• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Who are George Washington and Thomas Jefferson?

Who were George Washington and Thomas Jefferson?

  • Great people

    Votes: 8 29.6%

  • People with great character flaws

    Votes: 1 3.7%

  • Great people with great character flaws

    Votes: 18 66.7%
  • Total voters
    27
S

SCitizen

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 10, 2014
Messages
2,138
Reaction score
316
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
George Washington and Thomas Jefferson played a major role in establishment of the United States of America. And yet they have owned slaves. At the time of Washington’s death he owned 123 slaves. Slave living quarters/ would remind one of Gulag. Thomas Jefferson owned 200 slaves during the peak years of his prosperity. Thomas Jefferson supported slavery:

By 1820, Jefferson denounced Northern meddling with Southern slavery policy. On April 22, Jefferson criticized the Missouri Compromise because it might lead to the breakup of the Union. Jefferson said slavery was a complex issue and needed to be solved by the next generation.
Click to expand...
 
None of the above.

They were creatures of their times, upbringing, and social environments, who went on to do great things.

Most rational thinkers don't buy into all the white guilt crap you social wimps throw out there.
 
RetiredUSN said:
Most rational thinkers don't buy into all the white guilt crap you social wimps throw out there.
Click to expand...

I am white but in no way related to English Americans -- my ancestors were Jewish serfs in 1828 -- 1857.
 
SCitizen said:
George Washington and Thomas Jefferson played a major role in establishment of the United States of America. And yet they have owned slaves. At the time of Washington’s death he owned 123 slaves. Slave living quarters/ would remind one of Gulag. Thomas Jefferson owned 200 slaves during the peak years of his prosperity. Thomas Jefferson supported slavery:
Click to expand...

Yes, they had many flaws, as well as the rest of the Founders. Which is why I don't look at them like they're holy figures.
 
TheGoverness said:
Yes, they had many flaws, as well as the rest of the Founders. Which is why I don't look at them like they're holy figures.
Click to expand...

Definitely -- "Everyone makes mistakes. It's what makes us human."
 
RetiredUSN said:
None of the above.

They were creatures of their times, upbringing, and social environments, who went on to do great things.

Most rational thinkers don't buy into all the white guilt crap you social wimps throw out there.
Click to expand...

Some would say going along with social norms just because it is convenient is a character flaw.
 
Geoist said:
Some would say going along with social norms just because it is convenient is a character flaw.
Click to expand...

Definitely -- in 1800 many nations did not have slavery. This is not time of Aristotle.
 
SCitizen said:
Definitely -- in 1800 many nations did not have slavery. This is not time of Aristotle.
Click to expand...

And there were people against slavery in America at that time as well so it wasn't impossible to come to the right decision.
 
BrewerBob said:
And there were people against slavery in America at that time as well so it wasn't impossible to come to the right decision.
Click to expand...

Definitely -- that was the case in 1800, but not during times of Aristotle.
 
Geoist said:
Some would say going along with social norms just because it is convenient is a character flaw.
Click to expand...

Yes.... I agree. But many people hardly left their own county in those days until they either went into the military, or other ventures. Many children of slave owners had no real ideas of their own until they were out on their own. We get exposed at a young age these days to opposing views by interacting while sitting behind keyboards.

Political issues & news in those days took weeks and months to reach the mainstream American, and the news was generally 3rd hand.

Jefferson and washington were both conflicted on the issue.
 
SCitizen said:
George Washington and Thomas Jefferson played a major role in establishment of the United States of America. And yet they have owned slaves. At the time of Washington’s death he owned 123 slaves. Slave living quarters/ would remind one of Gulag. Thomas Jefferson owned 200 slaves during the peak years of his prosperity. Thomas Jefferson supported slavery:
Click to expand...

So?

Without Washington and Jefferson no revolution

Without the revolution no Constitution

Without the Constitution no republic

which ultimately freed everyone including blacks to be whatever their talent and effort allowed
 
Mac77 said:
So?

Without Washington and Jefferson no revolution

Without the revolution no Constitution

Without the Constitution no republic

which ultimately freed everyone including blacks to be whatever their talent and effort allowed
Click to expand...

British Empire freed all slaves in 1833.
 
SCitizen said:
British Empire freed all slaves in 1833.
Click to expand...

Understood.

But the American revolution led to the freedom of everyone including slaves from Africa

And Washington and Jefferson were an indispensable part of that
 
Mac77 said:
Understood.

But the American revolution led to the freedom of everyone including slaves from Africa

And Washington and Jefferson were an indispensable part of that
Click to expand...

British citizens were and are somewhat free. If you post offensive messages from UK you can be jailed, but in many ways English citizens are free.
 
SCitizen said:
British citizens were and are somewhat free. If you post offensive messages from UK you can be jailed, but in many ways English citizens are free.
Click to expand...

Yes, I would rather live in the UK than some countries I could think of

And we owe the mother country a great deal

But Britain is not the equal of America when it comes to freedom or economic opportunity
 
Mac77 said:
But Britain is not the equal of America when it comes to freedom
Click to expand...

United Kingdom has Freedom of Speech -- but Freedom of Speech is not freedom from consequences:

UKJail.jpg
 
RetiredUSN said:
None of the above.

They were creatures of their times, upbringing, and social environments, who went on to do great things.

Most rational thinkers don't buy into all the white guilt crap you social wimps throw out there.
Click to expand...

the most laughable arguments come from people who try to pretend that the bill of rights, or parts thereof, don't really matter or apply because they claim some of the men who ratified or wrote or voted for the BOR had slaves. From that fact they claim that the founders really didn't believe that "natural rights" applied to all men and from that, they jump to the specious conclusion that the natural rights intended to be recognized by the founders in the Bill of Rights really don't matter and thus the bill of rights does not restrain government action.
 
RetiredUSN said:
Britain brutalized entire countries long afterwards, and to say that it was not slavery of another form is total BS.
Click to expand...

Di UK engage in war crimes in their colonies in XIXth and early XXth centuries?
 
Mac77 said:
So?

Without Washington and Jefferson no revolution

Without the revolution no Constitution

Without the Constitution no republic

which ultimately freed everyone including blacks to be whatever their talent and effort allowed
Click to expand...

The only rational argument someone can make is this

That the rights recognized by the founders and GUARANTEED by the Bill of Right are sound but those rights should have applied to ALL humans in the USA, not just White land owning men.

The argument against the founders is not the SCOPE of the rights they recognized but merely the coverage.
 
SCitizen said:
United Kingdom has Freedom of Speech -- but Freedom of Speech is not freedom from consequences:

View attachment 67209456
Click to expand...

there should be no government imposed consequences for exercising freedom of speech short of disclosing classified information or libel. However, if one goes around screaming terms like "nigger" or similar, one should not expect blacks to do business with you or hire you etc.
 
Mac77 said:
Progressives in America are catching up with the anti free speech brits

Lets hope we still have free speech in the future
Click to expand...

No one is against Free Speech. Progressives believe that everyone has a right to Free Speech. They are even willing to give platform to those who disagree with them:
Cell.jpg
 
TurtleDude said:
The only rational argument someone can make is this

That the rights recognized by the founders and GUARANTEED by the Bill of Right are sound but those rights should have applied to ALL humans in the USA, not just White land owning men.

The argument against the founders is not the SCOPE of the rights they recognized but merely the coverage.
Click to expand...

The Founders created the nation that retained slavery at first but eventually freed the slaves

Otherwise we may never have become one nation under God but two nations instead
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom