• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Where do you think the Republican Party needs to go ideologically?

Where do you think the Republican Party needs to go ideologically?

  • Move further to the right

    Votes: 5 20.0%

  • Move further toward the center

    Votes: 20 80.0%
  • Total voters
    25
The Republican party needs to become much more libertarian. Not crackpot libertarian, but classical-liberal, free-market and socially tolerant libertarian.

There's an unmet market for that kind of voter that both major parties have yet to provide.
 
code1211 said:
Interestingly, Trump seems to have finally bridged the gap between embracing labor and embracing employers.

The morons in our press don't seem to get it and see these two groups as opponents locked in a struggle.

The job seekers will not find a job if the job providers aren't there to offer them.

The Democrats and their sycophantic stenographers in the press see the workers as the oppressed and the employers as oppressors.

This is not different than seeing the people who eat apples as oppressed and the people who grow apples as oppressors.

If nobody grows the apples, nobody can eat the apples.

If nobody grows the jobs, nobody can work the jobs.

Trump has finally provided the logical link that the jobs creators and the jobs fillers are working TOGETHER. You can't get a job if there are no jobs to get.

The folks in the press still see this in the way that Marx presented it, but the world reality is now embraced by the population.

As long as the Democrats and the press are gripped by the Marxist description of the world, they will not "get it", meaning, understand Trump's appeal.
Click to expand...

A really deflective post. Trump visiting with labor groups was a very good sign. Now what he does as a followup is going to be very interesting, but thus far his appointments do not seem to be those who are known for favoring labor in this country, so Trump seems to be talking out of both sides of his mouth at this point.

Labor is up and coming once again and the more pressure that anti labor groups, politicians and the corporate put on labor issue, the stronger the resistance and demonstrations are going to get; it's a fact of human nature and American history, thus my prediction.

Which party do you think will pick up the torch for the American middle class?
 
jet57 said:
A really deflective post. Trump visiting with labor groups was a very good sign. Now what he does as a followup is going to be very interesting, but thus far his appointments do not seem to be those who are known for favoring labor in this country, so Trump seems to be talking out of both sides of his mouth at this point.

Labor is up and coming once again and the more pressure that anti labor groups, politicians and the corporate put on labor issue, the stronger the resistance and demonstrations are going to get; it's a fact of human nature and American history, thus my prediction.

Which party do you think will pick up the torch for the American middle class?
Click to expand...

That torch was already picked up.

The Trumpsters are currently holding that torch. Trump defeated both political parties to win the White House.

He is currently swimming in the sewage with the party elites to pass his agenda.

This is a very interesting time in the political world here and around here.

Every monolithic political establishment opposes Trump. This is true here and around the world.

That's good enough for me. Flush the old ways. It's time for a change.

Neither political party is a friend of anyone outside the Washington establishment.
 
code1211 said:
That torch was already picked up.

The Trumpsters are currently holding that torch. Trump defeated both political parties to win the White House.

He is currently swimming in the sewage with the party elites to pass his agenda.

This is a very interesting time in the political world here and around here.

Every monolithic political establishment opposes Trump. This is true here and around the world.

That's good enough for me. Flush the old ways. It's time for a change.

Neither political party is a friend of anyone outside the Washington establishment.
Click to expand...

No, it hasn't been picked up by Trump at all. He had a meeting with companies and labor. That's not a ringing endorsement of labor. The only thing he said to labor was that they were going to be busy with the infrastructure rebuild. Trump certainly is in his own sewage, but that's another subject.

The people and organizations, like British Parliament that oppose Trump are very old and internationally respected. I should add that, as I'm sure you're aware, it's not Trump perse that is being opposed, but rather his bombastic, immature and divisive lying behavior that is opposed. Trump hasn't done anything yet that would lead people to believe that he's capable of working toward the best interest of the US and the world.

As soon as Trump can star behaving like an adult and showing some respectability adn good action, then can wait for a change.

Back to point, neither Trump OR the Republican party have shown any involving of being pro labor by any standard.

The Democrats are just weak and stupid.
 
apdst said:
The Republicans have dominated every election cycle since 2010. We took the national, state and local levels.
Click to expand...

