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Is Obamacare as we know it doomed?

Is Obamacare as we know it doomed?

  • Yes, there will be a total repeal of Obamacare

    Votes: 4 12.9%

  • Yes, Obamacare will see a major overhaul while maintaining its Obama honoring brand

    Votes: 6 19.4%

  • Yes, Obamacare will be replaced by a British/Canadian style single-payer system

    Votes: 6 19.4%

  • Obamacare will remain. People who are not enrolling will enroll due to fines bring down premiums

    Votes: 6 19.4%

  • Other/explain

    Votes: 9 29.0%
  • Total voters
    31
Patrickt said:
For liberals, that's true. I'm uninsured and I pay my own way. And besides, it's so much better for taxpayers to pay for others when they're forced to. Forcing people excites liberals.
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Do you have high-deductible insurance for catastrophic events, or are you gambling that nothing bad will ever happen?
 
RetiredNSmilin said:
The mess called ObamaCare is what happens when only one side shoves something down the throat of the other side.

If it is to be fixed, then COMPROMISE is needed on both sides of the aisle.

Even the most ardent supporters can see it is a mess, but will ride it right over the cliff in their refusal to admit they were wrong.

That is what happens when NO COMPROMISE is used.

We as Americans do not like to admit it, but we are masters of political compromise. That is the only way you can get anything done in this republic.

Look what happened when there was no compromise. We got that mess called ObamaCare.
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You can thank Harry Reid. Republican amendments went to die in his desk.

The Democrats own ObamaCare and the mess that follows, lock, stock, and barrel.

Consider that only one of the present presidential candidates wants to double down on it, dump 1/2 the treasury into it, keeping it afloat.
 
RetiredUSN said:
Let single payer pass for all I care.

The rest of America will finally get to see what veterans have to put up with............... and good for them! ;)
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And if the Democrats pass that this time around, they'll be known for exactly that. Welcome VA level care for everyone!
(After all, future performance predicted by current performance - THe VA is the US federal governmnet running single payer healthcare).

And I don't agree with how the VA, or the federal government, treats Veterans. It's absolutely horrid, and unconscionable, and speaks poorly of us a a nation and a society.
 
radcen said:
Do you have high-deductible insurance for catastrophic events, or are you gambling that nothing bad will ever happen?
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Neither. Thanks to the liberal government, I can't buy private health insurance. I am not eligible for Medicare and have to buy it and won't. I live in Mexico and pay for my health care. Unlike liberals who have someone else paying for them, at 75 years of age there is a definite limit on how much I will pay to keep living.
 
Patrickt said:
Neither. Thanks to the liberal government, I can't buy private health insurance. I am not eligible for Medicare and have to buy it and won't. I live in Mexico and pay for my health care. Unlike liberals who have someone else paying for them, at 75 years of age there is a definite limit on how much I will pay to keep living.
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I knew you live in Mexico, but presumed you were still an American citizen. Are you speaking of the Mexican liberal government, or the American liberal government?
 
ACA... AKA Obamacare will/is collapsing under its own weight and cost. As reported by the Obama administration, enrollment which was predicted for 2017 at 21 million + is now predicted to be only 13 million. Those 13 million who have coverage under the ACA are those who are sick and need help. Those who are not sick are okay to pay the cheaper way out in fines. The Obama administration also has said premiums will raise an average of 22-25% in 2017 with higher co-pays. Good news 13 new insurance companies have signed up...bad news 87 insurance companies plan to or have dropped out leaving many with few or insurance.

Obama health plan hit by double-digit premium hikes | Tri-City Herald
 
RetiredNSmilin said:
The mess called ObamaCare is what happens when only one side shoves something down the throat of the other side.

If it is to be fixed, then COMPROMISE is needed on both sides of the aisle.

Even the most ardent supporters can see it is a mess, but will ride it right over the cliff in their refusal to admit they were wrong.

That is what happens when NO COMPROMISE is used.

We as Americans do not like to admit it, but we are masters of political compromise. That is the only way you can get anything done in this republic.

Look what happened when there was no compromise. We got that mess called ObamaCare.
Click to expand...

I agree with you for the most part. But NEITHER side is willing to compromise and NEITHER side is willing to budge. Most of the time it seems like the only reason one side rejects something is because the other side proposed it. And this is not just with politicians. Partisan supporters are no better.
 
Smeagol said:
I've always thought The Afford Care Act better known as Obamacare was a nice effort of had to changed. I'm a Republican had have also always believed it would have been changed already except for the fact that Republicans in Congress, driven by the agenda set by conservative media pundits, have insisted on a letting the American people suffer financially while further insisting on the "total repeal" of the Obamacare brand instead of working modifying the Affordable Care Act in the spirit of cooperation so that the President is humiliated. Now even Bill Clinton is criticizing it and Health and Human Services is predicting a 25% increase in premiums. Do you think Obamacare is seeing its last days?
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America needs healthcare reform. We have a broken system that is not working. That was the case before and it is the case now. Obamacare or the affordable care act has not changed much of anything, it only gave it a name. Health care needs to be affordable to all Americans. You don't make healthcare affordable by shoving high cost insurance down people's throats.

