How long before an American throws a shoe at Trump?

RickJames3000 said:

I don't know, man... but it kind of bothers me when people bring up "giving Trump time" before judging him...

It's not like dude is particularly new to the scene. Plenty of people had a chance to make up their minds during the primaries and the general election. He said lots of things about lots of issues, using the "best words". We've seen who he's picked for his team. He's hit the ground running with many executive orders already. There is plenty of information for people to make a judgment about him. The whoie "wait and see' narrative is quickly approaching its expiration date...

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I didn't like Trump during the primaries or the General Election, I didn't vote for him. But that doesn't mean he doesn't deserve a chance. Trump doesn't even have his cabinet in place yet. His team. I always believed any president should have whom he wants around him. From Eisenhower on, I believed that. If one of his team messes up, the blame and responsibility rest with the president.

Looking at the polls, basically the same people who liked Trump back on election day, like him today. The same people who hated him on election day, hate him today. It's like objectivity has left the building. He's not my candidate of my political party, impeach him. I find that reasoning hard to swallow.

But perhaps the reason for all of this is the negativity of the campaign in which both major party candidates painted the other as the devil reincarnated. Evil personified. When both major parties run candidates that the majority of Americans didn't want, this should be expected You can say each won their primaries, very true. But Gallup had a poll out there stating 25% of all Americans disliked both candidates. Put on top of that 25% those avid Trump supporters who disliked Hillary, you have Hillary with close to a 60% unfavorable rating. The same for Trump, place those avid Hillary supporters on top of that 25% and you also have around 60% of all Americans who disliked her.

Even though I hated the idea of either Trump or Clinton in the Oval office, I would wait and see how either performed before passing judgement. But I suppose it is naive not to expect Clinton supporters not to condemn Trump and give him a chance as to each and everyone of them, Trump is evil. To be fair, I am sure if Hillary had run, the Trump supporters would be condemning her without giving her a chance either. Such is the polarization of our politics today.

RickJames3000 said:

I don't know... but I am absolutely certain he lacks the dexterity to evade getting hit, unlike Dubya. He's probably the president in the worst physical shape since Taft.

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Not true. His Dr. already confirmed Trump is "the healthiest person to run for president ever."


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DA60 said:

How long before an American throws a shoe at Trump?

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Surprised that one of the leftist rioters hasn't already.

Perotista said:

I really don't know what to make of Trump. Hence my wait and see mode. There has been a couple of things he's done I liked and a couple I haven't. But it is that way with every president with me. I really dislike his constant use of twitter, that grates big time on me. His persona sucks, but policy wise, I don't know. He hasn't been around enough for me to praise or condemn.

I think it is the dumbest thing in the world to be for or against someone because they are a Republican or a Democrat. What ever happened to take it issue by issue, policy by policy, giving someone a bit of time to at least get his feet wet. Why let party affiliation make up your mind on every single issue, candidate, policy. How about having a mind of your own?

This polarization must end or it will be the end of us. Destroyed from within over party bickering.

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Greetings, Pero. :2wave:

The possibility exists, IMO, that this has been orchestrated for exactly this purpose! It weakens us! This is not merely a case of Democrat versus Republican - we've always had that due to ideology differences - this goes much deeper. We can look at what is currently happening in Europe with the Muslim invasion of "refugees", as an example. They are not assimilating as other groups of immigrants have in the past - could it be because their religion forbids it?

The global elite want a one-world-government with themselves calling the shots, but that means we lose our Constitution and Bill of Rights if that happens. We are a sovereign country with immigration laws that have been in effect for many years, but suddenly they are being questioned about how much "vetting" anyone should undergo! Most all of us are here because our ancestors were immigrants, and they followed the laws that were in effect - none of them told the government how to run this country to their specifications, to my knowledge! Why is this happening? :shock:

polgara said:

Greetings, Pero. :2wave:

The possibility exists, IMO, that this has been orchestrated for exactly this purpose! It weakens us! This is not merely a case of Democrat versus Republican - we've always had that due to ideology differences - this goes much deeper. We can look at what is currently happening in Europe with the Muslim invasion of "refugees", as an example. They are not assimilating as other groups of immigrants have in the past - could it be because their religion forbids it?

