhaps) preventative work, consumers have no choice but to participate. People with grave illnesses are, by and large, not going turn their back on the market and will pay prices that are higher than what they would if the the market were truly free.
 
Jeez...don't ever give out your name/address then. It's a nice thought...but if you live in a city, you will have drug addicts, whinos and goodness knows who else knocking on your door every night. Desperate people can be INCREDIBLY moochie when they know you will help them.

If a homeless stranger shows up at my door on a cold night asking for a place to sleep....I would call the cops. They will take care of him far better (and safer) than I am prepared to.

I would never, EVER let a complete stranger into my home or my car...EVER.

Indeed. There may have been a time when strangers in trouble could sleep in the barn (old west days), but those are long gone.
Seems humans have lost something significant and valuable in themselves between then and now.
 
Would I turn someone away into a below zero night? No. At minimum I would drive them to a shelter or somewhere as I could not sleep at night knowing that I turned someone out into the bitter cold.

However, you know as well as I do that for all intents and purposes healthcare is a right because we don't allow anyone to go without life saving care. So its a right. Get used to it. Sorry that doesn't conform to how you want reality to work.

Um no, healthcare is not a right nor will it ever be. You cannot have a 'right' to another mans labor. You are simply misusing the term 'rights' to conform to the reality you want. So spare me your sanctimony.
 
Um no, healthcare is not a right nor will it ever be. You cannot have a 'right' to another mans labor. You are simply misusing the term 'rights' to conform to the reality you want. So spare me your sanctimony.

Does anyone in this country get denied life saving care?
 
No, I don' think it's not pointless.
Doesn't it serve as the foundation and definition of the electorate's obligations and expectations?

Since we don't deny anyone life saving care, then we are already obligated to pay for it.
 
Everyone is entitled to health and life. Anyone who disagrees with that is a potential sociopath.

Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk

But that does not guarantee that those who could provide that will, or even be available.
 
Jeez...don't ever give out your name/address then. It's a nice thought...but if you live in a city, you will have drug addicts, whinos and goodness knows who else knocking on your door every night. Desperate people can be INCREDIBLY moochie when they know you will help them.

If a homeless stranger shows up at my door on a cold night asking for a place to sleep....I would call the cops. They will take care of him far better (and safer) than I am prepared to.

I would never, EVER let a complete stranger into my home or my car...EVER.

I agree, I am just saying I would not just turn anyone totally out into the bitter cold. One way or another, I would try to figure out how to get them into a shelter or something.
 
Does anyone in this country get denied life saving care?

That's is an irrelevant question because that is not how rights are determined. If you pass a law that says no one may be denied food, you have not created a right. The state has simply bestowed a priviledge on some at the expense of others.
 
That's is an irrelevant question because that is not how rights are determined. If you pass a law that says no one may be denied food, you have not created a right. The state has simply bestowed a priviledge on some at the expense of others.

So now we are arguing semantics.
 
Since we don't deny anyone life saving care, then we are already obligated to pay for it.

One person's or one organization's charitable actions does not obligate the rest of society to do the same.
 
Last edited:
I agree, I am just saying I would not just turn anyone totally out into the bitter cold. One way or another, I would try to figure out how to get them into a shelter or something.

Fair enough...that's the decent way to be, imo.

Having said what I did, about 20 years ago, I was living in a town of about 8,000 in Iowa. One night this foreign-looking/sounding guy and his girlfriend knocked on my door and begged me to take him to the hospital as he had cut his wrist up really bad.
A little voice inside me was screaming to not give them a ride and just call an ambulance/police. But I could not let the guy bleed to death (there appeared to be a lot of blood...but it could have been faked). So I drove them to the hospital and everything was legit. But the entire time I was driving them I was VERY concerned that they might jump me and take my (then) brand new Camaro Z/28 and do god know's what to me.
I was (distantly) secondarily worried he would bleed all over my new interior...hey, I loved that car and blood does not come out of cloth seating easily (apparently). Lol.
 
Last edited:
So now we are arguing semantics.

No, words have specific meaning. You know this. That is why you are so adamant in using the word 'rights' even though it is the wrong term.
 
No, because single-payer would be funded by a payroll tax, not FIT. I think you're referring to people who get tax refunds from FIT?

What about the people who don't get a paycheck?
 
Would I turn someone away into a below zero night? No. At minimum I would drive them to a shelter or somewhere as I could not sleep at night knowing that I turned someone out into the bitter cold.

However, you know as well as I do that for all intents and purposes healthcare is a right because we don't allow anyone to go without life saving care. So its a right. Get used to it. Sorry that doesn't conform to how you want reality to work.

Life saving is not the same as healthcare. Try again.
 
Back
Top Bottom