And yet you lost in 2012
 
code1211 said:
What are you talking about?

Republicans control a majority of State Houses, Governorships, the Senate, the House and the White House.

Are you the Black Night?

Click to expand...

Perhaps you need to re-read my post again. But hey, I hope your political party continues on the path they are on thinking with Trump that they have some massive Mandate to push whatever right wing agenda that they want.
 
Chips said:
Honestly, it depends upon what their goal is:

-If the goal is to win as many elections as practical in the short term, then the hyperbolic-right trajectory seems to be working a bit.

-If the goal is long-term party stability and actual control of government, they need to follow businesses toward the center.

Thing is, they don't even need to call it 'towards the center,' because they can literally just redefine their position and incorporate the goals of younger generations in to a new definition of republicanism.
Click to expand...

So basically you want them to be what they were before the tea party ever came to pass and their base forced them back to where they wanted them to be.
 
NIMBY said:
I gave him the proof in my post #14 but he won't look at the 2012 clicks .
Click to expand...

I seem to remember a lot of them crying about how "socialism" won in 2012, and now suddenly they are claiming they won? I guess the Republicans are socialists then. Who knew!
 
Puigb said:
I seem to remember a lot of them crying about how "socialism" won in 2012, and now suddenly they are claiming they won? I guess the Republicans are socialists then. Who knew!
Click to expand...

Why would republicans conduct an "autopsy" after the 2012 election if they won?

As for DEMs, where is there autopsy after getting creamed in 2010, 2014 and 2016?

I will add that trump stupidly going after Obama will help bring back the 2008 coalition .
 
NIMBY said:
Why would republicans conduct an "autopsy" after the 2012 election if they won?

As for DEMs, where is there autopsy after getting creamed in 2010, 2014 and 2016?

I will add that trump stupidly going after Obama will help bring back the 2008 coalition .
Click to expand...

well not don't see that if in the current far left wing turn, if they return to center then its a good chance
 
Master PO said:
well not don't see that if in the current far left wing turn, if they return to center then its a good chance
Click to expand...

How do you think GOP turnout will be in 2018 with trump's first masterful 45 days ?
 
NIMBY said:
Why would republicans conduct an "autopsy" after the 2012 election if they won?

As for DEMs, where is there autopsy after getting creamed in 2010, 2014 and 2016?

I will add that trump stupidly going after Obama will help bring back the 2008 coalition .
Click to expand...

Trump was a terrible candidate, and is already proving himself to be a terrible president.

The backlash is already there. I think it's possible we may see another Democrat president in 2020, provided the Democrats don't screw up again and force another hated candidate down the voters throats.
 
NIMBY said:
How do you think GOP turnout will be in 2018 with trump's first masterful 45 days ?
Click to expand...

its going to take more then 45 days, before his address to congress the public had a different view of him then after it.

if he abandons his promises, if he proves he cannot lead the republicans and they in return prove they are incapable of getting what the people who voted for trump want done then the democrats will succeed in recapturing the congress.
 
Perotista said:
I would say 2010 and 2014 were disasters for the Democrats, but not 2012 and perhaps 2016 if one get past the White House, pretty darn close. I haven't delved into state legislative races outside of a glance every once in a long while. In 2016 Clinton did win the popular vote by close to 3 million, the Democrats did pick up 2 senate seats and 6 house seats. Governors wise Missouri, Vermont and New Hampshire switched to the Republicans, North Carolina went Democratic. 2016 certainly wasn't a wipe out although the lost of the presidency might make it seem so. But 2016 basically showed both parties at relatively even strength. What this portrays to 2018 is anyone's guess at the moment. But if Trump remains as unpopular as he is, I would expect big Democratic gains in the House, the numbers are against the Democrats in the senate. As for governors, you're the expert there.

History shows that in the first mid term the party that holds the white house loses seats in congress, sometimes rather big as happened in 1954, 1966, 1970, 1978, 1982, 1990, 1994 and 2010. 9-11 pushed Bush's first mid term back to his second mid term where he lost 33 seats. But every president since Eisenhower through today lost seats in congress in their first mid term with the exception of the second Bush. His first mid term loses pushed back 4 years due to 9-11.