The global elite want a one-world-government with themselves calling the shots, but that means we lose our Constitution and Bill of Rights if that happens. We are a sovereign country with immigration laws that have been in effect for many years, but suddenly they are being questioned about how much "vetting" anyone should undergo! Most all of us are here because our ancestors were immigrants, and they followed the laws that were in effect - none of them told the government how to run this country to their specifications, to my knowledge! Why is this happening? :shock:

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Believe it or not Pol, there was a time when the ideology of the two parties weren't much different. Back in the 50's and 60's, each party had their conservative wing and liberal wing. The northeast was liberal Republican and the south conservative Democrat. At one time the Democrats were the war hawks, the Republicans the isolationist doves. So much for my history lesson tonight.

I think the term is radical Islam that doesn't want to assimilate and wants this country to be government by Islamic Laws. Most Muslims aren't that radical. Remember, Christianity went through its phase with some being radical, the inquisition and killing folks who wouldn't convert. All in the name of god much like the radical Islamist are doing today. One also must not forget, we do have quite a lot of Muslims now serving in our Armed Forces. Some on the front lines fighting the radicals of their faith, known also as terrorist.

Any country should be able to control their own borders. Any country should be able to state who enters and who does not. That is all part of being an independent nation. But it seems a lot of us are willing to give up being an independent nation with a Constitution which governs us. As far as I am concerned, no person should be able to enter this country except legally and IAW all our laws. I had no problem with Trump's temporary ban of all people from seven countries for 90 days. The constitution give congresses the authority over immigration and the congress gave the president authority by law for Trump to do exactly what he did. What Trump missed in my opinion were those already who had visas approved or who were in transit. There he messed up. Those folks either were on their way here legally or about to come here legally.

It is my opinion, the court should have told Trump to rewrite his order. But that is my opinion.

Perotista said:

I didn't like Trump during the primaries or the General Election, I didn't vote for him. But that doesn't mean he doesn't deserve a chance. Trump doesn't even have his cabinet in place yet. His team. I always believed any president should have whom he wants around him. From Eisenhower on, I believed that. If one of his team messes up, the blame and responsibility rest with the president.

Looking at the polls, basically the same people who liked Trump back on election day, like him today. The same people who hated him on election day, hate him today. It's like objectivity has left the building. He's not my candidate of my political party, impeach him. I find that reasoning hard to swallow.

But perhaps the reason for all of this is the negativity of the campaign in which both major party candidates painted the other as the devil reincarnated. Evil personified. When both major parties run candidates that the majority of Americans didn't want, this should be expected You can say each won their primaries, very true. But Gallup had a poll out there stating 25% of all Americans disliked both candidates. Put on top of that 25% those avid Trump supporters who disliked Hillary, you have Hillary with close to a 60% unfavorable rating. The same for Trump, place those avid Hillary supporters on top of that 25% and you also have around 60% of all Americans who disliked her.

Even though I hated the idea of either Trump or Clinton in the Oval office, I would wait and see how either performed before passing judgement. But I suppose it is naive not to expect Clinton supporters not to condemn Trump and give him a chance as to each and everyone of them, Trump is evil. To be fair, I am sure if Hillary had run, the Trump supporters would be condemning her without giving her a chance either. Such is the polarization of our politics today.

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I wasn't a Clinton fan. I preferred her to Trump... but then again, I would have preferred Kasich and/or Rubio to Trump as well, and I wasn't a fan of either of them.

I'm fine with you not having your mind made up, but it seems a bit sanctimonious for you to suggest others "give him a chance" when many of us feel we've seen all we need in order to dislike him.
I made a point of reading up on his career and life, including consuming several biographies this December. I'm not making a blind judgement.

Really... I think the "give him a chance" stuff is nothing more than empty rhetoric anyway. I speak specifically to things he has done... his words and decisions. When he does something I like, I'll be happy that it's done. But given what I've seen, I think the best he'll ever make me feel is fortunate that he didn't do something catastrophic.

And really. it doesn't matter if I "give him a chance" or not. As far as protesting out on the streets... I don't see that happening either. And I'm not enthusiastic about the prospect of an impeachment, because I don't want Ryan's GOP to have a free hand. I hope that Trump will find himself in conflict with Congress, and that he plays out his four years... at this point he is the only one who can obstruct the worst instincts of the GOP. Pence is a moron and never should have gotten this close to the presidency. He was a failure as a Governor, and the only reason he got on board with Trump is because he had nothing left to lose. So I can't possibly hope for impeachment.

Abbazorkzog said:

**** that, someone throw salt on him and see if he shrinks.

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Just not on his hands... they get any smaller, they'll be unusable.

