As a Christian, can you support Hillary? [W: 207]

Re: As a Christian, can you support Hillary?

Gathomas88 said:

Granted, Trump's not a whole lot better on a personal level. However, he does seem to be the lesser of the two evils here, if only because his party does not share the values of the DNC.

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Yeah, I love this one. So you're asserting that the Republican Party's "values" are more "Christian" than the Democrats'. What "values" would those include? Not caring if people don't have health insurance? Placing the interests of the already rich and powerful over the interests of people who weren't born into luxury? Trashing the planet in pursuit of riches?
Denying minorities the right to vote because they will probably vote against you because you support the existing unfair power structure?

I read the New Testament. It seems that Conservatives have Jesus's message exactly backwards. They are all about coddling the rich and the powerful. And just haven't any time for those who are less fortunate. Jesus wasn't into comforting the already comfortable.

It's a pretty interesting insight into human psychology to observe that they are always the ones waving their Bibles in our faces.
Among the developed nations, the US has the highest percentage of its population attending Church. It's also the best country to be rich in and the worst to be poor in. Hypocrisy much?

Were there ever a "Second Coming," conservatives would be the last people on Earth to recognize Jesus.

Re: As a Christian, can you support Hillary?

TurtleDude said:

I couldn't care less. if Hillary and Trump are good Christians, it might be time to become a satanic cult member

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Hmm but what if they were satanic cult members? Time to become a good Christian?

Re: As a Christian, can you support Hillary?

chromium said:

Hmm but what if they were satanic cult members? Time to become a good Christian?

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enlist with the starship troopers

Re: As a Christian, can you support Hillary?

Gathomas88 said:

In a word, no. Hillary's a horrible candidate for any self-respecting Christian to choose on multiple different levels. She's openly corrupt, utterly lacking in any sort of guiding Christian ethic, and she not only supports the mass institutionalized murder of unborn children, but would enact policies to expand the atrocity, and make it cheaper and easier to perform. Frankly, even beyond that, her whole party, and the ideology upon which it is presently founded, is ACTIVELY anti-Christian and anti-religious, being quietly disdainful of the faithful at best, and openly combatant towards them, while simultaneously seeking new and ever more insidious ways to shut them out of public discourse, and punish them for holding beliefs which the establishment finds to be unacceptable, at worst.

Granted, Trump's not a whole lot better on a personal level. However, he does seem to be the lesser of the two evils here, if only because his party does not share the values of the DNC.

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That's pretty funny that you consider the entire democratic party to be anti christian/jewish/muslim when there's like all of 0 openly atheist in the entire congress. Absolutely none are "openly combative" towards religion, as in directly insulting it. None have the balls to do so, for one.

Not all of the religious consider the unborn to be 'alive' in a spiritual much less physical sense. That is simply your opinion

Re: As a Christian, can you support Hillary?

d0gbreath said:

Trump is so humble? We are talking about The Donald Trump, aren't we?

<don't know if sarcasm?>

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I would call it "satire". And damned good satire at that!

Re: As a Christian, can you support Hillary?

Deuce said:

If you believe Muslims have the right to practice their religion in the United States, you can't be a real Christian!

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That is one of the most interesting statements posted here in some time. Before I dismiss it as "out there", I want to understand this.... Please give me biblical references to support your assertions. (Not-withstanding the fact that the United States is not mentioned in the Bible).... I don't believe there is anything in the Bible that condones Christians for allowing others to practice their religion; though there is plenty to condemn Christians for participating in other religions.

Re: As a Christian, can you support Hillary?

jpn said:

Yeah, I love this one. So you're asserting that the Republican Party's "values" are more "Christian" than the Democrats'.

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Without question.

What "values" would those include?

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Not promoting an agenda of slaughtering the unborn en masse in the interests of personal and economic convenience, perhaps? Not promoting a culture of general Godlessness and wanton immorality?

Oh! How about not actively seeking to undermine the influence of the Christian faith in in favor of secularist worship of the state instead?

Not caring if people don't have health insurance?

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By all means, please point me to where it says in the Bible, "thy government shalt strong-arm thou into paying for an inefficient and power hungry Socialist bureaucracy of healthcare regardless of whether thou wants it or not." :roll:

Placing the interests of the already rich and powerful over the interests of people who weren't born into luxury?

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This coming from a supporter of a political party primarily run by, and for, control freak elitist blue bloods and haughty ivory tower "armchair revolutionaries" who basically think it is their mission in life to con and manipulate the unwashed masses into bringing about an impossible quasi-Marxist Utopia regardless of whether the common man wants it or not?