Right now the two parties are fairly even in both being disliked by over 50% of all Americans and in the strength of their base. The strength of each party is at 30% each of the total electorate with independents making up the remaining 40%. But since the inauguration independents lean Democrat has increased from being even with independents lean Republican on election to an advantage of 18-12 over independents lean Republican with 10% of the 40% being what I term pure or true independents with no leans. So today the numbers point to a good Democratic 2018 election. But that is so far off and these numbers so dynamic, they mean little to nothing today. Just give us an idea where things stand. But a look at Trump's job approval numbers will tell you that.
Click to expand...

Watching Big Ten Wrestling on BTN so hard to keep up with DP and all the trump threads.

As for governors, the GOP has 27 up in 2018, 14 term limited. The GOP has 68 of 99 state houses but some don't go off in 2018.

The DNC better get busy on state legislatures in the next two terms before they do the state and federal remaps in 2021 .
 
NIMBY said:
Watching Big Ten Wrestling on BTN so hard to keep up with DP and all the trump threads.

As for governors, the GOP has 27 up in 2018, 14 term limited. The GOP has 68 of 99 state houses but some don't go off in 2018.

The DNC better get busy on state legislatures in the next two terms before they do the state and federal remaps in 2021 .
Click to expand...

While I agree that if the DNC wants to halt a lot of Republican gerrymandering, it does need to get busy. I do think Trump is over playing his hand so far, so the DNC might not have to do too much. We'll have to wait to see if there is a backlash against Trump and if so, how much. But at the moment I do expect one.

Independents helped elect Trump going for him 46-42 with 12% voting third party. The mid terms won't have a third party choice with the exception of a couple of senate races. A libertarian always runs here in Georgia, but I don't think we up this time. the reason I pointed out independents is Trump is standing at 39% favorable, 50% unfavorable among them. There will also be no Hillary Clinton for independents to vote against or to dislike more than Trump.

Although the kicker is among independents and independents only, they give congressional Democrats only a 19% favorable vs. 52% unfavorable. Republican congress gets a 22% favorable vs. a 50% unfavorable. Pretty much even. But I think 2018 will be more of a referendum on Trump than any congressman or senator. At least that is how it is shaping up now. Much like 2010 was a referendum on Obama and Obamacare, 2018 will be on Trump. How much coat tails the anti-Trump movement will have, remains to be seen. But I think it is there.

But there may be a problem for the Democrats, they are beginning to be seen being everything anti-Trump. This is starting to show up in the polls and the majority of Americans don't like it. If Trump and the Republicans plays it right, you might see another Truman like campaign in 2018 against the Democrats in congress. Way to early to tell, bit there is a bit pitfall in being everything anti-Trump.
 
jet57 said:
No, it hasn't been picked up by Trump at all. He had a meeting with companies and labor. That's not a ringing endorsement of labor. The only thing he said to labor was that they were going to be busy with the infrastructure rebuild. Trump certainly is in his own sewage, but that's another subject.

The people and organizations, like British Parliament that oppose Trump are very old and internationally respected. I should add that, as I'm sure you're aware, it's not Trump perse that is being opposed, but rather his bombastic, immature and divisive lying behavior that is opposed. Trump hasn't done anything yet that would lead people to believe that he's capable of working toward the best interest of the US and the world.

As soon as Trump can star behaving like an adult and showing some respectability adn good action, then can wait for a change.

Back to point, neither Trump OR the Republican party have shown any involving of being pro labor by any standard.

The Democrats are just weak and stupid.
Click to expand...

I'll give you that last point.

Trump is trying to unite the business community, that is, labor and ownership. NO POLITICAL PARTY OR PERSON HAS EVER DONE THIS IN THE USA.

I said in a different post that jobs and apples could be compared in an analogy.

Democrats once said they loved workers and hated the fat cats that employed them.

Assume that apples are jobs.

What the democrats were saying, in effect, was that they loved it when people had good apples, but would work relentlessly to stop the orchard owners from growing apples.

People who need jobs can't get them if the people who create jobs stop doing so. Whether they stop by their own choice or stop because their efforts are blocked, the number of jobs is not growing.

Trump is telling people around the world that they need to pay up. If you were getting a free ride and suddenly the tickets cost money, you'd complain, too. So are the folks that have been bleeding us.
 