Perotista said:

I didn't like Trump during the primaries or the General Election, I didn't vote for him. But that doesn't mean he doesn't deserve a chance. Trump doesn't even have his cabinet in place yet. His team. I always believed any president should have whom he wants around him. From Eisenhower on, I believed that. If one of his team messes up, the blame and responsibility rest with the president.

Looking at the polls, basically the same people who liked Trump back on election day, like him today. The same people who hated him on election day, hate him today. It's like objectivity has left the building. He's not my candidate of my political party, impeach him. I find that reasoning hard to swallow.

But perhaps the reason for all of this is the negativity of the campaign in which both major party candidates painted the other as the devil reincarnated. Evil personified. When both major parties run candidates that the majority of Americans didn't want, this should be expected You can say each won their primaries, very true. But Gallup had a poll out there stating 25% of all Americans disliked both candidates. Put on top of that 25% those avid Trump supporters who disliked Hillary, you have Hillary with close to a 60% unfavorable rating. The same for Trump, place those avid Hillary supporters on top of that 25% and you also have around 60% of all Americans who disliked her.

Even though I hated the idea of either Trump or Clinton in the Oval office, I would wait and see how either performed before passing judgement. But I suppose it is naive not to expect Clinton supporters not to condemn Trump and give him a chance as to each and everyone of them, Trump is evil. To be fair, I am sure if Hillary had run, the Trump supporters would be condemning her without giving her a chance either. Such is the polarization of our politics today.

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Also to be fair, I don't think that those disappointed by a Clinton victory would be protesting in the streets or preventing progressive campus speakers from taking the stage or Sec/Eds from walking into a school.

Perotista said:

LOL, I got a good laugh at the thread title. The answer may depend on one's political views or whom one supported in the general election. I think you have the Trump supporters whom he can never do no wrong and Clinton supporters whom Trump can never do anything right. Polarization to the max as we have seen in his first three weeks on the job.

The question then becomes, what about those in the middle. Those who neither supported Trump or Clinton. Call them independents, non-affiliated, those who detested both candidates. Are they ready to throw their shoes at Trump? I would say the current answer today, is not yet. They are still feeling the guy out. Giving him a chance. Actually Trump's favorable or approval ratings, he has improved from 40% to 44% among this middle group.

That still leaves 49% of this group which view Trump in the negative, but that is down from 57% on election day. I would say if you're not a polarized partisan, the jury is still out. I know, it's hard to believe there are some who are not hard right or hard left, who are not avid Trump supporters or avid anti-Trump haters. But there are probably more of us in the middle than most people think regardless of which side of Trump you're on.

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Americans are optimistic. We want to give people chances to do right by us. Most boomers I know are at least open to Trump. Trump needs to control some of his base impulses, quit yammering on like an empty headed moron on twitter.. Dude.. Donald.. flame wars on twitter with Senators are not a good look. And I think favorables are within his reach. Not, from me, though, I'm a partisan stooge who sees the world through a liberal bias.

DA60 said:

How long before an American throws a shoe at Trump?

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It's just not an American affectation. On the other hand, he might be mooned a few dozen times.
/

RickJames3000 said:

I don't know... but I am absolutely certain he lacks the dexterity to evade getting hit, unlike Dubya. He's probably the president in the worst physical shape since Taft.

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They wouldn't let the reporters watch him golf. He really is a douche bag.

RickJames3000 said:

Just not on his hands... they get any smaller, they'll be unusable.

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Might stop him from his middle school butt hurt thin skinned tweets.:lamo

Hari Seldon said:

They wouldn't let the reporters watch him golf. He really is a douche bag.

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I wonder what his handicap is? On second thought, no... I have a pretty good idea already.

year2late said:

Might stop him from his middle school butt hurt thin skinned tweets.:lamo

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He's all thumbs, isn't he?

RickJames3000 said:

The best part of it is he maintains his composure and even seems a bit amused by the incident.
Looking at this gif makes me sentimental, and I was no fan of him either.

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I hadn't seen this video for awhile.
GW dodged the shoe and laughed it off.
Well done.
I have to say, the shoe thrower was really accurate with his toss, too.
I wonder if he practiced for the big event.

RickJames3000 said:

I wasn't a Clinton fan. I preferred her to Trump... but then again, I would have preferred Kasich and/or Rubio to Trump as well, and I wasn't a fan of either of them.