It is to laugh!

Just because the Dems use minorities and the poor for their own electoral purposes does not mean that they actually have their best interests at heart. A lot of the Left's policies only serve to perpetuate the poverty and desperation of the underclasses, in point of fact.

Trashing the planet in pursuit of riches?

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Please, the vast majority of the Left's supposedly "environmentalist" legislation is actually just Socialist legislation meant to either bring the private sector under greater government control, or hamstring the First World in comparison to the Third in the name of some hairbrained scheme of "social justice." That's without even getting into the TRUE environmentalist nutcases on the Left; blatant anti-humanists, who honestly wouldn't have a problem in the world watching millions (if not BILLIONS) of people die horribly just to save a few stupid trees.

You want to save the planet? Support actually workable solutions, like nuclear power, and finding new ways to produce greater amounts of food with the same or lesser resources.

Denying minorities the right to vote because they will probably vote against you because you support the existing unfair power structure?

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We require minorities to actually follow the law, if that's what you mean.

We're certainly not going to turn a blind-eye to non-citizens voting illegally just because they happen to improve your electoral chances.

I read the New Testament. It seems that Conservatives have Jesus's message exactly backwards.

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Again, by all means, feel free to show me where in the New Testament it says that one should be a Godless, nihilist, pan-sexual state-worshiping pawn of an all-powerful, and all controlling, Neo-Marxist welfare state.

I'm more than happy to wait. lol

Re: As a Christian, can you support Hillary?

Tanngrisnir said:

And, most unfortunately, a great deal of the evangelicals I've met in my life simply don't know the bible.

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Reminds me of that study that concluded that atheists know more of the bible than churchgoers

If we're talking of "uncle tom's cabin" days, that would make sense, since one group can read and the other can only be read *to*, usually by those with extreme agendas

But i guess it's still the same, modern priests still have agendas, and it's not that their flock can't read the bible at all, but can't be bothered to

Re: As a Christian, can you support Hillary?

Gathomas88 said:

Without question.



Not promoting an agenda of slaughtering the unborn en masse in the interests of personal and economic convenience, perhaps? Not promoting a culture of general Godlessness and wanton immorality?

Oh! How about not actively seeking to undermine the influence of the Christian faith in in favor of secularist worship of the state instead?



By all means, please point me to where it says in the Bible, "thy government shalt strong-arm thou into paying for an inefficient and power hungry Socialist bureaucracy of healthcare regardless of whether thou wants it or not." :roll:



This coming from a supporter of a political party primarily run by, and for, control freak elitist blue bloods and haughty ivory tower "armchair revolutionaries" who basically think it is their mission in life to con and manipulate the unwashed masses into bringing about an impossible quasi-Marxist Utopia regardless of whether the common man wants it or not?

It is to laugh!

Just because the Dems use minorities and the poor for their own electoral purposes does not mean that they actually have their best interests at heart. A lot of the Left's policies only serve to perpetuate the poverty and desperation of the underclasses, in point of fact.



Please, the vast majority of the Left's supposedly "environmentalist" legislation is actually just Socialist legislation meant to either bring the private sector under greater government control, or hamstring the First World in comparison to the Third in the name of some hairbrained scheme of "social justice." That's without even getting into the TRUE environmentalist nutcases on the Left; blatant anti-humanists, who honestly wouldn't have a problem in the world watching millions (if not BILLIONS) of people die horribly just to save a few stupid trees.

You want to save the planet? Support actually workable solutions, like nuclear power, and finding new ways to produce greater amounts of food with the same or lesser resources.



We require minorities to actually follow the law, if that's what you mean.

We're certainly not going to turn a blind-eye to non-citizens voting illegally just because they happen to improve your electoral chances.



Again, by all means, feel free to show me where in the New Testament it says that one should be a Godless, nihilist, pan-sexual state-worshiping pawn of an all-powerful, and all controlling, Neo-Marxist welfare state.

I'm more than happy to wait. lol

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I find it incredible that you actually believe all that extremist tosh.

Re: As a Christian, can you support Hillary?

chromium said:

That's pretty funny that you consider the entire democratic party to be anti christian/jewish/muslim when there's like all of 0 openly atheist in the entire congress. Absolutely none are "openly combative" towards religion, as in directly insulting it. None have the balls to do so, for one.

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Lol. "Openly" being the operative word. :roll:

Anyone who denies that the modern Left is overwhelmingly anti-Christian in both ideology and aim is either an unobservant imbecile or simply lying to you.