When medical bills are the leading cause of Americans going bankrupt then healthcare is a problem.
 
Smeagol said:
The silver bullet with Obamacare was that there would be 100% compliance. A fantasy that failed. If it had not failed, premiums would have gone down. Again, I don't think health insurance ever needed to be a part of it. People don't need insurance, they need healthcare.
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Even with a 100% compliance I doubt there would be enough funds coming in to keep premiums down.
 
radcen said:
My memory tells me that it was sold to the American public as not being a tax, but when it went to the Supreme Court they argued it was a tax because even they knew it would be ruled unconstitutional otherwise. Please tell me if I am incorrect.

I agree with your statement otherwise. I believe it should be unconstitutional either way.
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IIRC, it was only CJ Roberts that "invented" the taxation power for validation of the PPACA - the other justices were split 4/4 but based on the power to regulate commerce. Use of the 16A (the power to tax income from all sources) was stretched past the breaking point in order to base taxation of income on how it was not later spent.

I suppose that same "constitutional" logic could be used to tax (penalize without due process?) those that do not own/use any manner of government mandated (approved?) private goods/services like "green" cars or solar/wind power generation supplements. Once the federal government gives itself a new power (to penalize folks, via the tax code, for not buying "good" stuff) it is bound to be applied to more cases.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
IIRC, it was only CJ Roberts that "invented" the taxation power for validation of the PPACA - the other justices were split 4/4 but based on the power to regulate commerce. Use of the 16A (the power to tax income from all sources) was stretched past the breaking point in order to base taxation of income on how it was not later spent.

I suppose that same "constitutional" logic could be used to tax (penalize without due process?) those that do not own/use any manner of government mandated (approved?) private goods/services like "green" cars or solar/wind power generation supplements. Once the federal government gives itself a new power (to penalize folks, via the tax code, for not buying "good" stuff) it is bound to be applied to more cases.
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As a committed slippery slope theorist, I fear just that.
 
eohrnberger said:
And if the Democrats pass that this time around, they'll be known for exactly that. Welcome VA level care for everyone!
(After all, future performance predicted by current performance - THe VA is the US federal governmnet running single payer healthcare).

And I don't agree with how the VA, or the federal government, treats Veterans. It's absolutely horrid, and unconscionable, and speaks poorly of us a a nation and a society.
Click to expand...

VA is more of a single provider system than just a single payer system. Under a single payer system any provider can accept that single payer's rates and provide the goods/services to the covered user. VA, to the best of my knowledge, allows out of system/area treatment only if approved by the "primary" VA care provider facility.
 
Obama care was designed from the beginning to fail. It's designed purpose was to get more people to support a socialist system. The left does not really care about fixing problems with the medical care, they only want to push the socialist option. If they really cared, then they would go back and repeal laws which caused the massive surge in medical cost to begin with. I have posted the chart before, several times. Medical costs were comparable with many other countries prior to about 1975, with Germany actually have higher cost several times prior to that. Then, at that point, the cost just start skyrocketed. The left never looks at going back and repealing laws causing it, they only want to push towards socialism.
 
Smeagol said:
Agree.

I have no problem with profits but there are 2 huge problems with the present system.

1. The health insurance industry is the elephant in the living room and a needless middleman that's jacking up the costs.
2. Employer-based healthcare is ridiculous.



My idea: individually mandated annual memberships at hospitals, just like gym memberships. All healthcare needs are met there as needed with no additional costs. No collections issues because membership fees are tied to something we can't get out of such as payroll deducted but the individual chooses which hospital. Health insurance is carried by the hospital to cover catastrophic patient costs.
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I agree with both 1 and 2, tying it to employment is silly.

As for your plan it could be something viable, my only concern is some people wont really have a choice of hospital. The people that lve in middle of the woods, one stop sign town Kentucky dont really get a choice and their hospital would not be as good as the 10 in all our elbows and assholes touch city New York.

There would still have to be a partner of hospitals or all hospitals share a certain amount of national cross over insurance you know what I mean. Doesnt make your plan "bad" just means it would need some tweaking to insure good options and good care for all.
 
Smeagol said:
I've always thought The Afford Care Act better known as Obamacare was a nice effort of had to changed. I'm a Republican had have also always believed it would have been changed already except for the fact that Republicans in Congress, driven by the agenda set by conservative media pundits, have insisted on a letting the American people suffer financially while further insisting on the "total repeal" of the Obamacare brand instead of working modifying the Affordable Care Act in the spirit of cooperation so that the President is humiliated. Now even Bill Clinton is criticizing it and Health and Human Services is predicting a 25% increase in premiums. Do you think Obamacare is seeing its last days?
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I picked other. It will remain regardless if premiums go down.I doesn't matter who becomes president.Sure it will be a campaign issue until another issue comes up.Even if republicans got a veto proof majority in both the house and senate it will not be repealed.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
VA is more of a single provider system than just a single payer system. Under a single payer system any provider can accept that single payer's rates and provide the goods/services to the covered user. VA, to the best of my knowledge, allows out of system/area treatment only if approved by the "primary" VA care provider facility.
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Don't give the single payer guys any ideas.
Don't give the statists guys any ideas.
 