I'm fine with you not having your mind made up, but it seems a bit sanctimonious for you to suggest others "give him a chance" when many of us feel we've seen all we need in order to dislike him.
I made a point of reading up on his career and life, including consuming several biographies this December. I'm not making a blind judgement.

Really... I think the "give him a chance" stuff is nothing more than empty rhetoric anyway. I speak specifically to things he has done... his words and decisions. When he does something I like, I'll be happy that it's done. But given what I've seen, I think the best he'll ever make me feel is fortunate that he didn't do something catastrophic.

And really. it doesn't matter if I "give him a chance" or not. As far as protesting out on the streets... I don't see that happening either. And I'm not enthusiastic about the prospect of an impeachment, because I don't want Ryan's GOP to have a free hand. I hope that Trump will find himself in conflict with Congress, and that he plays out his four years... at this point he is the only one who can obstruct the worst instincts of the GOP. Pence is a moron and never should have gotten this close to the presidency. He was a failure as a Governor, and the only reason he got on board with Trump is because he had nothing left to lose. So I can't possibly hope for impeachment.

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To each his own. With me, I like some things Trump has done or attempted to do and dislike others. As a result I am not a supporter or against him. When time goes by, I will get a better grip on him. My first choice was Jim Webb, then followed by John Kasich. I would have voted Rubo over Clinton. Heck, I would have voted almost any other GOP candidate over Clinton except Trump. I voted against both, for Johnson. I reverse is also true, I would have voted for any other Democrat against Trump.

I do find it strange that there is all this animosity against Trump already, this early. It wasn't there for Obama, Bush II, Clinton and on back. Perhaps the closed and it is a thousand miles difference is when Nixon was elected in 1968. A lot of Democrats hated him, the hate personal. But that was due to the Alger Hiss affair and Nixon's campaigns against Helen Gahagan Douglas for the senate seat. It went very negative also like this campaign.

This may be just the result of that very negative campaign. The losing side doesn't forget or forgive. I might not have made up my mind about Trump yet, but I can see where others are dead set against him. Ever since the Alger Hiss case, the Democrats made bringing Nixon down a priority. Seems to me, the Democrats won't rest until they bring down Trump.

nota bene said:

Also to be fair, I don't think that those disappointed by a Clinton victory would be protesting in the streets or preventing progressive campus speakers from taking the stage or Sec/Eds from walking into a school.

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I do think there would be some of that, not as much for sure. But those on the right have always been less vocal, less inclined to protest and demonstrate. Should I use the word, refined? I look back at the days of Richard Nixon, the left, the anti-Vietnam protesters, all of that, the left was very vocal. Hogged all the media spotlight. Yes, Henrietta, there is a silent majority. Nixon won re-election in a landslide against those very left and noisy, vocal demonstrators.

I think the lesson learned was that those most vocal, which they succeeded then to give the impression they represented most Americans. They didn't, but congress and the media bought that idea only because of all the noise they made.

Winston said:

Americans are optimistic. We want to give people chances to do right by us. Most boomers I know are at least open to Trump. Trump needs to control some of his base impulses, quit yammering on like an empty headed moron on twitter.. Dude.. Donald.. flame wars on twitter with Senators are not a good look. And I think favorables are within his reach. Not, from me, though, I'm a partisan stooge who sees the world through a liberal bias.

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I agree. Ditch twitter, sit down and think things through before spouting off at the mouth. Everything said doesn't need to become a feud or Trump attacking anyone and everyone who ever utters a bad word about him. Trump continuing acting like a 5th grade schoolyard bully, constantly throwing three year old tantrums via twitter must cease. That grates big time on me. Trump may lose support, his unfavorable ratings rise, not because folks don't like his policies or what he is attempting to do, but because of his persona.

There are people that rub other people the wrong way without doing anything to cause that. Trump to me, is fast becoming one of those people. With all the Democrats dead set against him, Trump can't afford to lose any of the non-affiliated support, even if that support is lukewarm.

Thanks to whoever posted the video of W dodging the shoe. I hadn't seen it in so long!

As for the poll, probably not an American throwing a shoe at Trump (that really would not be wise) but perhaps an angry Yemeni or Iranian?