Not all of the religious consider the unborn to be 'alive' in a spiritual much less physical sense. That is simply your opinion

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The vast majority of Christian sects do consider it to be an evil enterprise. Historically, Christianity has been opposed to the practice for almost 2000 years.

Re: As a Christian, can you support Hillary?

Manc Skipper said:

I find it incredible that you actually believe all that extremist tosh.

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Boil away the fluff, the polish, and all the blatant lies, and I have accurately described the modern Left as it truly is; monstrous.

Hell! Seeing as how the subject is Christianity here, I'd be tempted to go so far as describing it as being outright Satanic.

Re: As a Christian, can you support Hillary?

Gathomas88 said:

Boil away the fluff, the polish, and all the blatant lies, and I have accurately described the modern Left as it truly is; monstrous.

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Because there is nothing monstrous about raping the land for profit, creating barren inhabitable waste, profit mongering, to excess. Endless war, yeah, not a thing wrong with it. The prosperity gospel, million dollar TV pastors, tax free! Yeah, if you wanna see monstrous, as a conservative, try the mirror.

Re: As a Christian, can you support Hillary?

Gathomas88 said:

Lol. "Openly" being the operative word. :roll:

Anyone who denies that the modern Left is overwhelmingly anti-Christian in both ideology and aim is either an unobservant imbecile or simply lying to you.



The vast majority of Christian sects do consider it to be an evil enterprise. Historically, Christianity has been opposed to the practice for almost 2000 years.

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Oh sure, because they don't vote for hateful trash like "RFRA." Well, where's your contempt for the thrice married billionaire Donald? You only mention Hillary as if much of anything can top his sins (that we know of). Btw, i bet he's cool with abortion

I don't need to rely on anyone to tell me anything. I only need to look at data - with over 70% of the country identifying christian and most presbyterians, evangelicals, and yes, *catholics* voting democrat in 2012, i am pretty certain the politicians have no such aim. It is if anything atheists who should be frustrated, since they have NO representation. Just like i criticize the "leftist" party for whoring out to muslims (3:1 vote dem), it took them far too long to show any support for gay rights and still none for atheists, and religion is the reason for that. So you're barking up the wrong tree here entirely

U.S. religious groups and their political leanings | Pew Research Center

Quite a lot of modern abortions would not even be understood as possible 2000 years ago for the bible to even address this, yet you all get hysterical about "morning after" pills and such just the same

Re: As a Christian, can you support Hillary?

markjs said:

But you can get on board with Trump, who has never asked for forgiveness? Wow, selective "christianity" how much do you pay for that plan?

Is that the one where, once "saved" you can continue on raping, plundering and pillaging with blanket sin forgiveness?

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Trump's ethos and policies are more in lock-step with the bible. This thread is about Hillary not Donald.

Re: As a Christian, can you support Hillary?

markjs said:

Because there is nothing monstrous about raping the land for profit, creating barren inhabitable waste, profit mongering, to excess. Endless war, yeah, not a thing wrong with it. The prosperity gospel, million dollar TV pastors, tax free! Yeah, if you wanna see monstrous, as a conservative, try the mirror.

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It would quite amusing, if not for its tragic implications at times (such as slavery), to watch the god of capitalism so interwoven with the god of "easier for a camel to go thru a needle"

Re: As a Christian, can you support Hillary?

American "chistianity" and hypocrisy are synonymous.

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Re: As a Christian, can you support Hillary?

markjs said:

Because there is nothing monstrous about raping the land for profit, creating barren inhabitable waste, profit mongering, to excess. Endless war, yeah, not a thing wrong with it. The prosperity gospel, million dollar TV pastors, tax free! Yeah, if you wanna see monstrous, as a conservative, try the mirror.

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Out of curiosity, you are aware that FDR was a great admirer of Mussolini, who actually used a lot of the dictator's policies and ideology as inspiration for his own, correct? He basically attempted an authoritarian state take-over of private industry throughout the 1930s and 1940s, while he simultaneously attempted to stack courts with his cronies, and let the FBI under Hoover overrun Constitutional liberties to the point where they were really only a step away from being an American Gestapo.

Hell! The United States even had a program for the forced sterilization of "undersirables" - not terribly unlike that of Nazi Germany - in place during the "Golden Age of Progressivism" over which the modern Left tends to wax so nostalgic.

chromium said:

Oh sure, because they don't vote for hateful trash like "RFRA." Well, where's your contempt for the thrice married billionaire Donald? You only mention Hillary as if much of anything can top his sins (that we know of). Btw, i bet he's cool with abortion

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Trump was a Liberal Democrat for decades. At heart, I'm sure he still is... At least with regards to his morality and social views.



