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Are you a Statist or an Anarchist?

Are you a Statist or an Anarchist?

  • Statist

    Votes: 8 72.7%

  • Anarchist

    Votes: 3 27.3%
  • Total voters
    11
Sherman123 said:
It comes from utility. There is no innate 'right' and we don't need one.
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So ignoring the consent of others and imposing yourself on them comes from utility? :lol: I have to admit that's a new one.
 
Henrin said:
So ignoring the consent of others and imposing yourself on them comes from utility? :lol: I have to admit that's a new one.
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Of course it can. There's societal utility in making Henrin pay taxes. Are we forcing him to pay taxes with the threat of prosecution? Yes. Do we have an innate right to do this? No. Why do we do it? Because it's useful and we make a consequentialist ethical justification.
 
Sherman123 said:
Of course it can. There's societal utility in making Henrin pay taxes. Are we forcing him to pay taxes with the threat of prosecution? Yes. Do we have an innate right to do this? No. Why do we do it? Because it's useful and we make a consequentialist ethical justification.
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Utility doesn't give birth to squat. Your theory is trash.
 
Henrin said:
Utility doesn't give birth to squat. Your theory is trash.
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Because it makes you mad. Because I'm telling you that our 'right' is because we've decided we have the 'right'. Because 'we' refers to the elements of society that support the continued existence of the state (almost all of us). Because it isn't the answer you wanted to hear. You wanted to engage in a flowery debate over rights and the reality is frustrating to someone of your persuasion.

Utility is at the bedrock of civilization.
 
Sherman123 said:
Because it makes you mad. Because I'm telling you that our 'right' is because we've decided we have the 'right'. Because 'we' refers to the elements of society that support the continued existence of the state (almost all of us). Because it isn't the answer you wanted to hear. You wanted to engage in a flowery debate over rights and the reality is frustrating to someone of your persuasion.

Utility is at the bedrock of civilization.
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Utility doesn't make someone the slave of your demands. Again, your theory is trash. All you're doing is rationalizing your aggressiveness by stating that it is best. Sorry, but that doesn't fly.
 
foadi said:
arent there a lot of ancapfags who make consequentialist arguments for teh anarky liek david friedman?
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I have never paid any mind to David Friedman, so I can't speak towards his arguments.
 
Henrin said:
Utility doesn't make someone the slave of your demands. Again, your theory is trash. All you're doing is rationalizing your aggressiveness by stating that it is best. Sorry, but that doesn't fly.
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Because it is. You pay taxes don't you? The argument for why you should pay taxes is that it's ultimately of the greatest benefit to society, and we like society. Our 'right' to tax you stems entirely from that.

Appealing to what objective right allows us to do that is futile. There isn't one---and we don't care. It hasn't stopped the onward momentum of civilized society for thousands of years.
 
I'm a realist. I find both anarchists of all stripes and hard-core statists of all stripes to have little grasp on reality.
 
Sherman123 said:
Because it is. You pay taxes don't you? The argument for why you should pay taxes is that it's ultimately of the greatest benefit to society, and we like society. Our 'right' to tax you stems entirely from that.

Appealing to what objective right allows us to do that is futile. There isn't one---and we don't care. It hasn't stopped the onward momentum of civilized society for thousands of years.
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I don't imagine you realize how stupid your argument is. It's basically the argument of a parent without an argument. You know the argument, don't you? The child comes to his father and asks him why and instead of having a rational answer to provide the child the father just returns with "because I said so".

I also enjoy your use of the word civilized when speaking towards forcing others under your foot. It has to be one of the most useless ways to use the term imaginable.
 
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Viking11 said:
Statist - you believe that the use and threat of violence and coercion is necessary to maintain a civilized society.

Anarchist - you believe that the use and threat of violence and coercion is NOT necessary to maintain a civilized society.
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Is there no middle ground in this obvious propaganda view? I'm neither statist nor anarchist.
 
Viking11 said:
Statist - you believe that the use and threat of violence and coercion is necessary to maintain a civilized society.

Anarchist - you believe that the use and threat of violence and coercion is NOT necessary to maintain a civilized society.

statist-poster.jpg


For-centuries.jpg


brochure-trifold-inside-bleed-final.png


https://mises.org/library/spontaneous-order-capitalist-case-stateless-society
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I've seen anarchy.

Almost any political system is preferable.
 
Viking11 said:
Statist - you believe that the use and threat of violence and coercion is necessary to maintain a civilized society.

Anarchist - you believe that the use and threat of violence and coercion is NOT necessary to maintain a civilized society.

statist-poster.jpg


For-centuries.jpg


brochure-trifold-inside-bleed-final.png


https://mises.org/library/spontaneous-order-capitalist-case-stateless-society
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That must explain why we never see anarchists using threats of violence and violence to get their way. Of course, I didn't answer the silly poll.
 
Stupid poll thread is stupid
 
foadi said:
If you can't trust people, then why would you want to give certain people power over you?
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Maybe because we are a Republic and that is how Republics work. FYI true democracy is not possible in a large Nation, and whether you like it or not you would still have to give in to what the masses want. Mankind has not evolved far enough that rules do not have to be laws.
 
Henrin said:
I don't imagine you realize how stupid your argument is. It's basically the argument of a parent without an argument. You know the argument, don't you? The child comes to his father and asks him why and instead of having a rational answer to provide the child the father just returns with "because I said so".

I also enjoy your use of the word civilized when speaking towards forcing others under your foot. It has to be one of the most useless ways to use the term imaginable.
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Because I said so---exactly! Because it serves a greater good that we've collectively defined as important, and because we have the strength to force you to do it. And that will never change.
 
Are you a Statist or an Anarchist?
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me, i'm just passing through.

*tips hat
 
Sherman123 said:
Because I said so---exactly! Because it serves a greater good that we've collectively defined as important, and because we have the strength to force you to do it. And that will never change.
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So basically you have nothing to defend your case and I have no reason to accept anything.

Also, might makes right is always a ****ty argument.
 
Henrin said:
I'm going to guess that you want money to be centralized, right? You wouldn't support a market using some privately operated currency, correct? I also imagine as a liberal you support the government controlling international trade and passing regulations on business. What about interest rates? Do you support the government setting those?

Ok, so what about social policy? Should the government concern itself with that?

Do you think the term statist only refers to the extreme?
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You did see the words "false dicohotomy," right?
 
Casper said:
Maybe because we are a Republic and that is how Republics work. FYI true democracy is not possible in a large Nation, and whether you like it or not you would still have to give in to what the masses want. Mankind has not evolved far enough that rules do not have to be laws.
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Don't quote my post if you're not going to respond to the question.
 
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