Did Flynn Offer Russia Sanctions Relief With Trump's Knowledge?

matchlight said:

Let's see the transcript of the entire Dec. 29 call, so we don't need to guess what they talked about.

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Okay I'll wait for that...but wasn't Flynn a private citizen on Dec 29th, and was the call overseas or just to some Russian in the states? Not sure how the FICA laws on that would works.

Mustachio said:

1. I have NEVER said a single positive thing about Hillary on this forum except "she'd be a better President than Trump." That said, Putin is reported by everybody to hate Hillary.

2. It's almost like you're not reading the post you're responding to. I am asking why the VP was lied to for weeks. Do you not think he looks like a moron? He went on television and assured everybody that something didn't happen - when it DID - because he wasn't informed. And who are these sources? How would I know? Ted Nuget. It's Ted Nuget. I don't know. But major media outlets vet information or retract it. There is a 0% chance that there aren't fairly high level leaks in the White House and Trump admitted it - remember, the leaks are real but the news is fake. My take on it is that something is going on and I won't come out and say Flynn, Trump, Manafort, Bannon or Preibus did x, y or z until there are named sources or the information is widely corroborated (like in, say, an audio recording with Billy Bush).

You are right, though, I hate Trump. But it isn't because of Russia. I'm deeply troubled that most people who voted for him don't want to ask the questions everybody else is confused as hell about, but I hate Trump (his inherent repulsiveness aside) because he's a rubber stamp for a congress that can't wait to kill the EPA and everything in the ACA.

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You better reread your post I responded to. You said something about ties to Putin and I asked for proof. You mentioned deals under the table and I asked for proof. Get your mom to help you.

Rogue Valley said:

The Republicans confirmed Pruitt as head of the EPA. America's air and waters just took a huge hit.

Four weeks of Trump feels like four months of any other president.

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Let's try to keep our comments on topic, even the idiotic ones like this. Thank you.

Cvir said:

I think Trump knew that Flynn called, but I doubt either knew it was against the law. From what I understand, it's a fairly obscure law, over 200 years old and has never been enforced. It was written to keep the average citizen from discussing gov't affairs with foreign governments. It was not aimed at a newly elected administration official in the midst of transitioning into the White House. In just a few weeks, his conversation would have been legal. I agree however that it did break the law and Trump did the right thing by letting him go. I think Flynn resigned before Trump could fire him. Just another example of Trump doing the right thing, instead of trying to defend Flynn. Because if he did, imagine the howls from the left. But you'll probably hear them anyways.

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He was told that Flynn was a liability BEFORE he took office and sat on it until the leaks forced his hand. He doesn't give a hoot about giving secrets to the Russians. For all we know Putin is running the show right now.

iguanaman said:

He was told that Flynn was a liability BEFORE he took office and sat on it until the leaks forced his hand. He doesn't give a hoot about giving secrets to the Russians. For all we know Putin is running the show right now.

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Flynn gave secrets to the Russians? I guess I missed the memo. How do you know that the Russians didn't give secrets to Flynn?

antiquity said:

Flynn gave secrets to the Russians? I guess I missed the memo. How do you know that the Russians didn't give secrets to Flynn?

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Get up to speed before you post. I did not say he gave secrets I said Trump was warned that he might and ignored the warning until the leaks about it made it impossible. You do know that Flynn's security clearances have been revoked don't you?

lurchadams said:

Personally I think it's very sad that Trump continues to bash the U.S. and our leaders, all the while stating how highly he thinks of Putin. It only further proves how Putin might have some blackmail material on Trump.

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It indicates that but I don't understand how it's possible we don't have confirmation of that yet. Either the Kremlin is killing people with information (possible) or information exists but is under wraps via some unknown means/deals/whatever (less likely, information and the internet are bffs). Or there's nothing there (also possible). I guess time is needed before we learn the truth, but that's very rare these days.

Cvir said:

You better reread your post I responded to. You said something about ties to Putin and I asked for proof. You mentioned deals under the table and I asked for proof. Get your mom to help you.

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So you have the internet because you're posting but you don't have access to the hundred thousand articles about how Flynn promised to remove sanctions Obama put in place? And how he did that without the knowledge of the American people OR the VP? That would be called under the table by anybody with a brain. Are you one of those people who gets all their news from Sean Hannity and Trump's twitter account? Because everything else is fake even after the Trump administration confirms that it's true and Flynn resigns and apologizes?

Oh and you asked about ties to Putin. Do I need to google that for you, or can you handle typing "trump putin ties" into the google machine?

It's hard to tell if Pres. Trump knew Gen. Flynn acted on his own to call the Russian Ambassador. During his press conference yesterday (2/16/2017), Trump said around the 41:20 mark that he didn't direct Flynn to call the Russian Ambassador, but that he would have done so. Why? What would have been the point? He said Flynn was just doing his job, but let's not forget Flynn wasn't an official "Presidential Advisor" on 12/29/16. He didn't hold that title officially until 01/20/17 once Trump was inaugurated.

Pres. Trump said he fired Flynn because he lied (or omitted details) about his phone call to the Russian Ambassador. So, a simply lie is enough to get you fired in Trump's world? I'm not buying it. You don't do something like this over something so trivial. And then there's the question of whether or not Trump was aware that Flynn was going to contact the Russian Ambassador. As mentioned above, he said he didn't direct Flynn to make the call, but he doesn't say he wasn't aware that Flynn had called him.

I think the fact that word got out concerning the details of the phone call is the only reason Flynn got fired. The truth of the matter proved embarrassing to the VP and that put (the) Trump (Administration) in a bad light. The fact that it was confirmed that Flynn had spoken to a Russian government official on the same day Pres. Obama imposed sanctions against them only brought the suspicion of Trump and/or members of his campaign's Russian involvement back into the spotlight. IMO, that is really why Flynn really got fired.