That's one of the major reasons I don't want to vote for him.

I don't need to rely on anyone to tell me anything. I only need to look at data - with over 70% of the country identifying christian and most presbyterians, evangelicals, and yes, *catholics* voting democrat in 2012, i am pretty certain the politicians have no such aim. It is if anything atheists who should be frustrated, since they have NO representation. Just like i criticize the "leftist" party for whoring out to muslims (3:1 vote dem), it took them far too long to show any support for gay rights and still none for atheists, and religion is the reason for that. So you're barking up the wrong tree here entirely

U.S. religious groups and their political leanings | Pew Research Center

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Want to guess how often most of those supposed "Christians" actually attend services? Yearly, or less, by and large.

In other words, they're basically "Christians in name only." They claim the title, but it has little to no impact on how they actually live their lives. For that very reason, their children aren't even going that far, and are increasingly coming out as simply being atheists.

That's exactly the trend the modern Left wants to see continue. They pay some limited lip-service (though... Even then, it's quite rare) to the sentiment of being vaguely "religious" in the hope that it sways people who simply aren't paying attention, but are generally intolerant of actual religion when it goes against their agenda. They're basically trying to throw it out of public discourse entirely, while dreaming whistfully about the day when (they hope) it simply becomes extinct.

That is their goal. There is ultimately no room for any "God" other than Leftist ideology itself within the realm of the Left Wing agenda.

Quite a lot of modern abortions would not even be understood as possible 2000 years ago for the bible to even address this, yet you all get hysterical about "morning after" pills and such just the same

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Abortion, while dangerous, has existed since pre-historic times. Christianity has always been generally opposed to it.

Re: As a Christian, can you support Hillary?

Gathomas88 said:

Just because the Dems use minorities and the poor for their own electoral purposes does not mean that they actually have their best interests at heart. A lot of the Left's policies only serve to perpetuate the poverty and desperation of the underclasses, in point of fact.

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Well this much is true, although (after being pushed to the limit by an avowed 'socialist') their candidate is starting to throw out some token policy like "free college" that just might not benefit her own friends more than the citizens

Gathomas88 said:

We require minorities to actually follow the law, if that's what you mean.

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LOL it's completely after the north carolina butchery that "open carry" are in reality only open carry for whites. And that only blacks are given instant death penalty without even a trial for the 'crime' of not getting out of the car immediately

It's to the point if i were black and saw sirens behind me, i might just floor it because i'll know if i'm stopped i'm going to be shot regardless

Gathomas88 said:

We're certainly not going to turn a blind-eye to non-citizens voting illegally just because they happen to improve your electoral chances.

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The odds of successful voter fraud are so microscopic that no one who actually supports democracy can take your position that millions of fewer voters who can't get off work in time is the better option! So tell us, are you more a fan of the chinese electoral system?

Gathomas88 said:

Again, by all means, feel free to show me where in the New Testament it says that one should be a Godless, nihilist, pan-sexual state-worshiping pawn of an all-powerful, and all controlling, Neo-Marxist welfare state.

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nihilist? Ok, i know these terms are all interchangeable to people like you who have no idea what they mean, so i won't take offense, just recommend you stop posting while hopelessly behind

Re: As a Christian, can you support Hillary?

Gathomas88 said:

Boil away the fluff, the polish, and all the blatant lies, and I have accurately described the modern Left as it truly is; monstrous.

Hell! Seeing as how the subject is Christianity here, I'd be tempted to go so far as describing it as being outright Satanic.

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markjs said:

American "chistianity" and hypocrisy are synonymous.

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And there you have it ladies and gents, two perfect examples of what's wrong with politics today. Two views that are completely asinine, biased, dishonest, delusional and void of any intellectual reasoning. Two sides of the same hysterically extremists coin. Views like the ones above are exactly the type of nonsensical views that cloud the water. Luckily the majority of people are smart enough to see right through them, we may not be the loudest but we are the more honest and educated majority.

Re: As a Christian, can you support Hillary?

chromium said:

It's to the point if i were black and saw sirens behind me, i might just floor it because i'll know if i'm stopped i'm going to be shot regardless

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Annnnnd... This attitude is exactly why so many people wind up getting shot by cops to begin with. :roll:

Trust me, it happens to white people as well as blacks.

The odds of successful voter fraud are so microscopic that no one who actually supports democracy can take your position that millions of fewer voters who can't get off work in time is the better option!

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I'm, frankly, not even sure what you're talking about here.

