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I want a National Single-Payer Healthcare Plan, Do You?

Do you want a Federal Single-Payer Healthcare Plan?

  • Total voters
    163
Captain Adverse

Captain Adverse

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I don't like the current ACA, but I don't want it replaced with a version which gives the AMA, Big Pharma, and the Insurance Industry even more money and control over healthcare.

IMO a national single payer program modeled after the best practices of other Western single payer plans, while addressing and correcting the ills of such plans is the best medicine for the people of the United States.

That is what we should ALL be demanding of our representatives in Congress and the White House.

We could start with simply reorganizing Medicare, Medicaid and whatever other programs we have at the Federal level into universal healthcare deducted from our payroll then build on it.

If you DO agree, please explain what YOU would like to see.

If you DO NOT agree, please explain why.
 
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No. The government is big enough and my taxes are high enough. I do not want the government to have more influence over healthcare and I do not want to pay more for other peoples healthcare.
 
Henrin said:
No. The government is big enough and my taxes are high enough. I do not want the government to have more influence over healthcare and I do not want to pay more for other peoples healthcare.
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You are already paying for Medicare, it's part of F.I.C.A. (which also includes Social Security). Medicaid comes out of our general Federal tax payments, with funds also from States.

So, how does it hurt YOU to add a few more dollars to what you already pay specifically for full coverage for you and your family?

I don't think that would hurt any more than what's already being taken out is...and you wouldn't have to spend any money on personal health insurance.

And before you complain about the poor service government health care provides, please note the second part of my statement...address and correct ills of existing plan examples.
 
Captain Adverse said:
You are already paying for Medicare, it's part of F.I.C.A. (which also includes Social Security). Medicaid comes out of our general Federal tax payments, with funds also from States.
Click to expand...

I know. You realize I'm against both of those programs, right?

So, how does it hurt YOU to add a few more dollars to what you already pay specifically for full coverage for you and your family?
Click to expand...

I don't want to pay more for everyone else.

I don't think that would hurt any more than what's already being taken out is...and you wouldn't have to spend any money on personal health insurance.
Click to expand...

You do realize the money would just come from taxes, right?

And before you complain about the poor service government health care provides, please note the second part of my statement...address and correct ills of existing plan examples.
Click to expand...

I never said a word about that. It honestly doesn't even matter to me how good or bad it is as I just don't want it.
 
It is a political impossibility.

I think what could be possible in some future congress would be to drop the Medicare age down to 55 or so. That way you get the most expensive people left in the private system out of it. It would require a payroll tax increase of some kind, but it would be more than offset by premium reductions for everyone else in group plans or the individual market. You take a self insured company. It would not surprise me if employees age 55 to 62 at that company, which might amount to 20% of its employees, account for more than half of the medical expenses to their plan. By moving those older employees over to Medicare, their insurance costs would drop by half or more overnight.
 
Captain Adverse said:
I don't like the current ACA, but I don't want it replaced with a version which gives the AMA, Big Pharma, and the Insurance Industry even more money and control over healthcare.

IMO a national single payer program modeled after the best practices of other Western single payer plans, while addressing and correcting the ills of such plans is the best medicine for the people of the United States.

That is what we should ALL be demanding of our representatives in Congress and the White House.

We could start with simply reorganizing Medicare, Medicaid and whatever other programs we have at the Federal level into universal healthcare deducted from our payroll then build on it.

If you DO agree, please explain what YOU would like to see.

If you DO NOT agree, please explain why.
Click to expand...



The United States is the only industrialized nation that does not have universal health care. The economies of those countries is as strong or stronger than the US. Often, the US loses out on new business because of the cost saving of not having to co-pay.

Unfortunately, Americans have been brainwashed with stories that never happened. Almost every time this debate comes up someone will say "Canadians are coming here in droves" and when challenged will find a clip of people getting off a bus commenting on the difference in the US.
The problem is the video has nothing to do with universal health care, but rather a protest against Health Canada who would not release a ban on a "natural sleep" aid. The protest was organized and paid for by Finlandia Pharmacy in Vancouver. I know. I shot the video for news.

You are also all convinced of some form of death squads deciding who gets treatment and who doesn't, a complete myth drawn out of the mind of an Edgar Alan Poe fan.

The real reason you'll never have it has nothing to do with health care, people's needs or anything else. The real reason you'll never have it is because of banks and the insurance companies they own, the same people taxpayers "had" to bail out in 2008 because they are "too big to fail".
 
Henrin said:
No. The government is big enough and my taxes are high enough. I do not want the government to have more influence over healthcare and I do not want to pay more for other peoples healthcare.
Click to expand...

What evidence do you have that is true?

I ask because I have universal health care. I have never paid more in taxes in Canada than I would have in the US. Our governments are actually smaller than yours.

Where do you get these ideas?
 
Henrin said:
I never said a word about that. It honestly doesn't even matter to me how good or bad it is as I just don't want it.
Click to expand...

No one with your view point ever does...right up until they need it.

When I got out of the Army I didn't realize I had access to V.A. healthcare.

Even today, I don't even use that except for annual physicals, which show I am in great shape.