Perotista said:

To each his own. With me, I like some things Trump has done or attempted to do and dislike others. As a result I am not a supporter or against him. When time goes by, I will get a better grip on him. My first choice was Jim Webb, then followed by John Kasich. I would have voted Rubo over Clinton. Heck, I would have voted almost any other GOP candidate over Clinton except Trump. I voted against both, for Johnson. I reverse is also true, I would have voted for any other Democrat against Trump.

I do find it strange that there is all this animosity against Trump already, this early. It wasn't there for Obama, Bush II, Clinton and on back. Perhaps the closed and it is a thousand miles difference is when Nixon was elected in 1968. A lot of Democrats hated him, the hate personal. But that was due to the Alger Hiss affair and Nixon's campaigns against Helen Gahagan Douglas for the senate seat. It went very negative also like this campaign.

This may be just the result of that very negative campaign. The losing side doesn't forget or forgive. I might not have made up my mind about Trump yet, but I can see where others are dead set against him. Ever since the Alger Hiss case, the Democrats made bringing Nixon down a priority. Seems to me, the Democrats won't rest until they bring down Trump.

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I just think you are making it too complicated. The resistance against Trump has EVERYTHING to do with the fact that no one knows what the guy wants to do. People are freaked out by a totally unknown quantity. Think about it this way... would anyone in the private sector choose a CEO that had absolutely NO experience or knowledge in the relevant industry? NO.

But why would Democrats want to "bring down" Trump, given the fact that Pence would be an inevitability? I think many Democrats simply want an ineffective Trump... render him impotent with a thousand punches to the balls. Make it difficult for him to do too much damage.

DA60 said:

How long before an American throws a shoe at Trump?

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Taking your question literally, my answer is "Never". Security around the President is so tight that nobody will ever get the chance to do it.

Taking your question figuratively, my answer is he's had shoes thrown at him daily since he first announced his candidacy for the Republican nomination.

RickJames3000 said:

I just think you are making it too complicated. The resistance against Trump has EVERYTHING to do with the fact that no one knows what the guy wants to do. People are freaked out by a totally unknown quantity. Think about it this way... would anyone in the private sector choose a CEO that had absolutely NO experience or knowledge in the relevant industry? NO.

But why would Democrats want to "bring down" Trump, given the fact that Pence would be an inevitability? I think many Democrats simply want an ineffective Trump... render him impotent with a thousand punches to the balls. Make it difficult for him to do too much damage.

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I do tend to get probably into more depth than necessary. Sometimes the KISS principle is thrown out the window. Keep it simple stupid principle. But I do think the hate the Democrats have for Trump, not all, but in general obliterates the fact Pence would end up as president. If I were a Democrat, yes, I would want to make Trump as ineffective as possible. That I agree with.

But I am not sure it is the people, as a whole that is anti-Trump now. The Democrats for sure, the media yes. I do think most of the independents, the non-affiliate voter is still trying to digest Trump. He does seem like a fish out of water, but he wasn't a politician and doesn't know how to act as one. He probably doesn't give a darn if he acts presidential or not.

But we'll see what happens. One way or another, this is going to be the most interesting presidential term to happen in a long time.

I suspect there will be plenty of those Ivanka-line high heels available for tossing :2razz:

Perotista said:

I do tend to get probably into more depth than necessary. Sometimes the KISS principle is thrown out the window. Keep it simple stupid principle. But I do think the hate the Democrats have for Trump, not all, but in general obliterates the fact Pence would end up as president. If I were a Democrat, yes, I would want to make Trump as ineffective as possible. That I agree with.

But I am not sure it is the people, as a whole that is anti-Trump now. The Democrats for sure, the media yes. I do think most of the independents, the non-affiliate voter is still trying to digest Trump. He does seem like a fish out of water, but he wasn't a politician and doesn't know how to act as one. He probably doesn't give a darn if he acts presidential or not.

But we'll see what happens. One way or another, this is going to be the most interesting presidential term to happen in a long time.

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I agree with you.
I think there are some independents and a whole lot of old school conservatives for whom the jury is still out.
And yes... your last line brings to mind the Confucian curse.

RickJames3000 said:

I agree with you.
I think there are some independents and a whole lot of old school conservatives for whom the jury is still out.
And yes... your last line brings to mind the Confucian curse.

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LOL, yeah. Interesting can mean a whole lot of things. Traditional conservatives don't trust Trump, it was the traditional conservatives that started the never Trump movement which fizzled. I suppose the bottom line is that Trump is the GOP's problem. Probably more so than the Democrats. Trump gives them someone to unite around or against, use either word or both.