Again, however, the intent behind most such laws is to simply ensure that people follow the law. For some bizarre reason, particularly with regards to things like voter IDs, a lot of people on the Left simply have difficulty understanding the difference between citizens, and non-citizens (most likely because non-citizens vote for their candidates, and the Left doesn't want this to change).

nihilist? Ok, i know these terms are all interchangeable to people like you who have no idea what they mean, so i won't take offense, just recommend you stop posting while hopelessly behind

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Moral Relativism, the go-to philosophy of the Modern Left, is, ultimately, a form of "Godless nihilism." I, quite frankly, don't care if any of the sophists on the Left happen to disagree.

Re: As a Christian, can you support Hillary?

Gathomas88 said:

Want to guess how often most of those supposed "Christians" actually attend services? Yearly, or less, by and large.

In other words, they're basically "Christians in name only." They claim the title, but it has little to no impact on how they actually live their lives. For that very reason, their children aren't even going that far, and are increasingly coming out as simply being atheists.

That's exactly the trend the modern Left wants to see continue. They pay some limited lip-service (though... Even then it's quite rare) to the sentiment of being vaguely "religious," but are generally intolerant of actual religion when it goes against their agenda. They're basically trying to throw it out of public discourse entirely, while dreaming whistfully about the day when (they hope) it becomes extinct entirely.

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About half attend regularly but no....their agenda is aligned with their voters. It is the catholics/presbyterians/evangelicals who have changed and therefore changed the agenda. Those in power could not care less whether they have to revert to theocracy, like Clinton I (who had religious advisers in every meeting, passed the federal "RFRA" and "DOMA"), or they can repeal "DADT" and try to pass "ENDA." It's all the same to Hillary. You look for evidence of atheist-nihilist aims or whatever the hell in her speeches and votes? LOL. She would do exactly like her husband did if it got her elected. Blame your fellow christians if anything

Re: As a Christian, can you support Hillary?

Funny how the OP specifically said this wasn't about Trump and then people, too weak in position to stand on the premise, started talking about Trump

Re: As a Christian, can you support Hillary?

chromium said:

About half attend regularly but no....their agenda is aligned with their voters. It is the catholics/presbyterians/evangelicals who have changed and therefore changed the agenda. Those in power could not care less whether they have to revert to theocracy, like Clinton I (who had religious advisers in every meeting, passed the federal "RFRA" and "DOMA"), or they can repeal "DADT" and try to pass "ENDA." It's all the same to Hillary. You look for evidence of atheist-nihilist aims or whatever the hell in her speeches and votes? LOL. She would do exactly like her husband did if it got her elected. Blame your fellow christians if anything

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Again, by and large, they are NOT "Christians," nor does the Democratic party in any sense cater to Christians. They cater to those of Left Wing sensibilities, and uneducated minorities who simply don't know any better by making a lot of blatantly empty promises. Those groups simply happen to overlap every now and then.

In any case, you can think what you want. However, if think people like Hillary Clinton, Barrack Obama, or Al Gore have anything but contempt for the Christian religion and its values, you're dreaming.

The fact of the matter remains that the ideology of the modern Left is basically anathema to Christianity.

Re: As a Christian, can you support Hillary?

Gathomas88 said:

Again, by and large, they are NOT "Christians," nor does the Democratic party in any sense cater to Christians. They cater to those of Left Wing sensibilities, and uneducated minorities who simply don't know any better by making a lot of blatantly empty promises. Those groups simply happen to overlap every now and then.

In any case, you can think what you want. However, if think people like Hillary Clinton, Barrack Obama, or Al Gore have anything but contempt for the Christian religion and its values, you're dreaming.

The fact of the matter remains that the ideology of the modern Left is basically anathema to Christianity.

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You can say the same about the republican party then since half of their voters don't attend church regularly either. They just get all enraged about **** they don't understand. You should relate well to this

I think Obama is atheist or agnostic but that has **** all to do with what you're accusing him of. Seriously listening to you it's like he wants to line up all catholics in the tool shed out back to be shot. In any case, you're just carrying on about distant secret agendas and the like with no actual evidence, this belongs in CT

Re: As a Christian, can you support Hillary?

markjs said:

If you're such a judge of other people, that's not being very "christian", at least by any measurement I've ever seen of it. Even the bible acknowledges that life begins at breath. If you can support a con artist like Trump, then being "christian" means very little to you IMO. "War against baby in the womb", damn you are so full of your own **** rhetoric it's unreal!

Try pulling the plank out of your own eye before condemning the actions of others? Naw, never, too "christian" for that clearly....

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Any chance you could tell me what line that was? It would be awful useful later on for me.