Fenton said:

First, no ones ever been prosecuted for violating the 1799 Logan act but some on the Left want not only Flynn arrested but Trump impeached as a criminal co-conspirator.
Theyve lost their minds.

The Lefts refusal to call the Obama administration out on their overt lawlessness and ethical lapses means they have zero credibillity when it comes to their demands for justice and accountabillity.

Flynn stepped down as he should have, end of story

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I don't think Flynn resigning had anything to do with him violating the Logan Act or lying to VP Pence. I think it had everything to do with trying to avoid any (further) embarrassment over allegations of anyone else from "Team Trump" being connected to Russian involvement. I mean, look at how long it took Pres. Trump to deal with this situation. Seems he was perfectly fine with retaining Flynn until word got out about the undisclosed details of the call. After all, he knew about the phone call for nearly 2 months. Why be so concerned over this now?

Also, notice what Pres. Trump said about why Flynn was fired; not that he didn't tell him about the details of the call, but rather because he didn't come clean with the details to the VP. Not once does Pres. Trump say that Flynn provided him with details of the phone call. Instead, he says he didn't direct him to make the call but would have done so "because he was doing his job". But if that were the case, why fire the man for "doing his job"?

The Logan Act had nothing to do with it. The potential fallout did.

Objective Voice said:

I don't think Flynn resigning had anything to do with him violating the Logan Act or lying to VP Pence. I think it had everything to do with trying to avoid any (further) embarrassment over allegations of anyone else from "Team Trump" being connected to Russian involvement. I mean, look at how long it took Pres. Trump to deal with this situation. Seems he was perfectly fine with retaining Flynn until word got out about the undisclosed details of the call. After all, he knew about the phone call for nearly 2 months. Why be so concerned over this now?

Also, notice what Pres. Trump said about why Flynn was fired; not that he didn't tell him about the details of the call, but rather because he didn't come clean with the details to the VP. Not once does Pres. Trump say that Flynn provided him with details of the phone call. Instead, he says he didn't direct him to make the call but would have done so "because he was doing his job". But if that were the case, why fire the man for "doing his job"?

The Logan Act had nothing to do with it. The potential fallout did.

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That's probably right. Trump likes Flynn and would have kept him had the story blown over. He cut him lose once the pressure started to build. Thats how things work in Washington.

Cvir said:

Facts please?

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Those are the facts. Trump said he had full confidence in Flynn. Trump knew what he did. Trump said he didn't tell Flynn to do it but he would have told him to if asked. Do you listen to what Trump says at all?

Cvir said:

And so what if he did direct him? That's Flynn's job.

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The Logan Act (1 Stat. 613, 18 U.S.C. § 953, enacted January 30, 1799 ) is a United States federal law that details the fine and/or imprisonment of unauthorized citizens who negotiate with foreign governments having a dispute with the United States.

If his job is to break the law, then yes it's his job.

Why was he fired if he was just doing his job? Because he broke the law. Only the current administration can make deals with other countries. Flynn didn't work for the Obama admin. He worked for Trump.

Astonished said:

The Logan Act (1 Stat. 613, 18 U.S.C. § 953, enacted January 30, 1799 ) is a United States federal law that details the fine and/or imprisonment of unauthorized citizens who negotiate with foreign governments having a dispute with the United States.

If his job is to break the law, then yes it's his job.

Why was he fired if he was just doing his job? Because he broke the law. Only the current administration can make deals with other countries. Flynn didn't work for the Obama admin. He worked for Trump.

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You're forgetting or ignoring facts. All we know is that he spoke with the ambassador. Anyone is lawfully allowed to do so. The Logan Act does not prohibit that. If that were the case Obama would have been in violation. Yes he spoke with foreign leaders before becoming officially the president also. You have no idea what they discussed or if there was any negotiation. What facts do you have that deals were made? NONE! You read the law, now try to understand it.

Astonished said:

Those are the facts. Trump said he had full confidence in Flynn. Trump knew what he did. Trump said he didn't tell Flynn to do it but he would have told him to if asked. Do you listen to what Trump says at all?

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Yes I listened to Trump and heard exactly what he said. So? Given the FACTS, as we know them, no laws were violated. I don't mind anyone being critical of Trump, just try to stick with facts instead of what you might want to believe. I find it curious that the left have their hair on fire with Trump and Russia, but no curiosity about Hillary's uranium deal with Russia. Given the big picture, we should be much more concerned about that. But I realize that is a different subject.

Cvir said:

Yes I listened to Trump and heard exactly what he said. So? Given the FACTS, as we know them, no laws were violated. I don't mind anyone being critical of Trump, just try to stick with facts instead of what you might want to believe. I find it curious that the left have their hair on fire with Trump and Russia, but no curiosity about Hillary's uranium deal with Russia. Given the big picture, we should be much more concerned about that. But I realize that is a different subject.

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Why was he fired?

The Logan Act.

Cvir said:

Yes I listened to Trump and heard exactly what he said. So? Given the FACTS, as we know them, no laws were violated. I don't mind anyone being critical of Trump, just try to stick with facts instead of what you might want to believe. I find it curious that the left have their hair on fire with Trump and Russia, but no curiosity about Hillary's uranium deal with Russia. Given the big picture, we should be much more concerned about that. But I realize that is a different subject.

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BECAUSE it's fake news LOL

Hillary Clinton Gave 20 Percent of United States' Uranium to Russia in Exchange for Clinton Foundation Donations?

Really can republicans be MORE GULLIBLE? Your orange supreme leader is LYING TO YOU.

Astonished said:

Why was he fired?

The Logan Act.

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Flynn was fired because he lied to the VP about having contact with the Russian ambassador.