Puigb said:
Perhaps you need to re-read my post again. But hey, I hope your political party continues on the path they are on thinking with Trump that they have some massive Mandate to push whatever right wing agenda that they want.
Click to expand...

It's really amazing that the Leftists in the country call job creation and working together a right wing agenda.

I wonder if that explains the incredible success of the Democrat Party over the last 8 years...

Democrats lost more than 1,030 seats during Barack Obama's presidency | Daily Mail Online
 
code1211 said:
I'll give you that last point.

Trump is trying to unite the business community, that is, labor and ownership. NO POLITICAL PARTY OR PERSON HAS EVER DONE THIS IN THE USA.

I said in a different post that jobs and apples could be compared in an analogy.

Democrats once said they loved workers and hated the fat cats that employed them.

Assume that apples are jobs.

What the democrats were saying, in effect, was that they loved it when people had good apples, but would work relentlessly to stop the orchard owners from growing apples.

People who need jobs can't get them if the people who create jobs stop doing so. Whether they stop by their own choice or stop because their efforts are blocked, the number of jobs is not growing.

Trump is telling people around the world that they need to pay up. If you were getting a free ride and suddenly the tickets cost money, you'd complain, too. So are the folks that have been bleeding us.
Click to expand...

Nothing you said has anything to do with Trump, the Republicans or labor. Trump hasn't "united" anybody.


FDR did all that many years ago.
 
well, the GOP is already in the ****ter so, it can't get much further ...................
 
jet57 said:
Nothing you said has anything to do with Trump, the Republicans or labor. Trump hasn't "united" anybody. FDR did all that many years ago.
Click to expand...

I beg to differ on trump not uniting anyone. While DEMs struggle to come together from within their party, trump is single-handedly bringing the Obama coalition back together for 2018.

While GOPs crow over the Senate map, they know how precarious the maps are for the House, state legislatures and governors .
 
Phys251 said:
The Republican party needs to become much more libertarian. Not crackpot libertarian, but classical-liberal, free-market and socially tolerant libertarian.

There's an unmet market for that kind of voter that both major parties have yet to provide.
Click to expand...


Classical liberalism" is the term used to designate the ideology advocating private property, an unhampered market economy, the rule of law, constitutional guarantees of freedom of religion and of the press, and international peace based on free trade.

https://mises.org/library/what-classical-liberalism
 
Mentality between republic and democracy

Aristotle does not use the word democracy and republic interchangeably; neither does Socrates in Plato's Republic.

Aristotle defines a republic as the rule of law. "...it is preferable for the law to rule rather than any one of the citizens, and according to this same principle, even if it be better for certain men to govern, they must be appointed as guardians of the laws and in subordination to them;... the law shall govern seems to recommend that God and reason alone shall govern..." Thomas Jefferson beseeched his countrymen to "bind men down from mischief by the chains of the constitution".

A democracy's mentality is that the people are sovereign and have become a law unto themselves wherefore the phrase vox populi, vox dei. The mentality of Despotism, as it can be seen in the Asian kings of the Pharoahs, Babylonians and Persians, Alexander the Great, his successors and the Roman Emperors starting with Julius Caesar, is that the king or Emperor makes the law so he is God. For the Spartan mindset, the Law, the golden mean, is to rule not men collectively or singly as the Spartan King advises Xerxes at the Battle of Thermopylae, to wit, "The point is that although they're free, they're not entirely free; their master is the law, and they're far more afraid of this than your men are of you. At any rate, they do whatever the law commands...". A man's obedience, loyalty, and fidelity lie in the law and not in persons; the Spartan mindset being, "I'm obedient to the law but under no man".

Aristotle notices that a democracy puts the people above the law: "men ambitious of office by acting as popular leaders bring things to the point of the people's being sovereign even over the laws."

When the law loses respect, Aristotle says in V vii 7 that "constitutional government turns into a democracy". And in that situation, Socrates, Plato and Aristotle fear the possibility that "Tyranny, then arises from no other form of government than democracy." Then, democracies are no more than ochlocracies. In more recent times, Huey Long said that when fascism came to the United States it would call itself "democracy".
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom