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Where do you think the Republican Party needs to go ideologically?

Where do you think the Republican Party needs to go ideologically?

  • Move further to the right

    Votes: 5 20.0%
  • Move further toward the center

    Votes: 20 80.0%

  • Total voters
    25
Mentality between republic and democracy

Aristotle does not use the word democracy and republic interchangeably; neither does Socrates in Plato's Republic.

Aristotle defines a republic as the rule of law. "...it is preferable for the law to rule rather than any one of the citizens, and according to this same principle, even if it be better for certain men to govern, they must be appointed as guardians of the laws and in subordination to them;... the law shall govern seems to recommend that God and reason alone shall govern..." Thomas Jefferson beseeched his countrymen to "bind men down from mischief by the chains of the constitution".

A democracy's mentality is that the people are sovereign and have become a law unto themselves wherefore the phrase vox populi, vox dei. The mentality of Despotism, as it can be seen in the Asian kings of the Pharoahs, Babylonians and Persians, Alexander the Great, his successors and the Roman Emperors starting with Julius Caesar, is that the king or Emperor makes the law so he is God. For the Spartan mindset, the Law, the golden mean, is to rule not men collectively or singly as the Spartan King advises Xerxes at the Battle of Thermopylae, to wit, "The point is that although they're free, they're not entirely free; their master is the law, and they're far more afraid of this than your men are of you. At any rate, they do whatever the law commands...". A man's obedience, loyalty, and fidelity lie in the law and not in persons; the Spartan mindset being, "I'm obedient to the law but under no man".

Aristotle notices that a democracy puts the people above the law: "men ambitious of office by acting as popular leaders bring things to the point of the people's being sovereign even over the laws."

When the law loses respect, Aristotle says in V vii 7 that "constitutional government turns into a democracy". And in that situation, Socrates, Plato and Aristotle fear the possibility that "Tyranny, then arises from no other form of government than democracy." Then, democracies are no more than ochlocracies. In more recent times, Huey Long said that when fascism came to the United States it would call itself "democracy".


good ole Huey ............ "a chicken in every pot" Huey ............ still, to this day, there is debate as to which faction actually murdered him

I am originally from Louisiana, one of the most notoriously politically corrupt states ever in the history of the corrupt America

I was down in Baton Rouge a bit less than two years ago; July, 2015

we went to the state capital building (which was a HP Long project) saw the bullet scares from the assassination, checked the Huey memorial; too bad history has yet to completely reveal itself in regard to the Kingfish assassination ...........


gotta love Louisiana; rich in history, good food, good times, and a whole lot of bull s*** 2 .............
 
good ole Huey ............ "a chicken in every pot" Huey ............ still, to this day, there is debate as to which faction actually murdered him

I am originally from Louisiana, one of the most notoriously politically corrupt states ever in the history of the corrupt America

I was down in Baton Rouge a bit less than two years ago; July, 2015

we went to the state capital building (which was a HP Long project) saw the bullet scares from the assassination, checked the Huey memorial; too bad history has yet to completely reveal itself in regard to the Kingfish assassination ...........

ok...
 
Nothing you said has anything to do with Trump, the Republicans or labor. Trump hasn't "united" anybody.


FDR did all that many years ago.

In the days of FDR, the world of politics was not as caustically divisive as it is today. Lately, that is changed. Although, it is true that the Great Depression was moving forward and would probably have never ended with Roosevelt in office absent the onset of WW2.

You might remember that Obama, speaking of a private sector job he once held, said that he felt like he was a spy behind enemy lines.

Doesn't seem like he holds much affection for the folks who provide jobs or the folks who work for a living.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/henrym...-disdain-for-the-private-sector/#3ca481912c04
<snip>
In his autobiography Dreams from My Father, he wrote that he sought “conventional work” to pay the bills until he could realize his goal of becoming a community organizer. This line in the book reveals his mindset: “Like a spy behind enemy lines, I arrived every day at my mid-Manhattan office and sat at my computer terminal.” His rationale? “I would need the money later, I told myself. Organizers didn’t make any money; their poverty was proof of their integrity.”

Leaving aside how utterly nauseating and naive the latter part of that statement is, his own words show how Obama’s worldview differs from the dreams and aspirations of the vast majority of Americans.
<snip>
 
Just about all of that happened in 2010 and I doubt if you know why.

Just as that was 2 years into Obama, 2018 is 2 years into trump .

2018 should be interesting.

Off year elections have been good to the republicans lately. Traditionally they have been good for the minority party.

In 2018, the Dems are defending about twice as many Senate Seats as the Reps.

The math doesn't look good for them at this point.

Still, that's why they conduct elections. Sometimes the unexpected occurs.
 
Conservatism, conservatism, conservatism!

Only if it's actual conservatism, not that neo-con crap that the GOP has been embracing.
 
Right vs Left, really refers to elected officials. All Trump has to do is keep working on getting the economy moving, jobs for the common citizen, end illegal immigration that takes jobs from the common citizen, and work to fix Obamacare, and our export/import accounts with problem countries.

Big job, but one I have faith that Trump is driven to achieve.

The alt.left's hatred of him proves he's on the right track. Working people in functional families go out and have a life and leave the losers behind.
 
This is the opposite of the other poll. Just curious.

IMO, the DNC which lost the elections badly this last November should move towards the center while the RNC actually did so well because of moving more towards the right (for the first time in over a decade) and would benefit by moving even more to the right.

The majority of legal citizens in America wants the Country to return to Jewish/Christianity themed laws, and governing while returning more liberty & reducing the overall size & power of our government.

Both parties seem to be against the last part, and that is very concerning to the lovers of liberty.
 
This is the opposite of the other poll. Just curious.

Pretty black and white poll, so allow me to elaborate.

I think the GOP should be agnostic or atheistic, start embracing evidence, research, science and technology with rational intellectual inquiry and enthusiasm instead of superstition and conspiracy theories, ignore and avoid anything related to controversial sexual or gender orientation issues, marriage, abortion, birth control, promote marijuana decriminalization, be less bombastic and aggressive sounding about use of the military, or about immigrants, find and promote younger leaders, be open about the reasons in favor of free trade, start developing a better and more realistic narrative about the growing necessity of social welfare programs as human labor jobs become decreasingly necessary. In general these involve being more centrist and stealing some positions you'd often only ever hear out of a Democrat. A lot of this involves being libertarian on a lot of issues, but not quite libertarian when it comes to the military, federal budget, or social welfare programs.
 
Pretty black and white poll, so allow me to elaborate.

I think the GOP should be agnostic or atheistic, start embracing evidence, research, science and technology with rational intellectual inquiry and enthusiasm instead of superstition and conspiracy theories, ignore and avoid anything related to controversial sexual or gender orientation issues, marriage, abortion, birth control, promote marijuana decriminalization, be less bombastic and aggressive sounding about use of the military, or about immigrants, find and promote younger leaders, be open about the reasons in favor of free trade, start developing a better and more realistic narrative about the growing necessity of social welfare programs as human labor jobs become decreasingly necessary. In general these involve being more centrist and stealing some positions you'd often only ever hear out of a Democrat. A lot of this involves being libertarian on a lot of issues, but not quite libertarian when it comes to the military, federal budget, or social welfare programs.

How does it makes sense to move towards social programs because people will no longer be required to work? How are you going to fund an increase in social program dependency to such an enormous scale? Are the producers going to cover the entire cost of everyone else? Wouldn't it be better to reshape the economy to not depend on work than to just expand welfare? Furthermore, is the government just going to give people money for nothing? Does any of this really sound like an economy that you want? Why should anyone support moving towards a system that is entirely built on government dependence? Even if you're right that work is becoming obsolete, there is no way that I can see that your idea is the way to go towards a new economy.
 
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How does it makes sense to move towards social programs because people will no longer be required to work?

It makes sense to move toward social programs because people will no longer be required to work. Social Security and Medicare are examples social programs that hand out money to people so that they are no longer required to work (or consume their assets first). The GOP is a huge defender of those (along with the DNC). But the GOP is clinging to older generations and needs to be ready to pivot toward a growing number of younger less privileged voters who, over the course of the next 10-20 years, are going to finally wake up to what's being done to them. The GOP needs to shift its emphasis away from old conservatives living in a past era and be ready to appeal to younger adults.

How are you going to fund an increase in social program dependency to such an enormous scale?

The same way we fund everything else. We could much more easily fund more robust welfare programming if we abandoned the pension model for senior benefits.

Are the producers going to cover the entire cost of everyone else?

Yes. Even if the GOP has all three branches of government for the next 50 years, invariably the producers will continue providing for everyone else, as they have been for decades.

Wouldn't it be better to reshape the economy to not depend on work than to just expand welfare?

In the near-term, and to the extent that's possible, of course, but in the intermediate and longer-term, economic growth and advancement is going to continue to mean embracing new technologies and modes of production that decrease the use of human labor, which tends to be extremely inefficient. It would be good if the GOP didn't play dumb to this. It doesn't strike me as a smart long term political strategy to continue pandering to people who think they can replicate the economy of the 1960s going forward.

Furthermore, is the government just going to give people money for nothing?

Probably. It already does, except most of it goes to people who don't really need it, i.e. people who have lots of assets they could consume instead of getting handouts from government.

Does any of this really sound like an economy that you want?

Ideally no, but a lot of aspects of it are inevitable, and it would be good if the GOP didn't feign denial about it. We can see how they vote and they more often than not they go along with expanding entitlements to things. Even their PPACA repeal bill preserves the very things about PPACA that established health care as more of an entitlement, not less.

Why should anyone support moving towards a system that is entirely built on government dependence? Even if you're right that work is becoming obsolete, there is no way that I can see that your idea is the way to go towards a new economy.

I don't necessarily want to intentionally foster dependence, but it will crop up all on its own, unavoidably, if we embrace future-oriented and growth-oriented modes of production. The readiness to abandon less efficient work in favor of more efficient work is the only real way to grow our economy because it will keep us on the leading edge of human advancement. Promoting economics that "create jobs" is great, but if we cling to a foregone imaginary ideal in which everyone has a stable gainful job and prospers, we're invariably going to be clinging to less efficient means of production, will end up allowing or even encouraging bull**** government jobs, Keynesian jobs (digging up buried bank notes in abandoned coal mines), New Deal-esque make-work, just to keep up the pretense that our own human labor runs the economy and provides for our needs.

The social conservatism crap is killing the GOP. Too many young, educated and intelligent voters flock to the Democratic Party because they're turned off by the constant dwelling on these stupid, petty social, sexual and religious types of issues. If the GOP pivots away from that tired crap, and begins appealing more to science, technology, reason, pragmatism, and finds a credible economic message, one that could be supported and articulated by actual economists, they would sweep the rug out from the Democratic Party. The DNC would fail to have a coherent position on much of anything anymore.
 
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