But a couple of times in my past I've had to go to emergency rooms for food poisoning (damn delicatessens ;) ) and ended up paying unreasonable amounts for treatment. I wasn't there for anything major.

I've been lucky, despite leading a fairly adventurous life. Other's I've known were not so lucky.

National healthcare is a must, if for no other reason than to catch and prevent the spread of new diseases before they reach the epic proportions of like the Spanish Flu. That's my opinion anyway.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
It is a political impossibility.

I think what could be possible in some future congress would be to drop the Medicare age down to 55 or so. That way you get the most expensive people left in the private system out of it. It would require a payroll tax increase of some kind, but it would be more than offset by premium reductions for everyone else in group plans or the individual market. You take a self insured company. It would not surprise me if employees age 55 to 62 at that company, which might amount to 20% of its employees, account for more than half of the medical expenses to their plan. By moving those older employees over to Medicare, their insurance costs would drop by half or more overnight.
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Sorry to say you are right about that.

Someone, insurance companiesw, I don't know, but the concept of universal health care has been so badly destroyed there with on-going propaganda
 
Captain Adverse said:
If you DO agree, please explain what YOU would like to see.
Click to expand...

It's really simple, in my mind. We have entitled basically everyone to health care. You get it when you need it, regardless of money. It's a de facto public good. Public goods should not be for-profit. If they are for-profit, they aren't really public goods, so you can't entitle people to them as if they were public goods unless you plan to fund it like a public good. Public goods should be publicly funded. That's not a conservative ideology or a liberal ideology, it's just obvious and rational. What we have now is a very roundabout and disorganized national health care system that has tied itself into knots and still treats some types of people arbitrarily unfairly and still spends insanely more money per capita than any nation on Earth.
 
It's pretty obvious while watching the republicans try to "fix" Obamacare that it is already about the best stop gap measure you can conjure up given the current system. The only way forward at this point is to either bastardize Obamacare or just do what should have been done 40 years ago which every other normal damn country on Earth has done and implement single payer.
 
Captain Adverse said:
No one with your view point ever does...right up until they need it.

When I got out of the Army I didn't realize I had access to V.A. healthcare.

Even today, I don't even use that except for annual physicals, which show I am in great shape.

But a couple of times in my past I've had to go to emergency rooms for food poisoning (damn delicatessens ;) ) and ended up paying unreasonable amounts for treatment. I wasn't there for anything major.

I've been lucky, despite leading a fairly adventurous life. Other's I've know were not so lucky.

National healthcare is a must, if for no other reason than to catch and prevent the spread of new diseases before they reach the epic proportions of like the Spanish Flu. That's my opinion anyway.
Click to expand...


Three weeks ago I was amid tests for a high heart rate, when I dropped a knife on my foot. I could not stem the bleeding so called 911. They were there in under five, and within two minutes of arriving determined I had atrial fibrillation and five minutes later I was in emerge being attended to. I was released into my MD's care with $18 worth of meds I had to pay for but will be reimbursed and home in time for dinner.

I have never paid more in taxes than I would in the US, and once while considering a job in Seattle determined that after paying insurance I was actually less better off.

There are no death squads.
No one dies while waiting for care.
What you have heard is 95% lies
 
Captain Adverse said:
I don't like the current ACA, but I don't want it replaced with a version which gives the AMA, Big Pharma, and the Insurance Industry even more money and control over healthcare.

IMO a national single payer program modeled after the best practices of other Western single payer plans, while addressing and correcting the ills of such plans is the best medicine for the people of the United States.

That is what we should ALL be demanding of our representatives in Congress and the White House.

We could start with simply reorganizing Medicare, Medicaid and whatever other programs we have at the Federal level into universal healthcare deducted from our payroll then build on it.

If you DO agree, please explain what YOU would like to see.

If you DO NOT agree, please explain why.
Click to expand...

Single payer is dog vomit.

Look at Canada.

You want the best care and lower costs... have health care treated like any business. Or do you think the government would be great at developing computers, cell phones and the like?

I don't understand why people want government, which fails at almost everything (none of the cost predictions for these government schemes/programs have ever come close to predictions), involved with their healthcare.

That 20 Trillion in debt and 65 TRILLION of unfunded liabilities... brought to you by arrogant government morons who obviously didn't know squat. Their "programs" have harmed the nation, and you want to have the state do more???

Facepalm.

Insanity is doing the same BS over and over and expecting a different result.

When will people learn?
 
Fearandloathing said:
Three weeks ago I was amid tests for a high heart rate, when I dropped a knife on my foot. I could not stem the bleeding so called 911. They were there in under five, and within two minutes of arriving determined I had atrial fibrillation and five minutes later I was in emerge being attended to. I was released into my MD's care with $18 worth of meds I had to pay for but will be reimbursed and home in time for dinner.

I have never paid more in taxes than I would in the US, and once while considering a job in Seattle determined that after paying insurance I was actually less better off.

There are no death squads.
No one dies while waiting for care.
What you have heard is 95% lies
Click to expand...

So Americans taxes would go down with Single Payer?
 
Captain Adverse said:
No one with your view point ever does...right up until they need it.

When I got out of the Army I didn't realize I had access to V.A. healthcare.

Even today, I don't even use that except for annual physicals, which show I am in great shape.

But a couple of times in my past I've had to go to emergency rooms for food poisoning (damn delicatessens ;) ) and ended up paying unreasonable amounts for treatment. I wasn't there for anything major.

I've been lucky, despite leading a fairly adventurous life. Other's I've known were not so lucky.

National healthcare is a must, if for no other reason than to catch and prevent the spread of new diseases before they reach the epic proportions of like the Spanish Flu. That's my opinion anyway.
Click to expand...

Then pay for it yourself and leave me out of it.
 
JC Callender said:
So Americans taxes would go down with Single Payer?
Click to expand...

How the **** would I know what your politicians do?

FFS you have one who lies 70% of the time and you believe every ****ing word, I would say under the current situation your question is extremely disingenous.
 
Captain Adverse said:
I don't like the current ACA, but I don't want it replaced with a version which gives the AMA, Big Pharma, and the Insurance Industry even more money and control over healthcare.

IMO a national single payer program modeled after the best practices of other Western single payer plans, while addressing and correcting the ills of such plans is the best medicine for the people of the United States.

That is what we should ALL be demanding of our representatives in Congress and the White House.

We could start with simply reorganizing Medicare, Medicaid and whatever other programs we have at the Federal level into universal healthcare deducted from our payroll then build on it.

If you DO agree, please explain what YOU would like to see.

If you DO NOT agree, please explain why.
Click to expand...

No.
I greatly disagree with a single payer plan for all services.
For inelastic medical needs, yea I could get on board with something like that, but not for all services.

Elastic medical care should be subject to some kind of market forces.
 
Verax said:
It's pretty obvious while watching the republicans try to "fix" Obamacare that it is already about the best stop gap measure you can conjure up given the current system. The only way forward at this point is to either bastardize Obamacare or just do what should have been done 40 years ago which every other normal damn country on Earth has done and implement single payer.
Click to expand...

So the only solution is to let the government take it over?
 
zimmer said:
Single payer is dog vomit.
Click to expand...

Mk. And what's this, by comparison?

total-spending-per-capita.png


You want the best care and lower costs... have health care treated like any business.
Click to expand...

Cash only? Not even a tiny minority of conservatives actually want that.

I don't understand why people want government, which fails at almost everything (none of the cost predictions for these government schemes/programs have ever come close to predictions), involved with their healthcare.
Click to expand...

Even Republicans have consistently expanded (not reduced) the entitlement to health care through legislation. So who's left that you can support politically on this matter?
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
It is a political impossibility.

I think what could be possible in some future congress would be to drop the Medicare age down to 55 or so. That way you get the most expensive people left in the private system out of it. It would require a payroll tax increase of some kind, but it would be more than offset by premium reductions for everyone else in group plans or the individual market. You take a self insured company. It would not surprise me if employees age 55 to 62 at that company, which might amount to 20% of its employees, account for more than half of the medical expenses to their plan. By moving those older employees over to Medicare, their insurance costs would drop by half or more overnight.
Click to expand...

People thought Trump's election was a political impossibility. And yet it happened anyway because people who were committed to change (regardless of whether one agrees the change is good or not) acted to insure is occurred.

Single-payer can happen if people act on it too.

Instead of crying for the ACA, which isn't really working...demand REAL single-payer health coverage from the cradle to the grave. Then keep demanding it until it happens.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
No.
I greatly disagree with a single payer plan for all services.
For inelastic medical needs, yea I could get on board with something like that, but not for all services.

Elastic medical care should be subject to some kind of market forces.
Click to expand...

All medical care that is billed to a third party upholds a standard of "medical necessity," as justified by provider certification that it's medically necessary, so this makes a vast majority of health care "inelastic," and there's no real way for anyone to argue otherwise. Almost everyone feels entitled to medical care when they need it, or even when they think they need it, and they expect it to cost them virtually nothing.

Henrin said:
So the only solution is to let the government take it over?
Click to expand...

Government already has essentially taken it over.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
No.
I greatly disagree with a single payer plan for all services.
For inelastic medical needs, yea I could get on board with something like that, but not for all services.

Elastic medical care should be subject to some kind of market forces.
Click to expand...

Please define what you mean by elastic. :confused:

If you are talking about catastrophic care (cancer, etc.) then perhaps allowing that to be handled by insurance companies might be okay...recognizing that they will try to avoid paying whenever they can finagle it.
 
Neomalthusian said:
All medical care that is billed to a third party upholds a standard of "medical necessity," as justified by provider certification that it's medically necessary, so this makes a vast majority of health care "inelastic," and there's no real way for anyone to argue otherwise. Almost everyone feels entitled to medical care when they need it, or even when they think they need it, and they expect it to cost them virtually nothing.
Click to expand...

I don't care what it's billed as.
We can readily divine that some is realistically elastic and some inelastic.

I do not have any false notions, that what I support will come into existence.
The honeyed song of "national single payer" is waaaaay to strong.
 
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