Who *owns* tax money?

Who *owns* tax money? In a literal sense. I see this point made often, usually by people right-of-center when talking about government spending, and school vouchers especially seems to be a popular catalyst for conversation.

Once taken from the citizen, does the government own it? Does the citizen(s) own it? If so, is it all owned collectively by all the citizens, or do people only own what they paid? As in if Joe Schmoe paid in $140, he lays claim to how that $140 is spent, but no more?

The people collectively, spent through the legislative arm of society, the government.

Haven't we had this discussion before?

"The government owns it"... the citizen has no claim to it at all, and we are not a direct democracy either.

Through legislation the government sets taxation and spending, at no time does the citizen have any individual or collective claim of ownership to funds held by the government in any disposition.

Most taxes are unconstitutional.

radcen said:

Who *owns* tax money? In a literal sense. I see this point made often, usually by people right-of-center when talking about government spending, and school vouchers especially seems to be a popular catalyst for conversation.

Once taken from the citizen, does the government own it? Does the citizen(s) own it? If so, is it all owned collectively by all the citizens, or do people only own what they paid? As in if Joe Schmoe paid in $140, he lays claim to how that $140 is spent, but no more?

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well in a literal sense, the Federal Reserve, a privately owned bank owns our tax money. The Government creates new dollars to spend, all our taxes do is pay off the credit cards interest to the Federal Reserve for facilitating the creation of that money. A bull**** system that lies at the root of most of our problems, the last president to try and tackle that problem was assassinated, and every president since then has towed the bank cartel's who own the Feds line.

radcen said:

Who *owns* tax money? In a literal sense. I see this point made often, usually by people right-of-center when talking about government spending, and school vouchers especially seems to be a popular catalyst for conversation.

Once taken from the citizen, does the government own it? Does the citizen(s) own it? If so, is it all owned collectively by all the citizens, or do people only own what they paid? As in if Joe Schmoe paid in $140, he lays claim to how that $140 is spent, but no more?

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Those that had it taken from them. This is specifically not everyone.

radcen said:

Who *owns* tax money? In a literal sense. I see this point made often, usually by people right-of-center when talking about government spending, and school vouchers especially seems to be a popular catalyst for conversation.

Once taken from the citizen, does the government own it? Does the citizen(s) own it? If so, is it all owned collectively by all the citizens, or do people only own what they paid? As in if Joe Schmoe paid in $140, he lays claim to how that $140 is spent, but no more?

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That is an interesting thought. After all, the sovereign is the people. So the government could have a kind of fiduciary responsibility and the sovereign's other representatives in the legislative deciding use and controlling the government's use of funds. There must be a legal answer to the question. But I haven't got one other than that there are a number of ways it could be structured to attain more or less the same economic results.

radcen said:

Who *owns* tax money? In a literal sense. I see this point made often, usually by people right-of-center when talking about government spending, and school vouchers especially seems to be a popular catalyst for conversation.

Once taken from the citizen, does the government own it? Does the citizen(s) own it? If so, is it all owned collectively by all the citizens, or do people only own what they paid? As in if Joe Schmoe paid in $140, he lays claim to how that $140 is spent, but no more?

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Money is printed by the federal reserve and is immediately owed back to the federal reserve. Tax money is collected in dollars that means those dollars belong to the federal reserve. All fiscal dollars that bear the inscription, "Federal Reserve Note" are property of the federal reserve. Nobody can own them. We can only borrow them and utilize them as a means of transacting trade. Some of the older money might say, "Gold Certificate" or "Silver Certificate". Those bills are owned by the individual holding the bill. Federal Reserve Notes cannot be owned by any entity.

Tax dollars are the same as any other dollar. Those dollars are to be paid back to the Federal Reserve just the same as any other dollar.

Bodhisattva said:

Most taxes are unconstitutional.

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The nature of money changed with the passing of the Federal Reserve Act on December 23, 1913. The constitution was changed on February 3, 1913 to make the Federal Reserve Act possible. We are obligated to return every single dollar that we have in our possession back to the Federal Reserve. The federal government could enact a 100% tax on all of our earnings and it would be totally legal. Fortunately a tax of 100% of our income would be a bad idea. That is why they don't do it. It is not because they do not have the authority. They only resist the urge because it wouldn't work. All taxes are completely constitutional as of December 23, 1913. I always find it hilarious when people accuse the government of taking their money or wasting their money or some other delusion. The money was loaned to you indirectly by the federal reserve. You have to pay all of it back plus interest. The deck is stacked against us. The only ally we as average people have is the frequent transacting of trade among us. As long as the economy is active the government won't be pestering us to pay them back so much. The federal reserve is a great system to protect us from the cruelest and least transparent form of taxation known as hyperinflation. If we didn't have a federal reserve then the government could just print an unlimited amount of money. We are extremely fortunate that congress no longer has that authority. We'd be screwed.

Removable Mind said:

View attachment 67213592

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That's a good description.