AGENT J said:
I agree with both 1 and 2, tying it to employment is silly.

As for your plan it could be something viable, my only concern is some people wont really have a choice of hospital. The people that lve in middle of the woods, one stop sign town Kentucky dont really get a choice and their hospital would not be as good as the 10 in all our elbows and assholes touch city New York.

There would still have to be a partner of hospitals or all hospitals share a certain amount of national cross over insurance you know what I mean. Doesnt make your plan "bad" just means it would need some tweaking to insure good options and good care for all.
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That's just the basic outline. There would need to be affiliate hospitals groups when traveling out of town, escrow components or something. I like provisions for groups of doctors to form companies people may choose even if they don't operate their own hospital but contract with hospitals for in-patient services when needed. I like incentivizing healthy lifestyle choices with premium rebates in November to serve as Christmas bonuses for being a non-smoker, non-drinker, works out regularly, meets target BMI, etc.
 
tres borrachos said:
Yup it's all about the costs. And the ACA did nothing to address that.
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I agree, but costs will never be addressed when you got a political party that hollers about "death panels" every time anyone proposes we address costs.
 
One of the biggest problems with the ACA is that they dropped the public option. Had there been a public option, the older / sicker members that currently are driving up insurance costs across the board would have it as an option and premiums would be more reasonable for everyone else on the exchanges.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
I agree, but costs will never be addressed when you got a political party that hollers about "death panels" every time anyone proposes we address costs.
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Luckily that idiot Sarah Palin is irrelevant. Granted I don't follow every Republican in Congress but are any of those in power saying there are death panels?
 
tres borrachos said:
Luckily that idiot Sarah Palin is irrelevant. Granted I don't follow every Republican in Congress but are any of those in power saying there are death panels?
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At the time yes. Neither party is willing to do what it takes to get costs under control because its political suicide to do so.
 
DVSentinel said:
Obama care was designed from the beginning to fail. It's designed purpose was to get more people to support a socialist system. The left does not really care about fixing problems with the medical care, they only want to push the socialist option. If they really cared, then they would go back and repeal laws which caused the massive surge in medical cost to begin with. I have posted the chart before, several times. Medical costs were comparable with many other countries prior to about 1975, with Germany actually have higher cost several times prior to that. Then, at that point, the cost just start skyrocketed. The left never looks at going back and repealing laws causing it, they only want to push towards socialism.
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Let me get this straight...why did a super majority of congressional democrats in 2010 vote for the ACA, when they could at the time voted for single payer system, over a powerless republican party to have it covered entirely by your pay roll tax and subsidized by the government in more hidden taxes under the guise of having it fail? Besides putting millions out of work in the private sector and increasing public employment by million more?

I mean what could possible go wrong with that?
 
Smeagol said:
I've always thought The Afford Care Act better known as Obamacare was a nice effort of had to changed. I'm a Republican had have also always believed it would have been changed already except for the fact that Republicans in Congress, driven by the agenda set by conservative media pundits, have insisted on a letting the American people suffer financially while further insisting on the "total repeal" of the Obamacare brand instead of working modifying the Affordable Care Act in the spirit of cooperation so that the President is humiliated. Now even Bill Clinton is criticizing it and Health and Human Services is predicting a 25% increase in premiums. Do you think Obamacare is seeing its last days?
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Nope. There is one major poison pill.

The pre-existing condition issue,

There are enough patients and survivors out there that remember what it was like to have needed treatments stalled or omitted because of insurance companies exploiting pre-existing issues. All of a sudden moles documented in years past became reason to exclude serious skin cancer treatments causing life threatening delays. History of childhood asthma (with no treatment for 40 years) became a reason to refuse payment for pneumonia for someone in their 50s.....

I can tell you real life horror stories....a patient with "great" insurance had to take a $200,000 loan against her home in order get tried and true cancer treatment that the insurance company called "experimental" She got stuck with thousands of fees in order to make this loan. After a year (you know, the year that the insurance prayed she died to make the repayment go away) the insurance company finally paid. Her lawyer was a cancer patient that did the work pro-bono - otherwise she would have likely incurred thousands of dollars more.

I never thought ACA was an answer. It is a useful foot in the door.
 
Smeagol said:
Agree.

I have no problem with profits but there are 2 huge problems with the present system.

1. The health insurance industry is the elephant in the living room and a needless middleman that's jacking up the costs.
2. Employer-based healthcare is ridiculous.
.
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I wholeheartedly agree, especially with #1.
 
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